What training do we need next

[spatman]

Again there have been lots of good and helpful comments in here but none that have really answered the question.

You're ultimately going to have to answer that question, not us.

[pensacoladiver]

To me, the logical sequence of events to get to the depths I have seen you describe is nitrox class, then advanced nitrox/decompression procedures.

I will add a caveat that nitrox class can happen anytime. However advanced nitrox and deco procedures should not happen until you are absolutely comfortable in the water at all depths up to the recreational limit and have rock solid control over your trim.

I went through AN/DP with another student who did not and she was an absolute train wreck. There is no way I would dive with her on a deco dive as my buddy. She ended up getting certified, but that is a whole nother story.

[Jeff Pack]

Since you want to get into tec diving, you'll need Nitrox, advanced nitrox and I'd suggest trimix as well. Rec trimix will cert you to 160ft (IANTD)

(Caveat, I'm not a doubles/OC diver, so some of the below is my list, some from what I've read and seen)

Strongly suggest (if dont already) BP/W.
Doubles and everythign that goes with them.
Cannister Light.
At least 2 AL40's. (1 bail out, one deco gas). DIN regs for each.
SMB and/or lift bag.
delrin finger spool, or even a reel.
Good backup light.
Backup mask.

Probably some stuff I've forgotten.

Then you need to start practicing skills.

OOA drills.
Boom drills
Valve drills
buddy tank swaps
Dead nutz on buoyancy at less than 30ft(to 15)
Same as above but doing a tank swap.
Same as above floating an SMB.
Same as above floating an SMB, and ascending, and reeling it in with no slack.

I considered myself a pretty fair diver (recreational anyways). My tec class was one major eye opener. I still have alot of practicing to pass my skills tests above.

I dunno if this answers, helps or whatever, good luck.

Take up some offers with super good divers to go dive with them. I learned a ton of stuff diving with Koos and other GUE folks. Downside, they make it look easy, it isnt.

Diver with varied divers and styles, figure out what works for you, and what doesnt.

Ask questions.

When you think you have it figured out, ask again, because you havent.

Tec is a big commitment in time and money.

[Nwcid]

Again there have been lots of good and helpful comments in here but none that have really answered the question.

You're ultimately going to have to answer that question, not us.

I understand that but there are easily 50-100 different "scuba" classes out there. Not all of them will fit our goals or are needed for them. So the idea is what classes should be be looking toward in the future. For example do I need "cave" classes to do non-penetration wreck dives? I would assume not but I dont know so I asked. How about Tech 1, is that enough class? Are there other classes we need before that? What agency is best for the different classes?

That is the kind of information I am after. I am not trying to sound un-greatful for the info we have been getting because there is some very good info in here. I know we have lots of skills to practice and plan on it.

[Nwcid]

To me, the logical sequence of events to get to the depths I have seen you describe is nitrox class, then advanced nitrox/decompression procedures.

I will add a caveat that nitrox class can happen anytime. However advanced nitrox and deco procedures should not happen until you are absolutely comfortable in the water at all depths up to the recreational limit and have rock solid control over your trim.

I went through AN/DP with another student who did not and she was an absolute train wreck. There is no way I would dive with her on a deco dive as my buddy. She ended up getting certified, but that is a whole nother story.

That makes sense. Of course knowing what classes we will need will also help know what skills to work on until it is that time. I know one area we suffer really bad is mid water depth control.

[Nwcid]

Jeff thanks for the input.

We already dive BP/w with DIN long hose
Have can lights
Have good back up
Have finger spools and SMB

I have been thinking about getting some doubles especially with Black Friday coming seeing what deals are out there. GF will have to go side mount for weight reasons.

[Waynne Fowler]

You can do intro to tech which will give you the basics of deep diving and let you decide from there. With your level of medical training and experience rescue could be optional depending on the instructor.

Sorry, Dusty, but I disagree. Yes, CPR/first aid is part of Rescue, but not all. There are techniques for towing unconscious divers, toxing diver rescue, and other scuba related skills that are important and not included in any land based classes.

+1
I'd have to agree... there are things about rescue of a diver that are not quite as intuitive as one would imagine.

[Waynne Fowler]

Rescue isnt a prerequisite for any tech class that I'm aware of....but it should be.

Spatman didn't say it was. And as far as I know you are absolutely right... Spats did say that it would be a good idea and it seems that you'd be in agreement with that sentiment.

[Joshua Smith]

Again there have been lots of good and helpful comments in here but none that have really answered the question.

You're ultimately going to have to answer that question, not us.

I understand that but there are easily 50-100 different "scuba" classes out there. Not all of them will fit our goals or are needed for them. So the idea is what classes should be be looking toward in the future. For example do I need "cave" classes to do non-penetration wreck dives? I would assume not but I dont know so I asked. How about Tech 1, is that enough class? Are there other classes we need before that? What agency is best for the different classes?

That is the kind of information I am after. I am not trying to sound un-greatful for the info we have been getting because there is some very good info in here. I know we have lots of skills to practice and plan on it.

To answer one part of what you wrote: No, you dont need cave training to do anything besides diving in caves. It will make you a better diver, though. At least, so Im told. I've seen a few dive buddies go through cave training, and been impressed with the results, too.

I guess my suggestion would be to aim for a training path that would teach you gas planning for decompression, the use of oxygen and/or nitrox, and whatever amount of Helium you feel you need to see the stuff you want to see. By the time you have that done, you'll know what other training you need.

[Jeff Pack]

GF will have to go side mount for weight reasons.

Or go with a KISS GEM. Smaller than sidemount, lighter than doubles, and you'll never be the one to call a dive on low air with those bubble blowers...

Used ones can be found (like on RBW right now).

[spatman]

Again there have been lots of good and helpful comments in here but none that have really answered the question.

You're ultimately going to have to answer that question, not us.

I understand that but there are easily 50-100 different "scuba" classes out there. Not all of them will fit our goals or are needed for them. So the idea is what classes should be be looking toward in the future. For example do I need "cave" classes to do non-penetration wreck dives? I would assume not but I dont know so I asked. How about Tech 1, is that enough class? Are there other classes we need before that? What agency is best for the different classes?

That's a bit broader than your original question, which asked specifically what you should take next.

So with those two goals what is the next set for us?

[LCF]

If you are not interested in wreck penetration, you don't need any specific scuba training to dive wrecks. However, learning about ships, especially the types you might be diving, and how they are constructed and what the different parts are and do, would make the experience richer. It might not be necessary for you, but I'm sure it's likely to be for your wife. I know that, to me, most wrecks are twisted pieces of metal covered in silt, and something less than inspiring because of that

If you are interested in penetration, again, UTD has an overhead protocols class, and AG reportedly teaches a mean wreck penetration class. I haven't taken it, but I've read reports and talked to people who have.

I think you have actually been given a lot of ideas on how to get to a goal of doing enjoyable length dives in the 120 to 150 foot range. What the actual sequence of classes is depends on the agency you work with. Whether you get helium to do the dives with (something I'd HIGHLY recommend, especially if you are interested in any of the wrecks in Lake Washington) depends again on the agency. There's a whole thread here on technical instructors, and you should talk to some of them and get a feel for who they are and what and how they teach.

Tech diving isn't wildly different. You have to manage your gear, have good buoyancy control, good situational awareness, responsible gas planning, and the ability to solve problems where you are. You have got a good start on those things by working with Bob, and the people who say "go out and dive" are telling you to practice what you already know until it's polished, before taking on more.

[pensacoladiver]

If your buoyancy sucks at any depth, you don't need to be doing the AN/DP class yet.

On the bright side, knowing and admitting it is half way to the solution.

IMO, rock solid buoyancy at any depth then you can start training for soft or hard overhead environments.

[kitsapdiver]

I figured I would throw this out there as well. I obviously think Rescue and Nitrox are your next two dives. Nitrox is a great gas for extending the NDL especially in the 80-100 foot range.

I think you're wise to hold off on tech classes or gear yet. A lot of people look at a class like "intro to tech" to get an understanding of the gear they'll need, and some basic instruction, but for those classes they expect you to have doubles, all the equipment and be on an immediate path to technical diving. A more suitable class might be something like Brian's UTD-Essentials Class. Essentials targets recreational divers with all types of long-terms goals. I've never actually taken it so I don't know but a few things I think you might get from it that would be useful are:

-A good discussion on gear configuation that would carry well into a tehcnical configuration if you went that day someday.
-A discussion on gas planning which is probably super important for the depths that your talking about.

Even if you talk to someone like Brian and determine that his teaching style or methods aren't suitable to your diving there are other instructors who teach gas management and equipment configuation "mini's". Bob Bailey comes to mind. For the most part those aren't necessarily certification classes and don't get you addditional depth ratings, or anything, but they are powerful nuggets of knowledge. There is a point after OW/AOW/Resuce where there just needs to be some maturation by means of exposure to equipment, methods, styles, etc and I think that's why people say.... JUST GET OUT AND DIVE!

[renoun]

In the near term perhaps you might consider looking into the suitability of the Dive Team's compressor for blending nitrox. If the air is clean enough you could acquire oxygen tank, a fill whip, oxygen clean your tanks/valves, and start partial pressure blending. Setting up a contentious blending system might be an other option too. There are certainly formal gas blending and equipment maintenance classes you could take if you desire more than self study and a copy of http://www.airspeedpress.com/newoxyhacker.html.

You are fortunate to have a relationship that includes a dive buddy but whatever training path you choose will to a certain extent determine who else you dive with. I think that there has been a variety of valid options presented but people have been dancing around one issue that has incited debate in the past. You are probably at a fork in the path where one direction includes team oriented diving (a friendlier way to describe DIR diving). Locally GUE, NAUI-Tech, and UTD offer training this end of the dive training spectrum and to a certain extent graduates from these programs dive together. There are other valid training programs from competent local instructors which represent different approaches. I think of the people around here to have developed relationships with Bob is pretty well equipped to offer an opinion of what might suit your personalities and goals.

Given your professed interest in deeper diving you may want to consider classes or informal workshops in the intermediate future that are an opportunity to audition a future tech instructor. Because one of you currently thinks that side mount is likely in the future that complicates the decision but side mount rules out GUE training progression beyond a Fundies. I'd also question why a decision to adopt a split between manifolded doubles and side mount would be best for the two of you.

The recommendation to go diving seems pretty universal. I know you probably haven't exhausted all of the Puget Sound diving but if your vacation time and budget allows you could consider a trip to one of the lodges in Northern BC, a road trip to Central California, or perhaps one of the budget friendly live aboard charters operating in the Channel Islands of California.

[renoun]

In the near term perhaps you might consider looking into the suitability of the Dive Team's compressor for blending nitrox. If the air is clean enough you could acquire oxygen tank, a fill whip, oxygen clean your tanks/valves, and start partial pressure blending. Setting up a contentious blending system might be an other option too. There are certainly formal gas blending and equipment maintenance classes you could take if you desire more than self study and a copy of http://www.airspeedpress.com/newoxyhacker.html.

You are fortunate to have a relationship that includes a dive buddy but whatever training path you choose will to a certain extent determine who else you dive with. I think that there has been a variety of valid options presented but people have been dancing around one issue that has incited debate in the past. You are probably at a fork in the path where one direction includes team oriented diving (a friendlier way to describe DIR diving). Locally GUE, NAUI-Tech, and UTD offer training this end of the dive training spectrum and to a certain extent graduates from these programs dive together. There are other valid training programs from competent local instructors which represent different approaches. I think of the people around here to have developed relationships with Bob is pretty well equipped to offer an opinion of what might suit your personalities and goals.

Given your professed interest in deeper diving you may want to consider classes or informal workshops in the intermediate future that are an opportunity to audition a future tech instructor. Because one of you currently thinks that side mount is likely in the future that complicates the decision but side mount rules out GUE training progression beyond a Fundies. I'd also question why a decision to adopt a split between manifolded doubles and side mount would be best for the two of you.

The recommendation to go diving seems pretty universal. I know you probably haven't exhausted all of the Puget Sound diving but if your vacation time and budget allows you could consider a trip to one of the lodges in Northern BC, a road trip to Central California, or perhaps one of the budget friendly live aboard charters operating in the Channel Islands of California.

[Joshua Smith]

Setting up a contentious blending system might be an other option too.

Ross, I consider you a friend- you're a good guy, and I think you generally give good advice to people. But, as a NWDC Moderator, I feel compelled to point out the fact that contentious blending is a highly controversial subject.

[pensacoladiver]

Josh. I'm glad you said something. I was biting my tongue.

[renoun]

I feel compelled to point out the fact that contentious blending is a highly controversial subject.

I'm not sure that contentious blending is the best option but it is worth contemplation, if only for the purpose of directing more self study into the issue. I've seen only seen CB done with personal compressors and a couple of dive shops. I'd be pretty surprised to see it done with a compressor run by a government agency, especially if it does double duty filling SCBA tanks for the fire department. I don't have any background on the current state of public safety diving but from what I understand about nitrox small public safety dive team with limited resources might benefit from longer NDLs.

Perhaps there is enough demand for nitrox in rural NE Washington that the application of significant elbow grease (oxygen compatible of course) to create a cooperative fill club is a realistic option if it is a hobby activity rather than a commercial/governmental enterprise. Now that the subject has been broached everybody is free to engage in appropriate due diligence. After all reading about something on the internet doesn't make one an expert.

[Joshua Smith]

I feel compelled to point out the fact that contentious blending is a highly controversial subject.

I'm not sure that contentious blending is the best option but it is worth contemplation, if only for the purpose of directing more self study into the issue. I've seen only seen CB done with personal compressors and a couple of dive shops. I'd be pretty surprised to see it done with a compressor run by a government agency, especially if it does double duty filling SCBA tanks for the fire department. I don't have any background on the current state of public safety diving but from what I understand about nitrox small public safety dive team with limited resources might benefit from longer NDLs.

Perhaps there is enough demand for nitrox in rural NE Washington that the application of significant elbow grease (oxygen compatible of course) to create a cooperative fill club is a realistic option if it is a hobby activity rather than a commercial/governmental enterprise. Now that the subject has been broached everybody is free to engage in appropriate due diligence. After all reading about something on the internet doesn't make one an expert.

I would like to buy some of that 02 compatible elbow grease.

[LCF]

My goodness, there are some people on this site I simply love to pieces.

[Nwcid]

I feel compelled to point out the fact that contentious blending is a highly controversial subject.

I'm not sure that contentious blending is the best option but it is worth contemplation, if only for the purpose of directing more self study into the issue. I've seen only seen CB done with personal compressors and a couple of dive shops. I'd be pretty surprised to see it done with a compressor run by a government agency, especially if it does double duty filling SCBA tanks for the fire department. I don't have any background on the current state of public safety diving but from what I understand about nitrox small public safety dive team with limited resources might benefit from longer NDLs.

Perhaps there is enough demand for nitrox in rural NE Washington that the application of significant elbow grease (oxygen compatible of course) to create a cooperative fill club is a realistic option if it is a hobby activity rather than a commercial/governmental enterprise. Now that the subject has been broached everybody is free to engage in appropriate due diligence. After all reading about something on the internet doesn't make one an expert.

The compressor is owned by the Sheriff's department and is used ONLY for the Dive Team and the Dive Club. There has been some recent changes (1st of the year) and the groups that were basically one in the same. There has been a split between the two groups but many members belong to both. The Club does have Dues but they are VERY minimal. There is $0 budget for the Dive Team. Many of the members struggle with paying normal bills let alone spending money on gear as we live in a very depressed area. Our county has a gross median income of under $35,000/year with almost 20% below the poverty level.

I have been doing some reading about ways to make Nitrox. From what I have read the "stik" method seems most practical/safe. IF this was to happen odds are I would end up buying the equipment and making some kind of deal with the Sheriff.

[pensacoladiver]

Ok. After the second post, Ross is either messing with my mind or I need to review the oxy hacker book and the dictionary.

[CaptnJack]

The compressor is owned by the Sheriff's department and is used ONLY for the Dive Team and the Dive Club. There has been some recent changes (1st of the year) and the groups that were basically one in the same. There has been a split between the two groups but many members belong to both. The Club does have Dues but they are VERY minimal. There is $0 budget for the Dive Team. Many of the members struggle with paying normal bills let alone spending money on gear as we live in a very depressed area. Our county has a gross median income of under $35,000/year with almost 20% below the poverty level.

I have been doing some reading about ways to make Nitrox. From what I have read the "stik" method seems most practical/safe. IF this was to happen odds are I would end up buying the equipment and making some kind of deal with the Sheriff.

So you can get oxygen there? or not?
Nitrox is pretty much the basic-est basic piece of staying longer underwater.

[Nwcid]

Not sure what you mean when you ask if I can get oxygen there.

There is not any there now. We do have a local gas supplier so getting it should not be a problem. Funding and/or an agreement with the sheriff will be the things that need worked out.