This doesn't sound good...

[enchantmentdivi]

So glad he's doing better! Would love to hear his story, no judgement given. Just glad another diver didn't pass away...

I've been following this thread every day since day 1--I am so very glad to hear that Kirby is doing better.

I would love to hear the details of what happened as well. I think something can be learned from every incident/accident. So far, folks have been minding their manners, and hopefully, that would continue if the discussion continued. I understand if he wishes the details to remain private, but if not, what happened?...what's the prognosis?....what's involved in the recovery process?....time frame?

[shavedheadphil]

Kirby had a set back yesterday, looks like a blood clot went to his lungs. I'm planning on heading up there either today or tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I know what happened but I'm gonna let Kirby tell his own story unless he wants me to post it. He's been on some pretty heavy painkillers and I want to make sure the story comes out as true as it can. Not to sure about the recovery process as it changes each day. He has some damage to his lungs and until he gets off the painkillers its hard to tell the extent of the damage. He was moving around with the aid of a walker and eating solid foods. He's talking about some vision loss but the doctors are pretty sure that it will clear up. I would like to thank everyone for all the support and keeping your posts positive and without speculation. Hopefully he'll be back on the board and in the water soon!

[Huskychemist]

Sorry to hear about the setback. I'm sending positive thoughts to Kirby!

[dwashbur]

Continued prayers for his recovery.

[shavedheadphil]

Spent about 5 hrs yesterday with Kirby. Talked to him about what happened and he gave me permission to let everyone know. I typed everything into a word document as I heard it, so hopefully i got it all down right. I spoke to his Dr before I talked to him so thats written down first. I'm sorry if its all jumbled and out of order but, Hey, I'm an Infantryman not a college guy!

Pulmonary embolism in his lungs and legs. Field of vision in his right eye is diminished but could recover in 3months. His left eye has reduced vision. He had a stroke…. Not sure of when it happened. He is recognizing things happening to him and tells the staff how to treat him. Years of experience as a medic in the army and as an EMT/LPN have taught him symptoms and what to look for.
He’s on Coumadin (blood thinner) and it looks like that will continue for 6 months.
He spent 4 hrs. In the chamber to 160 ft. he suffer a big hit with the DCS.
He was unaware of taking water into his lungs.
He states that he did not run out of air. But somehow, he got water into his lungs.
He is in quite a bit of chest pain and his back hurts.

Kirby states that was doing a normal “Kirby dive” At Alki Beach.
He suffered a “deep water black out” and a beeping sound woke him up. He was at 174 ft. when he realized that he had been at depth (212) for about 20 mins. He looked at his gauge and realized that he had less than 200 PSI left in his back gas. He did an emergency ascent to 24 ft. switching to 50/50 at 50 ft. he was struggling with his buoyancy control due to empty tanks. He switched over to 100% at 20 ft. and was having a lot of trouble staying down with all the empty tanks. He surfaced and the Water Taxi crew pulled him out of the water. He states that his rescuer jumped in without an exposure suit to get him out.
Now, lets talk about the donation money. Kirby states he has Insurance and a great job as a firefighter/EMT. they are not hurting for money at this time. He is thankful for everyone that gave but he wants us to hold the money for now and see if he's going to recover enough to get his job back. He is very concerned about being blind and continuing his life as he did before the accident.If he recovers he want to donate all the money to a charity for the Firemans Chaplians organization. He refuses for the money to be spent on food and room fees. "That money came from peoples hearts and its going to a good cause".

Kirby is one heck of a guy, I love him, even though he took some risks and did some crazy things. Thanks to all here reading, supporting and praying.

[lurkerdude]

I just wanted to clarify what Kirby said yesterday to Phil and I re:the donations recieved on the the razrfund so far. He said that at this time they were doing okay with expenses. His main concern was what his long term outcome will be. If his vision does not get better he may not be able to return to his job as a firefighter. Everyone knows Kirby is a fighter and has made huge steps in his recovery, but there are still many obstacles in his way. We would like to ease some of that burden for him and his family. I will continue to keep the fund going at this time so any donation woul be greatly appreciated. And to those who have shown and given so much on here, at the Dive for Kirby, and on razrfund; Kirby and Kelle are extremely grateful at the love and support of the dive community.
And as far as any money not needed for their expenses Kirby will donate that money to the Firefighter Chaplains. That's the kind of guy Kirby is
Thanks, Renee (yes Keith, I finally made it on here!)

[shavedheadphil]

Thank you Renee! Got all kinds of stuff running through my brain!

[enchantmentdivi]

Phil--thanks for posting the story and thanks to Kirby for being willing to share it. The truth squelches a lot of rumors floating around from the know-it-alls who weren't even there (you know the types...argh!).

My continued best wishes for a fast and full recovery!

[kdupreez]

Thanks for the updates Phil and kudos to Kirby for sharing the details behind the dive! I think there is a lot for all of us to learn on weighting your dive gear based on his account of the events.

One question, I'm guessing Kirby has no idea on why he experienced a random blackout during the dive?

Any chance they could maybe test him for a PFO while he is in the hospital? if he did have a stroke, a PFO test shoud actually be a very good thing to do in order to rule out higher risk and a probability of a future stroke.

[CaptnJack]

One question, I'm guessing Kirby has no idea on why he experienced a random blackout during the dive?

Doubt it was a stroke on the bottom. Some gas contaminants (esp CO) can serve as a trigger for heart attacks but we don't need that complicated of an explanation. 210ft on air (plus minus), swimming, trying to recover a bell. All with a bunch of CO2 buildup. Once he passed out from the N2/CO2 cocktail, the workload dropped, the CO2 abated, and he fortunately revived before running OOA or losing the reg from his mouth. His mouthpiece was not fully sealed during the blackout and that's explains some of the aspiration. If this rough scenario is accurate (I could be blowing smoke) he's unbelievably lucky to be alive at all IMHO.

Get well soon Kirby

[ljjames]

CO2, N2, O2... or some combo of the three.... he's very lucky.

stroke would likely be from gas embolism or explosive decompression, or a combo of the two.

[dwashbur]

CO2, N2, O2... or some combo of the three.... he's very lucky.

stroke would likely be from gas embolism or explosive decompression, or a combo of the two.

The impression I get, and PLEASE somebody correct me if I misunderstood, is that the stroke was the explanation for his reduced vision, but the doctors aren't sure when the stroke happened in relation to the other events.

In any case, the fact that he is alive and awake and can share the story is a major victory. Congratulations Kirby, and keep getting better! Continuing prayers for your full recovery.

[CaptnJack]

CO2, N2, O2... or some combo of the three.... he's very lucky.

stroke would likely be from gas embolism or explosive decompression, or a combo of the two.

The impression I get, and PLEASE somebody correct me if I misunderstood, is that the stroke was the explanation for his reduced vision, but the doctors aren't sure when the stroke happened in relation to the other events.

The DCS could have jiggled some plaque loose which cut off some blood supply to his brain, bubbles (either DCS or pulmonary embolism) themselves cut off blood supply to part of his brain and its healing, or he could have had DCS in his optic nerve and its damaged that way. There are various ways his visual symptoms could have been caused by DCS, embolism or both, and they would all look like a stroke might at 1ATA.

[airsix]

Phil, thanks for the updates. It's especially comforting to see a picture of Kirby on his feet.

[ljjames]

CO2, N2, O2... or some combo of the three.... he's very lucky.

stroke would likely be from gas embolism or explosive decompression, or a combo of the two.

The impression I get, and PLEASE somebody correct me if I misunderstood, is that the stroke was the explanation for his reduced vision, but the doctors aren't sure when the stroke happened in relation to the other events.

The DCS could have jiggled some plaque loose which cut off some blood supply to his brain, bubbles (either DCS or pulmonary embolism) themselves cut off blood supply to part of his brain and its healing, or he could have had DCS in his optic nerve and its damaged that way. There are various ways his visual symptoms could have been caused by DCS, embolism or both, and they would all look like a stroke might at 1ATA.

I kind of imagined the weakness was a possible indicator of stroke as well... (caused by an in addition to the stuff rjack mentioned)

the eye stuff could also be its own condition related to the DCS event. bubbles in the TINY capillaries that supply retina or possibly bubbles in the vitreous... in the vitreous it will absorb out over time...

[diverden]

I have to say that I really appreciate Kirby allowing the account of what happened to be released. There are so many accidents where the details are never known. I hope many people can learn from this. Thanks & best wishes for a speedy recovery.

[dscuba]

What backgas was being used there at 174 fsw?

[Geek]

Air

[loanwolf]

What backgas was being used there at 174 fsw?

My guess knowing Kirby 174 would usually be air, Phil can you verify that one for us. That would be a good one for others to know.

Also what are the best times to visit him now with his schedule? I am in Portland and want to stop buy on the way back up north and GHSS

Making sure you have enough wight on you to cover your deco/bailout bottles is so important. I give friends who even pack a 40 on recreational dives a hard time that they are packing that extra 3 to 5lbs of weight to offset when things go empty. It is a easy mistake that we all have made and sometimes continue to make. through on that extra bottle and forget to toss in the extra lead to offset it.

Glad to here is is recovering

[kdupreez]

CO2, N2, O2... or some combo of the three.... he's very lucky.

stroke would likely be from gas embolism or explosive decompression, or a combo of the two.

The impression I get, and PLEASE somebody correct me if I misunderstood, is that the stroke was the explanation for his reduced vision, but the doctors aren't sure when the stroke happened in relation to the other events.

The DCS could have jiggled some plaque loose which cut off some blood supply to his brain, bubbles (either DCS or pulmonary embolism) themselves cut off blood supply to part of his brain and its healing, or he could have had DCS in his optic nerve and its damaged that way. There are various ways his visual symptoms could have been caused by DCS, embolism or both, and they would all look like a stroke might at 1ATA.

Rapid ascent and uncontrolled decompression would have manifested in arterial embolisms, which could definitely pose stroke like, (Not pulmonary, that would just give you shortness of breath, black outs etc), but the pulmonary embolism could explain the water on the lungs though (i.e through DCS induced pulmonary edema)

I agree with RJACK on maybe optic nerve damage due to DCS hit, but again.. all speculative..

For all we know at 212 the O2 component of Air is 1.6 PPO and Kirby toxed out and when he came to his senses he was at 170ft with almost no back gas.. (CNS toxicity has the tendancy to make the episode seem like lost time)

He is just very very very lucky the reg stayed in is mouth long enough to breath down all the back gas and his beeping computer was loud enough to wake him up at 170ft..


but quite honestly (and with respect to all), this mumbo jumbo is all pure speculation based on the theoretical physiological responses in the human body to rapid gas diffusion and bubble growth during uncontrolled decompression..

None of us can really say what happened that caused Kirby to skip all his deco... The only person would be Kirby.. Any accounts of wrestling with ship bell's down there and blacking out because of CO2 hit is all speculative.

Lets wait for the Kirby to get well so he can provide a detailed account on whether he was truly Bell wrestling at 212ft, causing him to CO2 out,.

[dwashbur]

Trying to follow the discussion, but not being a tech diver I need to ask a really stupid question:

What's "back gas"?

[Dashrynn]

Trying to follow the discussion, but not being a tech diver I need to ask a really stupid question:

What's "back gas"?

If its not on your front its........

[kdupreez]

Trying to follow the discussion, but not being a tech diver I need to ask a really stupid question:

What's "back gas"?

When doing Open Circuit (regular scuba) technical diving you usually sling one or more cylinders of gas thats either used as decompression or staging or travel gas..

But the "main" gas strapped to your back, is eloquently referred to as "back gas" .

[dwashbur]

Trying to follow the discussion, but not being a tech diver I need to ask a really stupid question:

What's "back gas"?

When doing Open Circuit (regular scuba) technical diving you usually sling one or more cylinders of gas thats either used as decompression or staging or travel gas..

But the "main" gas strapped to your back, is eloquently referred to as "back gas" .

Thanks. I figured it was a dumb question.

[kdupreez]

Thanks. I figured it was a dumb question.

No such thing as a "dumb question".. you didn't know, you asked, someone answered and now you know.. In my books, that kind of curiosity is healthy!

.