$225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Todd Conover · Post by **Todd Conover** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:04 pm

"It's just so surprising they can stay in business - guess they only need a few customers that don't know any better"

Hard to take this any other way than a simple bash.

"If you think we are coming down hard now.. keep it up"

And I guess this can be taken as a threat?!?

Penopolypants · Post by **Penopolypants** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:07 pm

Rule #1: Don't be a dick.

That includes everybody. So please knock it off.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:09 pm

Todd Conover wrote:"It's just so surprising they can stay in business - guess they only need a few customers that don't know any better"

Hard to take this any other way than a simple bash.

"If you think we are coming down hard now.. keep it up"

And I guess this can be taken as a threat?!?

if you are trying to do damage control and protect your shop, you are failing.

Todd Conover · Post by **Todd Conover** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:12 pm

It is not my shop...just trying to point out the obvious.

Geek · Post by **Geek** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:13 pm

Todd Conover wrote:"It's just so surprising they can stay in business - guess they only need a few customers that don't know any better"

Hard to take this any other way than a simple bash.

"If you think we are coming down hard now.. keep it up"

And I guess this can be taken as a threat?!?

No, pointing out the obvious...... Nicely

Benoit · Post by **Benoit** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:30 pm

Sorry if I sounded "belligerent". This was just disbelief. $80 for a seal that is sold by stores around for $35 (and way less online, but that's not always a fair comp) and then significantly more for the install. The full installed quoted elsewhere was 35 + 45 for $80, which I can get at 3 independent local DS.

OPs: Feel-free to lock this thread. I think it contains interesting data points for others to see but it's unlikely that continuing it will add much value...

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:36 pm

Todd Conover wrote:It is not my shop...just trying to point out the obvious.

Normally people introduce themselves here, would you mind? There's a section for it...

Todd Conover · Post by **Todd Conover** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:53 pm

Hi, my name is "Todd Conover" I am friends with Ron Burgandy, I'm kinda a big deal.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:09 pm

Todd Conover wrote:It is not my shop...just trying to point out the obvious.

this now qualifies you as a troll or sock puppet, "todd". or should we just call you Bryan?

Linedog · Post by **Linedog** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:21 pm

So Todd, what makes you "a big deal"?

Geek · Post by **Geek** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:26 pm

IP adresses are a bitch, No?

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:31 pm

Just when i thought this place was becoming boring

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:40 pm

craigthefish wrote:I really find it offensive to myself and my customers that this thread and this club in general would bash my business without any substantiation. "Benoit" was very belligerent when he came in yesterday; he should go elsewhere.
This is whole thing is all Kinda sad...

Hey, Craig. I don't know Benoit personally, and I have no clue what transpired between you and him. It DOES appear that your price on latex neck seal replacements is, uh....pretty high. But that's neither here nor there. I own my own business, and I firmly believe that it's any one's right to name their own price for their goods and services. It's also every one's right to discuss these prices openly. NWDC has always tried to be fair and friendly to our local dive shops- seriously, we do not tolerate divers coming on the site to complain about perceived slights or personal differences with shop owners or employees. But, if you are charging roughly double what most other shops are for something, don't be too surprised if people talk about it.

As far as "this club" goes- it's a website. Anyone can join. Like you, for example. Most divers around the greater Seattle area who like participating in online forums and the like have accounts here.

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:40 pm

Not to add fuel to the fire but.....

I actually had a similar experience at Silent World, a couple of years ago.

I went in for a neck seal replacement on my DC suit, and when I asked how much it was I was told (this is from memory) ~$80+tax.

After several weeks of waiting and a couple polite calls to check in on the progress, I still wasn't getting anywhere. So, on my third-ish call in I kinda let them know that I'd like my suit back sometime soon. About a week or so later the suit was ready and I went to go pick it up. The bill was $170! When I asked why it was so much more than what I was quoted I was told that since I'd told them that I wanted the suit soon (on my third-ish call), and the guy who normally installs the neck seals was out for a couple days, they overnighted it back and forth to Diving Concepts, had them put on the seal and then charged me for it all.

I paid the bill and thought to myself that I could have just as easily have sent the suit in to Diving Concepts, using a cheap shipping method, gotten the suit back sooner and have paid less. To me, it wasn't my fault that the employee who does neck seals was out, that the suit sat around for weeks without anything being done to it - yet I was given the bill for all of this.

Now, a few things here: I didn't run home and type out a "bashing" of Silent World, I simply decided not to go back there and to stop referring people there (I used to send friends who lived in/near Bellevue to go there to ask about classes, trips, etc.). In general, the people have always been pretty nice there. Yeah, the prices are higher, but the rent is also higher in that part of Bellevue and a rational business owner will charge what the market will bear. But, that experience with the neck seal really rubbed me the wrong way. Yes, some mistakes were made, but a business I respect will own up to *their* mistakes and lose a little $ on one deal, rather than losing a customer long term, imho.

It is good to see that Craig and Co. are quoting neck seal replacements at $165 these days, if that's what they'll cost. I don't like seeing prices charged greatly exceeding those quoted. Still, if you ask me, it's plain insane to pay anywhere close to $165 for a neck seal replacement, no matter how thorough the installer is (yes, I know it's time consuming or whatnot).

In closing, the next neck seal I installed was a neoprene one. You guys who are diving latex are missing out. It's warmer, doesn't leak, won't suddenly bust at an inopportune time and lasts way, way, way longer than a latex seal would. I sent my DUI in to Mark Owens at Superior Diving Repair. He is a bit of a wily rascal in terms of communication (prefers phone calls to emails, if I remember correctly), and you'll have to ship your suit, but his prices and quality of repair/alteration are off the charts. I honestly don't know how he does it. To install my neoprene seal it was $72 including return shipping and no tax. The seal will probably last longer than 10 latex ones would, and most importantly - I won't have any surprise blown neck seals (and thus, scrubbed dives)

I had Mark do a TON of additional work to the suit once I realized what a bargain his prices were (replace crotch strap, glue heels, new knee pads, service valves, install sewn-in Viking ring system and wrist seals, fix a few worn spots, etc.) and now it's an absolute dream to dive. Total bill was around $220-250 if I remember correctly. I highly recommend sending him some photos of you in the suit, if you're gonna have him do custom work. It helps him to visualize the fit, etc.

Linedog · Post by **Linedog** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:43 pm

Todd?

Dmitchell · Post by **Dmitchell** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:44 pm

Having owned a dive shop and watched my wife do hundreds of neck and wrist seals. I can tell you that it takes more than an hour to do one properly. It does not however take someone who is experienced in doing it 5-6 hours. 2-2.5 tops.

For a shop to do this work on a normal name brand drysuit, $90 to $125 is what I would say is reasonable. You have the cost of the seal which is about $25-$30 to the shop, glue ($5) and you have labor. If the shop sells the seal for $50 then 2 hours labor at $50 to $75 is reasonable to get my estimate on the price. Given that in that 2 hours there is downtime that the tech can be doing something else. I know my wife would do 3 suits at once if we had that many to do.

ljjames · Post by **ljjames** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:01 pm

I watched Wally take more than "2 to 2.5 hrs tops" on a neoprene neck seal. Are you saying he's not experience or doing something correctly?

What is a service technician's time worth?

What should be the going rate?

These people work on your life support equipment, they rebuild your regs, fix your suits? What is that worth to you? if you disagree that a neck seal isn't a part of your life support equipment try doing an hour dive in our water fully flooded. Try doing a deco dive fully flooded.

How much do you pay your auto mechanic? Your Lawyer? bike mechanic? Your housekeeper? Your gardener? Your hairdresser (assuming you are not going to Rudys)..... What is YOUR time worth?

165.00... isn't that about the same as a DUI zip neck seal? (not even counting the original cost of the rings on the suit themselves)

Why is it that folks think that working on your scuba gear, or teach your kid to dive safely should be paid 10 dollars (or less) an hour? This is part of the problem in the diving industry. what is diving worth to you?

Mattleycrue76 · Post by **Mattleycrue76** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:16 pm

ljjames wrote:I watched Wally take more than "2 to 2.5 hrs tops" on a neoprene neck seal. Are you saying he's not experience or doing something correctly?

What is a service technician's time worth?

What should be the going rate?

These people work on your life support equipment, they rebuild your regs, fix your suits? What is that worth to you? if you disagree that a neck seal isn't a part of your life support equipment try doing an hour dive in our water fully flooded. Try doing a deco dive fully flooded.

How much do you pay your auto mechanic? Your Lawyer? bike mechanic? Your housekeeper? Your gardener? Your hairdresser (assuming you are not going to Rudys)..... What is YOUR time worth?

165.00... isn't that about the same as a DUI zip neck seal? (not even counting the original cost of the rings on the suit themselves)

Why is it that folks think that working on your scuba gear, or teach your kid to dive safely should be paid 10 dollars (or less) an hour? This is part of the problem in the diving industry. what is diving worth to you?

If I was on a in a remote location, on an expensive vacation, and the only neckseal around cost $400 I'd pay it. But around here there are (many) other dive shops that will do good work on a neck seal for a lot less. Just because someone charges a bunch of money for something doesn't make it better. I've gotten excellent same day neck seal service from Wally for $85. It's been over two years and I'm still referring people. Why is it that folks in the SCUBA industry think that free market principles shouldn't apply to them?

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:33 pm

ljjames wrote:I watched Wally take more than "2 to 2.5 hrs tops" on a neoprene neck seal. Are you saying he's not experience or doing something correctly?

What is a service technician's time worth?

What should be the going rate?

These people work on your life support equipment, they rebuild your regs, fix your suits? What is that worth to you? if you disagree that a neck seal isn't a part of your life support equipment try doing an hour dive in our water fully flooded. Try doing a deco dive fully flooded.

How much do you pay your auto mechanic? Your Lawyer? bike mechanic? Your housekeeper? Your gardener? Your hairdresser (assuming you are not going to Rudys)..... What is YOUR time worth?

165.00... isn't that about the same as a DUI zip neck seal? (not even counting the original cost of the rings on the suit themselves)

Why is it that folks think that working on your scuba gear, or teach your kid to dive safely should be paid 10 dollars (or less) an hour? This is part of the problem in the diving industry. what is diving worth to you?

This is where i have to disagree on some points. The 300% (about) price increase is ridiculous on a lot of dive equipment. SS bolt snaps for instance, I can buy SS bolt snaps for 6.75 from one store and the next is 20$. Sure I can understand location prices but when they are right down the road from the store with 6.75 bolt snaps is not good business sense (unless you count on those last minute i need it now people). I can name other pieces of dive equipment that comes from CHINA that has a 100% price increase, just because some guy put his name on it.

Also I'm pretty sure the guy is talking about latex when quoted 2-2.5 hours, if not then I agree. Hell I have replaced my own seals with a 1 hour (instruction) ross crash course! NEVER leaked. So these fees for replacing LATEX seals are ridiculous if a buffoon like myself can do it with a piece of wood, clamps, and 3M glue.

Now on labor cost. The Chinese are working for pennies and rice, look where they are? We owe THEM money. It's not about how much it actually cost's, it's location/competition/name brand.

Geek · Post by **Geek** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:42 pm

$30 latex neck seal, 2 hours or so of labor... $85, $25/hr is a living wage-ish, $80/hr for the same job is stupid, we are not talking Dodge vs Ferrari here...

And as Dash just nicely pointed out, any monkey can change seals

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:54 pm

ljjames wrote:I watched Wally take more than "2 to 2.5 hrs tops" on a neoprene neck seal. Are you saying he's not experience or doing something correctly?

What is a service technician's time worth?

What should be the going rate?

These people work on your life support equipment, they rebuild your regs, fix your suits? What is that worth to you? if you disagree that a neck seal isn't a part of your life support equipment try doing an hour dive in our water fully flooded. Try doing a deco dive fully flooded.

How much do you pay your auto mechanic? Your Lawyer? bike mechanic? Your housekeeper? Your gardener? Your hairdresser (assuming you are not going to Rudys)..... What is YOUR time worth?

165.00... isn't that about the same as a DUI zip neck seal? (not even counting the original cost of the rings on the suit themselves)

Why is it that folks think that working on your scuba gear, or teach your kid to dive safely should be paid 10 dollars (or less) an hour? This is part of the problem in the diving industry. what is diving worth to you?

Point taken, Laura. I'm extremely aware of the tenuous position all Local Dive Shops are in. However- this thread is pointing out that one shop is charging roughly double what all the other ones are for what appears to be an "apples-to-apples" kind of service. That's actually pretty noteworthy. fwiw, I try really hard to buy as much as I can from brick and mortar dive shops, as opposed to buying online. I also make it a point not to speak badly about ANY dive shop. I vote with my wallet. But I think it says something that while I live in Seattle, minutes away from perhaps the biggest LDS in the area, that I buy stuff from Tacoma Scuba, or else Adventures Down Under in freaking Bellingham. Those are the two shops that have consistently treated me really well, and the ones I will actively promote with my recommendations.

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:58 pm

Geek wrote:
And as Dash just nicely pointed out, any monkey can change seals

Yeah! Monke.....hey what?

vlad · Post by **vlad** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:20 am

I'm diving with Silent World for three years, had dozens of local dives and multiple dive trips with them, so far so good, no complains. I'll keep diving with them, whatever their prices on neck seals are. Just saying for counterbalance.

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:08 am

ljjames wrote:I watched Wally take more than "2 to 2.5 hrs tops" on a neoprene neck seal. Are you saying he's not experience or doing something correctly?

What is a service technician's time worth?

What should be the going rate?

These people work on your life support equipment, they rebuild your regs, fix your suits? What is that worth to you? if you disagree that a neck seal isn't a part of your life support equipment try doing an hour dive in our water fully flooded. Try doing a deco dive fully flooded.

How much do you pay your auto mechanic? Your Lawyer? bike mechanic? Your housekeeper? Your gardener? Your hairdresser (assuming you are not going to Rudys)..... What is YOUR time worth?

165.00... isn't that about the same as a DUI zip neck seal? (not even counting the original cost of the rings on the suit themselves)

Why is it that folks think that working on your scuba gear, or teach your kid to dive safely should be paid 10 dollars (or less) an hour? This is part of the problem in the diving industry. what is diving worth to you?

...
So if I am NOT paying almost double then what I can get from numerous shops, I am jeopardizing my life?? I just want to make sure that I am clear on this point...The more you pay, the safer you will be?

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:25 am

Tangfish wrote:I sent my DUI in to Mark Owens at Superior Diving Repair. He is a bit of a wily rascal in terms of communication (prefers phone calls to emails, if I remember correctly), and you'll have to ship your suit, but his prices and quality of repair/alteration are off the charts.

<snip>

I highly recommend sending him some photos of you in the suit, if you're gonna have him do custom work. It helps him to visualize the fit, etc.

i have to chime in here regarding Superior Repair. last year i sent my pinnacle suit to them for some alterations with very detailed notes and photographs, only to receive a completely botched job.

first of all, they had the suit for nearly eight weeks, after they had assured me it would be shipped back within two. once i got the suit back, i discovered they removed way too much material in the upper torso, making the suit restrictive and uncomfortable. furthermore, they reattached the neoprene booties so that the toes pointed inwards, one of them almost 90° off center.

i called them to see about rectifying the problems, and without going into too much detail about the exchanges, was basically told that they felt they followed my instructions (like i had asked for the booties to be put on sideways??), and that i would have to pay them for further alterations.

when it was all said and done, i wasted a lot of money on a new drysuit and alterations and was forced to sell the suit at a huge loss.

i will never recommend Superior Diving Repair to anyone, and would advise looking for a suitable local alternative before sending an expensive piece of gear out into the void.

Northwest Dive Club

$225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?

Re: $225 to $250 for a neck seal?