"Maybe you're not up on current events.....

[Nwbrewer]

But when there is no live boat and conditions are flat with no water movement, it's a lot better to wait until you get to say, 30fsw to prep the SMB and reel. I understand now that it can be a calming influence for those who are uncomfortable with their situation.

Why do you think it's "a lot better" to deploy from 30fsw as opposed to deeper in the conditions you describe?

[dsteding]

Good story Josh, and agreed, Marc is cool in these types of situations.

Welcome to the "lets not try that again!" again club.

I've never quite been there, but this somewhat reminds me of the time Richard, Rob and I tried to scooter from Washington Park to Skyline. We set our compasses, headed off . . . and were crabbing in the current blowing out into Rosario for 45 minutes. Come up RIGHT at the halfway point between the entry and exit . . . decide to keep going towards Skyline (current is supposed to change sometime, right?) and get out of the water an hour and a half and three dead scooter batteries later.

Got to the beach and were all in agreement: "let's not try that again."

[dwashbur]

Thank God you both came out of it all right! One of the lessons I'm taking from this is underscoring the "any diver can call it any time" rule, one that I eat, sleep and breathe. Another is the famous "don't panic" rule. You both kept your heads and came out with no ill effects. Again, I'm just glad you're both all right.

[kdupreez]

Holy cow Josh!!

Its truly the small things like a freegin compass heading that can snowball into very stressfull situations!!

Thank for sharing bro! Lesson learnt here for sure.

[lamont]

scooters, low viz and no line seems to be a bad combination. pick any two and its perfectly feasible. pick all three and it makes the dive very difficult.

i've done plenty of off-line scooter dives in the coves and further south, but in good viz with buddies that stayed in good light contact. we also kept those shallower to a max of around 60-70 feet (used to be great dives for finding 6-gills at night). oddly creepy in the daytime when you scooter under a barge and the ambient suddenly disappears...

i've done plenty of low viz scooter dives, but nailed to one of the lines and treated a bit like cave where we didn't get off the lines (in addition to being a depth and location reference, it makes it easy to reacquire buddies since you only have to search 1 dimension instead of 2 dimensions to find them).

there also used to be a line from the top of the I-beams to the monolith. i'm not sure if that's still there or not, and i know that it got re-rerouted deeper under the monolith so it didn't go there directly. its only 6 minutes from the can buoy to the monolith, though, so if you stay on the trigger heading south along that line or along a contour and hit 6 mins of time from the bottom of the can, then you're right about in the right neighborhood. time can also be used for navigation -- a lesson that i learned one time swimming 25 minutes to the monolith at depth, then swimming 35 minutes back to cove 3 (oops, what is that piling doing there?) shallow...

[whatevah]

Why you think it's "a lot better" to deploy from 30fsw as opposed to deeper in the conditions you describe?

Why deploy at all under those conditions? The only reason I can think of is to avoid being hit by a boat, but I don't know of any with an 80' draft. So, you're spending more time at depth working through a process which (despite our best efforts) can become a hassle sometimes - you're doing it under greater narcotic effect and in the meantime you're not off-gassing as effectively. In return for the time you invested at greater depth (and greater risk) you get more task loading for the rest of your ascent. Doesn't sound like a very good deal to me.

[Marc]

It takes about a minute to blow a bag, if you are doing a 10' per minute ascent, how are you off gassing any less efficiently?

[airsix]

Whatevah, many of the divers on this board are doing dives wherein they have already completed multiple stops by the time they reach 30ft. There certainly are cases where deep deployment of the bag are useful. The knotted line is a fantastic visual guide for managing ascents and holding stops.

[Joshua Smith]

Yeah, well maybe someday I'll be able to dive at your level. Gives me something to shoot for.

Why you think it's "a lot better" to deploy from 30fsw as opposed to deeper in the conditions you describe?

Why deploy at all under those conditions? The only reason I can think of is to avoid being hit by a boat, but I don't know of any with an 80' draft. So, you're spending more time at depth working through a process which (despite our best efforts) can become a hassle sometimes - you're doing it under greater narcotic effect and in the meantime you're not off-gassing as effectively. In return for the time you invested at greater depth (and greater risk) you get more task loading for the rest of your ascent. Doesn't sound like a very good deal to me.

[Grateful Diver]

I can remember a dive where we blew a bag from 145 fsw ... it was our first stop, and we were looking at about 45+ minutes of deco. I guess the reason we blew the bag deep is so that we didn't spend the next 45 minutes wondering if we'd drifted beyond where the pickup boat could see us.

Besides, it really is easier coming up a line than doing a green water ascent. Even if you're completely comfortable doing the latter, why make your dive any more difficult than it has to be ??

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[whatevah]

It takes about a minute to blow a bag,

If everything goes to plan. This thread is proof that it almost always does

if you are doing a 10' per minute ascent, how are you off gassing any less efficiently?

You may well be loading rather than off-gassing during that 1 minute (or more). In a dive where things go pear-shaped, that is a very real disadvantage. So again, why? When I've made decisions like that it was because I was under the effects of narcosis and stress - afterwards when I thought about the dive I was genuinely pissed off at myself for not maintaining full control and good judgement. I've also seen (and felt myself) the very strong desire to keep structure in sight, and it's something I really dislike. I think it's very similar to the instinctive desire to swim against a rip current - it can be very costly. For some years, my "scariest dive" story was one involving me finning against ripping current and dragging my way hand over hand up-slope toward the surface - could've just let go and safely drifted but at that point in my diving experience I wasn't ready to let go until my gas was getting low (thankfully that clue did kick in at the right time). Often times the route to greater control and improved safety is not along the structure - it's much more direct.

I'm not judging you guys at all, BTW. You made decisions that brought a happy ending and it's really pretty awesome that you're going back over the dive and learning from it - letting us learn too. It just concerns me when people express a discomfort with green water ascents - I don't want to hear that it clouded someone's judgement to the point where it was the straw that broke the camel's back and cost them their life.

I did think of another reason to send up the SMB from depth - can make things much easier for us as PS divers. Those of you who like to sit on the bottom and send up an SMB when your dive is going to hell, please hang on to the reel really tight or clip it off to your BC. We might be able to just pull you up from the boat. Just kidding. Sort of.

[April]

Why you think it's "a lot better" to deploy from 30fsw as opposed to deeper in the conditions you describe?

Why deploy at all under those conditions? The only reason I can think of is to avoid being hit by a boat, but I don't know of any with an 80' draft. So, you're spending more time at depth working through a process which (despite our best efforts) can become a hassle sometimes - you're doing it under greater narcotic effect and in the meantime you're not off-gassing as effectively. In return for the time you invested at greater depth (and greater risk) you get more task loading for the rest of your ascent. Doesn't sound like a very good deal to me.

Whatevah, maybe if you spent more time practicing shooting an SMB and got more comfortable with it you wouldn't feel like it was such a large task... lol

[mz53480]

[Grateful Diver]

That's kinda my way of thinking ... if shooting a bag is task-loading, that just means you need more practice.

Srsly ... it ain't rocket surgery ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Joshua Smith]

Clip it off you your bc, huh? I would have thought that a diver of your amazing skills and vast experience
would know that this is specifically warned against by every technical training agency for obvious reasons.

It takes about a minute to blow a bag,

If everything goes to plan. This thread is proof that it almost always does

if you are doing a 10' per minute ascent, how are you off gassing any less efficiently?

You may well be loading rather than off-gassing during that 1 minute (or more). In a dive where things go pear-shaped, that is a very real disadvantage. So again, why? When I've made decisions like that it was because I was under the effects of narcosis and stress - afterwards when I thought about the dive I was genuinely pissed off at myself for not maintaining full control and good judgement. I've also seen (and felt myself) the very strong desire to keep structure in sight, and it's something I really dislike. I think it's very similar to the instinctive desire to swim against a rip current - it can be very costly. For some years, my "scariest dive" story was one involving me finning against ripping current and dragging my way hand over hand up-slope toward the surface - could've just let go and safely drifted but at that point in my diving experience I wasn't ready to let go until my gas was getting low (thankfully that clue did kick in at the right time). Often times the route to greater control and improved safety is not along the structure - it's much more direct.

I'm not judging you guys at all, BTW. You made decisions that brought a happy ending and it's really pretty awesome that you're going back over the dive and learning from it - letting us learn too. It just concerns me when people express a discomfort with green water ascents - I don't want to hear that it clouded someone's judgement to the point where it was the straw that broke the camel's back and cost them their life.

I did think of another reason to send up the SMB from depth - can make things much easier for us as PS divers. Those of you who like to sit on the bottom and send up an SMB when your dive is going to hell, please hang on to the reel really tight or clip it off to your BC. We might be able to just pull you up from the boat. Just kidding. Sort of.

[whatevah]

I can remember a dive where we blew a bag from 145 fsw ... it was our first stop, and we were looking at about 45+ minutes of deco. I guess the reason we blew the bag deep is so that we didn't spend the next 45 minutes wondering if we'd drifted beyond where the pickup boat could see us.

That's the case I mentioned though Bob - when you want the live boat to be able to track your drift.

Besides, it really is easier coming up a line than doing a green water ascent. Even if you're completely comfortable doing the latter, why make your dive any more difficult than it has to be ??

If you're completely comfortable doing the green water ascent, the line and SMB are a difficulty to be accepted when justified.

[Joshua Smith]

Yeah. I'll be sure and clear my next bag shot with you. Where do you get off giving advice like this? As far as I can tell, you're not an instructor. You appear to have started diving about 7 months before I did. And yet your opinions are issued with a certain smug, self-satisfied, and dare I say *arrogant* air of authority. I think you're a troll.

I can remember a dive where we blew a bag from 145 fsw ... it was our first stop, and we were looking at about 45+ minutes of deco. I guess the reason we blew the bag deep is so that we didn't spend the next 45 minutes wondering if we'd drifted beyond where the pickup boat could see us.

That's the case I mentioned though Bob - when you want the live boat to be able to track your drift.

Besides, it really is easier coming up a line than doing a green water ascent. Even if you're completely comfortable doing the latter, why make your dive any more difficult than it has to be ??

If you're completely comfortable doing the green water ascent, the line and SMB are a difficulty to be accepted when justified.

[Grateful Diver]

Besides, it really is easier coming up a line than doing a green water ascent. Even if you're completely comfortable doing the latter, why make your dive any more difficult than it has to be ??

If you're completely comfortable doing the green water ascent, the line and SMB are a difficulty to be accepted when justified.

I don't get the "difficulty" part ... shooting a bag isn't at all difficult. I teach it regularly to some fairly inexperienced divers. It's just another skill ... if you're hesitant to use it, that just means you haven't practiced enough.

Once the bag's up, ascending a line is preferable to not ascending a line ... having a visual reference reduces the necessity to be constantly monitoring your depth. For long hangs, I find it much more relaxing.

I truly don't understand your objection ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[whatevah]

Whatevah, maybe if you spent more time practicing shooting an SMB and got more comfortable with it you wouldn't feel like it was such a large task... lol

I use my SMB and reel on a pretty good proportion of my dives actually, and I didn't say it was "such a large task".

That's kinda my way of thinking ... if shooting a bag is task-loading, that just means you need more practice.

No it doesn't. A task is a task and it contributes to the task load whether it is well practiced or not.

Clip it off you your bc, huh? I would have thought that a diver of your amazing skills and vast experience would know that this is specifically warned against by every technical training agency for obvious reasons.

It doesn't take a technical training agency to know that the comment was made in jest.

Yeah, well maybe someday I'll be able to dive at your level. Gives me something to shoot for.

My apologies - I thought you brought this story to the board to discuss it as a learning experience but now I see that you just wanted to gather your fans around you to pat you on the back and confirm that you are perfect because you didn't die when you screwed up. I'll keep my own hard-learned lessons to myself so you can go get them yourself and continue to be perfect. As for getting to my level, just keeping posting these reports - I'll holler when I think my dives would be more successful with you along than they would be solo - then you'll know you made it.

[Joshua Smith]

Oh, I'm quite sure ALL of your dives would be MUCH more successful without me. I'll just go back to basking in my own glory, as is my custom. I'm always posting trip reports, all the time, so I can "gather my fans" around me. I just wonder why a luminary such as yourself dives solo? With your magnetic personality and overwhelming charisma, surely there are plenty of people clamoring for an opportunity to bask in the warm light of your presence!

[Nwbrewer]

Oh, I'm quite sure ALL of your dives would be MUCH more successful without me. I'll just go back to basking in my own glory, as is my custom. I'm always posting trip reports, all the time, so I can "gather my fans" around me. I just wonder why a luminary such as yourself dives solo? With your magnetic personality and overwhelming charisma, surely there are plenty of people clamoring for an opportunity to bask in the warm light of your presence!

Calvin, seriously, this board NEEDS a Like button.

[Grateful Diver]

whateveh ... seriously ... can you just cut the crap?

I think everyone gets it that YOU wouldn't shoot a bag from deeper than 30 feet.

More power to ya, dude ... that's how you choose to dive.

Commenting that there's some mysterious task-loading involved in shooting a bag is silly ... I dunno what your reasons for that position might be, but it's completely missing the point of the thread.

I get that you think you're a great diver. You might even be ... wouldn't know ... and really don't care.

I do know that, given your attitude, I don't wish to find out. Judgmental people just don't interest me as potential dive buddies. Is that the effect you're shooting for?

People like you make it hard to post here ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[ktb]

Oh, I'm quite sure ALL of your dives would be MUCH more successful without me. I'll just go back to basking in my own glory, as is my custom. I'm always posting trip reports, all the time, so I can "gather my fans" around me. I just wonder why a luminary such as yourself dives solo? With your magnetic personality and overwhelming charisma, surely there are plenty of people clamoring for an opportunity to bask in the warm light of your presence!

Calvin, seriously, this board NEEDS a Like button.

+1 for that. Spatty, can't you do something about that?

[CaptnJack]

Oh, I'm quite sure ALL of your dives would be MUCH more successful without me. I'll just go back to basking in my own glory, as is my custom. I'm always posting trip reports, all the time, so I can "gather my fans" around me. I just wonder why a luminary such as yourself dives solo? With your magnetic personality and overwhelming charisma, surely there are plenty of people clamoring for an opportunity to bask in the warm light of your presence!

Calvin, seriously, this board NEEDS a Like button.

+1 for the "like"


Spatty, please add a "BS" button while you're at it, there are numerous other posts in this thread alone that deserve it.

Blitz and Josh, glad you got everything sorted out. Thanks for posting.

[citycatred]

[/quote]

+1 for the "like"


Spatty, please add a "BS" button while you're at it, there are numerous other posts in this thread alone that deserve it.

[/quote]

+1 That would be an awesome update.....