What computer

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Nwcid
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What computer

Post by Nwcid » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:53 pm

Right now we are using Veo 100's that do everything we need for now but starting to look forward to our future.

Two of the big things our computers don't do now are list display and average depth.
While Nitrox is not anywhere in our near future (not available in our area) it would be dumb not to get a computer that is not compatible with it.
Not sure what level of "conservancy" we are looking for, but I understand they are all a bit different.
We are diving close to DIR and I have read wireless can have quiet a few issues so don't think that needs to be included.
Easy to use would be nice.
Being able to upload them to Mac would be nice but not required.

$500 or less each would be nice.

Can I get some suggestion of what ones to look into more and why.
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Jeff Pack
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Re: What computer

Post by Jeff Pack » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:16 pm

If you want to look towards the future, you need to up your price target. Like almost 2x.

For example a Liquivision Xeo is around 1k (unless you hit up Koos for the nwdc discount).

I've learned here there are "recreational" computers, that have conservative algorithms, penalize you for all sorts of things, and non recreational ones with better saturation algorithms (Buhlman for example).

After my last bout with battling computers, and skyrocketing deco obligations, I crap canned my recreational computer, and got the Xeo. I havent regretted that decision. The readability,user interface, are awesome. The xeo supports trimix, which again is forward looking. Heck, it even supports a CCR mode.

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LCF
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Re: What computer

Post by LCF » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:35 pm

Uwatec is selling the Aladin 2g computer for four hundred something . . . not the deal we got on the older Tec 2g last year, but still within your budget. It's a good computer, although the interface is not terribly intuitive. The logging software is excellent, but you will have to buy an IR dongle to interface your laptop with it.

The Suunto Vyper is the updated Vytec, I think; it's also a good unit, available in the mid-400s. It has a user replaceable battery and a backlight. I didn't like the old Suunto logging software much, and I've heard their current version is worse.

Personally, I will never buy another gauge/computer that isn't OLED, but all of those units are out of your stated price range.
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Re: What computer

Post by Nwcid » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:38 pm

I know what you mean Jeff but keep in mind I "have" to get 2 of whatever I choose and that is a big chunk of $$$.

Also if I get to the point of going beyond Rec then I am going to be looking at lots of added cost and a computer is just one of those things........

It also might be that in our price range there is no real reason to "upgrade" now.
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spatman
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Re: What computer

Post by spatman » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:15 pm

Nwcid wrote:I know what you mean Jeff but keep in mind I "have" to get 2 of whatever I choose and that is a big chunk of $$$.

Also if I get to the point of going beyond Rec then I am going to be looking at lots of added cost and a computer is just one of those things........

It also might be that in our price range there is no real reason to "upgrade" now.


+1. There are plenty of good nitrox computers out there that will work just fine for your needs for quite some time. I would recommend picking one that has gauge mode that could become your bottom timer should you ever decide to pursue tech diving.
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Dusty2
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Re: What computer

Post by Dusty2 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:30 pm

There are a lot of tech oriented people on this board so you will get a lot of votes for the high end stuff which kind of like buying a Lamborghini to go shopping at the local mall. Oled's are awesome but they are seriously pricey and not really necessary for rec diving. Most of the name brands make decent puck type computers truth be known there are only a couple mfg out there that make the computers and sell them to all the name brand companies. What varies widely is the logarithms that the different companies put into theirs. I would stay away from Suunto and Cressy because they are very conservative and will have you doing allot of unnecessary deco and they will lock you out if you try to fudge it. I personally use a Mares computer and I am quite happy with it but others may not feel the same. If you want a full color display with lots of bells and whistles this is a smokin deal that fall into your price range. They are trade in units but in excellent shape the reason they were traded in was that Mares made a newer model that was upgradable and offered the buyers that had the non upgradable unit a special deal. These things sold for Over $1000 new but they are moving these trade ins at $425.00
If I had the bucks I'd be on it for sure.
http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?product_id=NonUpgradableMaresIcon

Basically if that deal isn't right for you most of the mfg have good units in your range. don't buy the low end unit from any Mfg. get ones that are full size for easy reading, A good intermediate unit will have 2 to 3 buttons for programing. If they only have one forget it. You want a nitrox compatible unit even if you don't plan to use nitrox these units will be more programmable and flexible. Try to find ones that have a manual override for the lock out feature. Even a slight error can shut you down for 24 hours and if you can't override it your out of luck. Another annoying feature on some computers is that they reset to air after a few hours and you have to remember to reprogram them before you go into the water or your stuck in air mode. Not a problem if your using only air but it becomes a major pain if your using nitrox.

What ever you buy get 2 at the same time because being on different computers with different programing is the pits!
Last edited by Dusty2 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What computer

Post by HakkTW » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:31 pm

+1 on Aladin 2g for your price range, etc. I dive a Liquivision Xen, but I have a 2g in guage mode as my backup. It is one of the only computers left that calculates/displays average depth on the fly.

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CaptnJack
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Re: What computer

Post by CaptnJack » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:09 pm

"DIR" peeps like me often don't use computers. You can use one recreationally of course, just saying most of us dive with something in gauge mode only. The tried and true is the UWATEC hockey puck bottom timer for about $220.
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fmerkel
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Re: What computer

Post by fmerkel » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:31 pm

Just to be difficult.....if you don't go 'Tech' there is a physiological reality I call the NW Tri-fecta. Generally you run low on air, get cold, and gotta pee after about an hour on the ubiquitous steel 100. If you don't do extremely square deep dives, come up at a reasonable rate, and do a decent safety stop you almost don't even need a computer around here. I'm primarily a critter diver and fall squarely into the category above. I maybe go into deco a half dozen times a year and it always clears well before I surface. That's pretty much completely ignoring the obligation entirely. I just finish my dive in my customary fashion-go up slowly, do a deep stop if the dive needs it, and spend a decent time in the shallows poking around for little critters. Mostly I pay attention to my air, my depth, and my dive time. But then, I guess that's what the computer is doing and telling me about it for a significant cost.

If you find you are pushing all of those limits on larger tanks, doing multiple dives/day, and stacking the days up, then it's a different story.

I'd dive those Veo's until they die. By then you'll have figured a whole lot more out.
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Nwcid
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Re: What computer

Post by Nwcid » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:43 pm

What got this all started was I was buying some parts and saw "sale", http://www.divegearexpress.com/computers/nitekduo.shtml which lead me to looking around at other stuff. "Sale" catches me quite often and leads me to thinking I need things I don't really.

Sure a copule of features might be nice but as said above "dive the Veo's till they die" might not be a bad plan either. They do all we need them to do at the moment. I am still going to look around a bit, but going to try to talk myself out of it till I have an actual reason to change.
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Clay
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Re: What computer

Post by Clay » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:43 pm

My girlfriend and I both got the Galileo Luna's, they are wireless but they're amazing and versatile. Due to the wireless transmitter when we're diving together, her tank pressure displays on my screen and vice versa. They're super easy to use, nitrox capable of course and will be tech capable if need be.

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renoun
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Re: What computer

Post by renoun » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:47 pm

Nwcid wrote:Sure a copule of features might be nice but as said above "dive the Veo's till they die" might not be a bad plan either.

The only reason I'm not still diving a Veo 100? is that it didn't have a back-light and I dive at night frequently. Not having a back-lit display added task loading during mid-water ascents but wasn't that big of a deal. I got a deal on a slightly better used computer that met my needs otherwise I still would be diving the Veo. I suspect that you can find better things to spend money on right now and wait for the price of OLED computers to drop.
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Nwbrewer
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Re: What computer

Post by Nwbrewer » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:14 am

renoun wrote:
Nwcid wrote:Sure a copule of features might be nice but as said above "dive the Veo's till they die" might not be a bad plan either.

The only reason I'm not still diving a Veo 100? is that it didn't have a back-light and I dive at night frequently. Not having a back-lit display added task loading during mid-water ascents but wasn't that big of a deal. I got a deal on a slightly better used computer that met my needs otherwise I still would be diving the Veo. I suspect that you can find better things to spend money on right now and wait for the price of OLED computers to drop.


+1

Are you diving your Veo's wrist mount, or as part of a brick? If part of a brick, spend a few $ and wrist mount them. Other than that I second (third?) the dive them until they die comment.
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Re: What computer

Post by Nwcid » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:24 am

We got them as part of a console. We have since "stripped" it down. The SPG is on the left side, SK7 in DSS on left wrist, Veo on the right wrist.
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CaptnJack
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Re: What computer

Post by CaptnJack » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:11 am

Nwcid wrote:We got them as part of a console. We have since "stripped" it down. The SPG is on the left side, SK7 in DSS on left wrist, Veo on the right wrist.

I see no reason to change this either. Mostly since you have no nitrox availability except home-brew.
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Re: What computer

Post by fnerg » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:33 am

I used a Veo for about 200 dives up until I got a Galileo Sol about 15 dives or so ago. If both of you put $10 into a new computer jar every dive, within 100 dives, you'll both have enough for fancy-schmancy new computers in no time!

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LCF
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Re: What computer

Post by LCF » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:56 am

Regarding backlighting: If you use the dry suit primarily for buoyancy, it's not a big deal to hold your light on your gauge to control a night ascent. On the other hand, if you use the wing, you have got to position the light, check gauge, take light away and dump somewhere, put light back on gauge and adjust angle until you can read it . . . for someone who was as buoyancy-challenged as I was, that was WAY too much to get done successfully, and led to some very unstable ascents. A gauge you could backlight, and that would stay lit for a minute or two, was much better for me.
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ArcticDiver
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Re: What computer

Post by ArcticDiver » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:38 am

Plus 1 or something on those who caution about buying a high end computer now. Technology and protocol fads change with amazing regularity. So, waiting until you get there to buy a high end computer is, to me, the wisest course.

I dive, almost there to do it again, a Nitek Duo. Works like a champ for even some pretty, for me, extended deco. To me 30 min of deco is a long time. Like someone mentioned other factors limit the dive many times. In fact, as has been mentioned, there is often no reason at all to even have a computer except as a comfort factor.

There seems to be a long standing philisophical split about where the computer that produces your dive plan resides. Some are adamant the computer sit on land and provide plan data in some tabular fashion. They then use some kind of a timer/depth gauge to meter their dive. Others take the computer with them and mount it on their gear or their wrist. Some are pretty passionate about their preference. But, the fact is that both work as long as you understand what you are doing.. Neither is very useful without that understanding.
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fmerkel
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Re: What computer

Post by fmerkel » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:09 am

ArcticDiver wrote:Plus 1 or something on those who caution about buying a high end computer now.

But, the fact is that both work as long as you understand what you are doing.. Neither is very useful without that understanding.


Well said.
I sure see a lot of new divers throwing big $$ at a top end reg, modo BC, expensive computer......and a wetsuit because drysuits are too expensive. Around here that is a backwards priority. Of all of those items a computer is waaaayyy last on the list.
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Re: What computer

Post by coulterboy » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:08 am

fmerkel wrote:
ArcticDiver wrote:Plus 1 or something on those who caution about buying a high end computer now.

But, the fact is that both work as long as you understand what you are doing.. Neither is very useful without that understanding.


Well said.
I sure see a lot of new divers throwing big $$ at a top end reg, modo BC, expensive computer......and a wetsuit because drysuits are too expensive. Around here that is a backwards priority. Of all of those items a computer is waaaayyy last on the list.


I can't agree with you more. The NW has a way of influencing divers in a speedy fashion.
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spatman
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Re: What computer

Post by spatman » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:26 am

coulterboy wrote:
fmerkel wrote:
ArcticDiver wrote:Plus 1 or something on those who caution about buying a high end computer now.

But, the fact is that both work as long as you understand what you are doing.. Neither is very useful without that understanding.


Well said.
I sure see a lot of new divers throwing big $$ at a top end reg, modo BC, expensive computer......and a wetsuit because drysuits are too expensive. Around here that is a backwards priority. Of all of those items a computer is waaaayyy last on the list.


I can't agree with you more. The NW has a way of influencing divers in a speedy fashion.


Which is great in some circumstances, and not so much in others.
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Re: What computer

Post by Joshua Smith » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:45 pm

spatman wrote:Which is great in some circumstances, and not so much in others.


+1
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Re: What computer

Post by Nwcid » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:44 pm

ArcticDiver wrote: But, the fact is that both work as long as you understand what you are doing.. Neither is very useful without that understanding.


So maybe that is part of it. Here is my understanding and maybe that is something that needs corrected.

With a dive table it is all based on the deepest part of your dive for the amount of "down time" you can have. My understanding is that with a computer it is always monitoring your depth and "adjusts" you time based on actual depth. Based on the PADI RDT if I was to dive to 100' the max amount of time you can stay down is 20 min. But say I do a dive to 100' realize there is not much there and only spend a few min before heading up between 60' and 70' where the NDL are 40 min an 55 min (when used as a max depth).

So if I am understanding correctly, that dive to 100' but only staying a couple min still only allows me 20 min because the table has no method for doing actual profile. On the other hand the computer will actively monitor the depth and adjust for actual time spent. By doing this as you come up it will show different NDL based on actual profile.

Again not looking for "high end". Just saw some "on sale" and that is something that makes my "hey that is a good deal I need one" meter go into full active mode. Looking to see if there was something better then what we have, with a few "nice to have" features, that is still cost effective.
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Re: What computer

Post by Nwcid » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:54 pm

I want to say thanks for all the help and replies so far. I have had a couple of PM's talking about other gear and training also so I will put more info about us out there that might help.

Me;
Bare ATR HD Dry suit with dry gloves
BP/W using hog strap and Hollis 38lb wing
HOG D1 Regs (7')
Dusty Can light
DRIS 1000 lumen back up light
SPG that was taken out of console on the left hip
SK7 in DSS mount on Left wrist
Veo 100 on right wrist
3, HP-130 tanks

Her;
Bare D6 with dry gloves
BP/W using hog strap and Hollis 38lb wing
HOG D1 Regs (7')
Dusty Can light
DRIS 1000 lumen back up light
SPG that was taken out of console on the left hip
SK7 in DSS mount on Left wrist
Veo 100 on right wrist
3, HP-100 tanks


PADI OW exactly 1 year ago
Skills workshop with Bob about 6 months ago
Currently 1/2 way through with AOW with BOB. Just have 5 our 6 dives to do the last weekend of this month which happens to be the same dates we finished OW last year.
We have also had some basic rescue classes and search/tender diving training with our local Sheriff's Dive team
John

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CaptnJack
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Re: What computer

Post by CaptnJack » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:02 pm

Nwcid wrote:So maybe that is part of it. Here is my understanding and maybe that is something that needs corrected.

With a dive table it is all based on the deepest part of your dive for the amount of "down time" you can have. My understanding is that with a computer it is always monitoring your depth and "adjusts" you time based on actual depth. Based on the PADI RDT if I was to dive to 100' the max amount of time you can stay down is 20 min. But say I do a dive to 100' realize there is not much there and only spend a few min before heading up between 60' and 70' where the NDL are 40 min an 55 min (when used as a max depth).

So if I am understanding correctly, that dive to 100' but only staying a couple min still only allows me 20 min because the table has no method for doing actual profile. On the other hand the computer will actively monitor the depth and adjust for actual time spent. By doing this as you come up it will show different NDL based on actual profile.


Officially, technically, "by the book" you are correct.
In reality you can multilevel with "tables". In days of yore, PADI even had a wheel gizmo so you could calculate this in a certified manner. Nowadays most of us diving tables multilevel them anyway. Its not magical and depth averaging is a reasonably safe practice if you are concientious. I don't think the internet is the best place to gain the experience to do this reasonably. But there are ample mentoring options where you might get a better grasp of the concepts and begin (in small amounts over time) to apply tables to multilevel dives.
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