New fees at State Parks

[DiverBob]

The state has started a new program for collecting fees at state parks and will affect a few dive sites like Saltwater and Dash Point. I'm sure there is more.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/124855019.html

[Dusty2]

Yep, Just pay your $50 annual fee and forget about it.

[dwashbur]

While it's a little frustrating, I can see the reasoning behind it, and it makes sense. Washington government doing something that makes sense. What IS the world coming to???????????

[RDW]

It's a $30 per year or $10 per day vehicle fee.
Oh no, it's not a tax increase...It's a USER fee.

Uh, yea...
Checks in the mail.
I'm from the Gov't and I'm here to help.
Of course, I'll respect you in the morning...Trust me! I'm a congressman!

[scottsax]

It sucks, but Washington was one of the last states to charge access fees for their state parks.

[Grateful Diver]

They tried this a few years ago, and rescinded it two or three years later because park usage had fallen off so much.

Back then the entry fee was only $5.

Apparently, they think doubling the fee will encourage more usage ???

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[coulterboy]

You're right Bob. That park fee they instituted many years ago didn't last long, cause what it did was deter people from going to the parks. I was one of those who opposed it. I was so glad when they rescinded that fee.

This was one of the MANY reasons I left California.

[CaptnJack]

Actually the pass covers State Parks, WDFW lands and DNR lands.

I happen to be one of those who argees that parks should be funded via the general fund not user fees. But no politics here so I shut up now...

[pogiguy05]

Yes it will be interesting to see how this plays out once it takes effect. $5 a few years ago did not go well so I dont see how $10 will go over either. maybe they think they will get more to go for the annual fee since it is cheaper for those who go frequently.

They have this really small park around World Vision in federal way that they spent like $1,000,000 doing something only to close and lock the access gate indefinitely. This was like 7 or more years ago.

[enchantmentdivi]

I will gladly pay the fee, and in fact, I bought our annual pass last night. Anything to help keep our parks open. Used it today at Potlatch St. Park. Rangers were checking for the passes but were only giving warnings to those without them at this point.

[lizard0924]

Washington is (was) unique in not charging a fee for using the parks. I was surprised when I moved here that there was no park entrance fee. Wisconsin has always charged a hefty daily or annual fee - on top of a state income tax of almost 7%.

The money to keep the parks functioning has to come from somewhere and given the current economic circumstances in WA where else would you propose it comes from? It's either usage fees or state income tax....I'm guessing nobody here wants a state income tax implemented.

[dwashbur]

Washington is (was) unique in not charging a fee for using the parks. I was surprised when I moved here that there was no park entrance fee. Wisconsin has always charged a hefty daily or annual fee - on top of a state income tax of almost 7%.

The money to keep the parks functioning has to come from somewhere and given the current economic circumstances in WA where else would you propose it comes from? It's either usage fees or state income tax....I'm guessing nobody here wants a state income tax implemented.

Agreed. It seems like the most fair way of funding the parks; those who don't use the parks, don't get charged. Those who do, pay a reasonable fee for the use. I can get behind that approach, and will probably get my pass next payday.

[whatevah]

The money to keep the parks functioning has to come from somewhere and given the current economic circumstances in WA where else would you propose it comes from? It's either usage fees or state income tax....I'm guessing nobody here wants a state income tax implemented.

I am generally all for user pays, but in this case, state parks are often where the increasingly sedentary city-dwelling population stays in touch with activity in the outdoors. Poorer folks and those who rarely experience the beauty of our natural surroundings will be shut out to some extent, and I think that's a pity. I think that some out-of-state visitors will balk too. Aside from this, the pass is poorly implemented and very confusing. Why it couldn't be a simple pass with room to mark the registration numbers of several family vehicles is a mystery to me - some of us will end up paying 2x or 3x as much as others, while perhaps using the parks less - that or we'll drive our 11mpg pickups to places we'd really rather drive our econobox or motorcycle. It's going to be tough for many people to figure out when/where the pass is required.

I'd be happy to pay my share of the costs of maintaining state parks, DNR land access etc via taxes. It's an investment in my opinion (right up there with education), and if I wind up kicking in a little extra to make the resources available to those with lower incomes, that's perfect. Surely this doesn't have to mean state income taxes? The state collects taxes in many other ways. This is an access issue that should be kept very simple, but it has now become a major annoyance - as if access to public lands wasn't already a big enough problem :(

[Dusty2]

What's all the crying about???? $30 for a whole years access to all that great recreational property??

It's a given fact that no matter how we try to get the money to fund our parks there will be hoards of people that will scream "unfair". The simple fact is that in cash strapped times such as these things like parks become non issues to those trying to keep the schools open and the roads paved and all the more pressing things that our taxes are used for. It was determined that there would be no money in the general budget for parks and that all parks were to be closed. This was the route chosen to avoid this and right or wrong open parks are much better than closed parks. Closed parks become abandoned parks, become wasted tax dollars when the facilities are not maintained and allowed to deteriorate. Soon it becomes impractical to reopen them because the costs to restore them are prohibitive.

I for one think $30 is a damn small price to pay to fund Washington's awesome parks system. We as divers use parks far more than the average person.

[CaptnJack]

The money to keep the parks functioning has to come from somewhere and given the current economic circumstances in WA where else would you propose it comes from? It's either usage fees or state income tax....I'm guessing nobody here wants a state income tax implemented.

I am generally all for user pays, but in this case, state parks are often where the increasingly sedentary city-dwelling population stays in touch with activity in the outdoors. Poorer folks and those who rarely experience the beauty of our natural surroundings will be shut out to some extent, and I think that's a pity. I think that some out-of-state visitors will balk too. Aside from this, the pass is poorly implemented and very confusing. Why it couldn't be a simple pass with room to mark the registration numbers of several family vehicles is a mystery to me - some of us will end up paying 2x or 3x as much as others, while perhaps using the parks less - that or we'll drive our 11mpg pickups to places we'd really rather drive our econobox or motorcycle. It's going to be tough for many people to figure out when/where the pass is required.

I'd be happy to pay my share of the costs of maintaining state parks, DNR land access etc via taxes. It's an investment in my opinion (right up there with education), and if I wind up kicking in a little extra to make the resources available to those with lower incomes, that's perfect. Surely this doesn't have to mean state income taxes? The state collects taxes in many other ways. This is an access issue that should be kept very simple, but it has now become a major annoyance - as if access to public lands wasn't already a big enough problem :(

+1

[pogiguy05]

Well I got no problem with paying for it since I will be using it. It just makes sense to me. For those wondering I just looked online to purchase it and the total is $35. $33 plus a $2 dealer fee.

[scottsax]

I was at Wallace Falls State Park yesterday, and there were people lined up all morning to buy the pass. Seems like it's working, at least a little...

[whatevah]

What's all the crying about???? $30 for a whole years access to all that great recreational property??

Well I got no problem with paying for it since I will be using it. It just makes sense to me. For those wondering I just looked online to purchase it and the total is $35. $33 plus a $2 dealer fee.

Here's what you're forgetting: the parks were always getting paid for. We were footing the bill. It's public land - we'd all lay claim to it so we should all be paying into the ownership. Now (because our legislators and government cannot figure out how to manage our money with foresight and balance) we are still footing the bill, but it is being levied in such a way as to require that rangers become the equivalent of parking enforcement. In addition to that loss of efficiency, a significant portion of our funds are now going to "transaction fees" and "dealer fees". It requires more hassles on our part, has not been implemented in a clear or simple way, and will discourage people who are not connected to Washington's outdoors from taking an initial step.

It's a given fact that no matter how we try to get the money to fund our parks there will be hoards of people that will scream "unfair". The simple fact is that in cash strapped times such as these things like parks become non issues to those trying to keep the schools open and the roads paved and all the more pressing things that our taxes are used for. It was determined that there would be no money in the general budget for parks and that all parks were to be closed. This was the route chosen to avoid this and right or wrong open parks are much better than closed parks. Closed parks become abandoned parks, become wasted tax dollars when the facilities are not maintained and allowed to deteriorate. Soon it becomes impractical to reopen them because the costs to restore them are prohibitive.

When times are hard we do have to prioritize, for sure, and there are plenty of ways to trim down the parks system - at least temporarily. Those who are a part of the system and are concerned about their jobs and their retirement will of course make the claim that it has to be all or nothing - doom and gloom. If we don't give them what they want everything will be completely shut down and it'll be expensive or impossible to bring those facilities back online later. I don't believe that. I can do without the bathroom blocks with heated floors, the fancy cooking areas, the perfectly manicured lawns where trees used to be etc. What I want is simple access to the land and the waterways - and that access should never be denied despite their threats about parks being "closed". I realize that those luxuries can be nice at times, and I'm willing to pay something towards them in my taxes - but I'm not willing to see access to these public lands doled out in a stratified manner, with multiple layers of complexity and cost inefficiencies. One of the first cuts should be the dimwit ranger at Fort Casey who strutted around and made a big show about warning my dive buddy and I that we needed him there to keep us safe if we were diving outside park hours - that's why he needed $25 from us. I explained that I happily pay the $25 night dive fee when I'm actually night diving because I like to support the parks - even though the $25 fee is really about keeping the bathrooms open and I didn't need them. I also explained that while the sun did set as I was leaving the water, the park hours actually extend to dusk (and that was not yet past by any of the three definitions of "dusk"). Further, I explained that if something happened to a diver he'd be calling me to come recover the body - and I asked him exactly what he would do differently during the evening to save divers from themselves that he clearly does not do during the daylight hours. Didn't have a good answer - but he had a really fancy and expensive light bar on his new pickup. He's not around to stop all the illegal fishing that goes on at Keystone - I've chased off poachers on a number of occasions and there's all kinds of snagged off gear in the protected area. Nope, I'm not keen to fund Ranger Barney Fife at all, and some of the luxuries can go away for a while if we need to tighten our belts.

I for one think $30 is a damn small price to pay to fund Washington's awesome parks system. We as divers use parks far more than the average person.

Spoken like someone whose range of use for these resources is very narrow. If the resources that the Discover Pass covers for you is a few parking areas and bathrooms by the water and you always drive the same vehicle to those places, I can understand why you wouldn't see the problem. I use the resources that way some of the time and I could buy a pass to cover the wagon I usually use for shore dives. But then I like to take backpack trips, hunt and fish in some of these areas too - or just pass through them to get to other public lands. I might like to check out some DNR land a few times a year on my dualsport motorcycle (for which I've already bought registration for the roads) and maybe it'll cost me $35. It'll probably cost me $35 to go deer hunting in my pickup too. I already bought hunting tags, registration etc. Reality is that for a few particular times each year I'm going to wind up paying $35 for each of _four_ different vehicles. I have to deal with the hassles associated with buying those "discover" passes, and I'm going to pay the administrative overhead 4 times too. The truth is, I'm going to be paying for you to drive your car to a park for a dive every week - mostly so you can enjoy the luxury of diving with the comfort of bathrooms, picnic tables and lawns. Meanwhile, kids from families who live below the poverty line will miss out on the experiences provided by our public lands because their parents probably aren't going to cough up for the pass.

At least the US Forest Service makes information available on where their pass is required or not. What am I supposed to do about some of the DNR land I use? Drive the 50 or 60 miles to get there, then find out that they put up a sign saying the Discover Pass was required a week earlier? No problem - I'll drive the 50 miles back to civilization and buy another Discover Pass, then turn around and drive back. Here's the confusing message about where the Discover Pass is required...

"The pass is required to access state recreation lands and water access sites managed by Washington State Parks (State Parks), Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) and Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR). These lands include state parks, water access points, heritage sites, wildlife and natural areas, trails and trailheads. The Discover Pass will be needed to access DNR’s developed or designated recreation areas, sites, trailheads and parking areas."

What exactly am I paying for when I drive onto some DNR land to go do some scouting hikes and I park on the side of a road that is maintained by logging companies and private individuals? What is a "developed or designated recreation area" as defined by the DNR? This is quite ridiculous.

I'm reminded of my recent trip to Florida. Had a short amount of time at the end of a busy day to check out some roadside sights and get a feel for what the area had to offer. Wanted to drive through a small state park there but they wanted to charge me $15 to basically drive to the parking area, look out at the beach and drive back out again - it was 15mins to park closing time. What'd I do? Skipped it. That is a screwed up situation. It's going to be happening all over Washington now.

Okay, I am done with my rant - it was nice to vent but this goes way beyond SCUBA. Hope you all had a great holiday weekend.

[CaptnJack]

Meanwhile, kids from families who live below the poverty line will miss out on the experiences provided by our public lands because their parents probably aren't going to cough up for the pass.

Ding. City kids are already intellectually and nutritionally impoverished enough, they need more access to the outdoors and healthy living not another barrier. We all pay when their definition of "outdoors" is the playground at McDonald's. For one, they respect and protect Puget Sound less (if at all).

[Archer]

FYI
If going to Saltwater State Park get the pass before you go. We tried to go there Friday. Thought i would get the pass there. Found out they do not sell dthe pass at Saltwater. No problem, offered a $20 and asked to pay the daily. Turns out they have no change at the entrace. Well I do not really mind paying a reasonable fee to use the park but they could at least make it convienient to pay.

[diverden]

After reading this thread, it was easy to pay the fee and refresh my crab license at the same time. They'll mail it to you but you can also print out temporaries.

http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/
(which pretty much sends you to: https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov)
The Discover Pass is in the Other tab.

-Dennis