Computers (Part 2)

[Nwcid]

So I am back asking more questions about computers. Here is part 1 if anyone wants to read, http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19321

Here is where we are now. By spring we will be doing PP blending of Nitrox at home and possibly diving it when we vacation travel. There is a VERY strong chance that we will be doing some level of "tech" diving and getting into tri-mix this summer.

Since I hate re-buying gear I am trying to get the right stuff the first time. Right now we are using Veo 100's which work great for air but for nothing else. There are lots of good and Nitrox computers that can be easily had for under $500. I known in tri-mix people are using tables but there seems to be a lot of computers being used there also.

I feel it would be worthwhile to get the right computers we need the first time even though they will be more then we need right now. I see there are about 5-6 main tri-mix computers and reviews are all over the place on them. Would love to hear any comments or suggestions.

[Jeff Pack]

My liquivision Xeo is awesome, has CCR mode as well, and you can even get VPM deco modeling.

[Grateful Diver]

Next time you come out I'll let you try both my Liquivision X1 and Shearwater Petrel. I like them both, and they both have features I wish the other had.

... Bob (Grateful DIver)

[oldsalt]

Next time you come out I'll let you try both my Liquivision X1 and Shearwater Petrel. I like them both, and they both have features I wish the other had.

... Bob (Grateful DIver)

Bob: You are awesome. I respect your experience and knowledge, but admire your generosity in sharing your expertise and gear. And keep posting your pictures, please.
-Curt

[Nwcid]

Bob sounds awesome. I got the light (sorry I have not emailed you yet). I have not got a chance to play with it. When we are in Maui in 3 weeks is the first time I will really get to play with it.

We are going to come try and dive with you some time in Feb and get that Nitrox class done.

[pensacoladiver]

If you like the Shearwater, I am selling my Predator. It has about 50 dives on it, this was my backup for deco dives. Comes with the box, all software and Bluetooth... The same way it comes new.

$700 gets it shipped. I have an extra backplate with the bungee mounts installed for $10.

[defied]

I think you're are looking for new, and the same, but I figured I'd toss mine in to the ring. I've got a Nitek Trio I'm selling for $250.00 It's a great Nitrox three gas computer, but I only ever use it as a backup bottom timer. As I'm saving up the big bucks for an OLED bottom timer, I'm looking to offload this guy. I'll have pics up in the for sale forum soon enough. It's drying right now, though. 0]

D

[Nwcid]

Thanks for the offers. I will not be spending any money till after we get back from Maui at the end of Jan. Then we have to decide what class is going to be right for use, then time to look at equipment more. Was just looking for suggestions to narrow down what computers to research most and why.

[Mortuus]

If you are getting into trimix, I recommend foregoing the computer and just learning tables/ratio deco. Its way simple than it sounds. While I have not actually taken a T1 class, I have read up on ratio deco online, and I have not used a computer for recreational diving in the last 8 months or so. I personally feel much MUCH more comfortable knowing that I will always have the information ready to go in my head, as opposed to stored on a device that could fail. You could argue the use of a backup computer, but thats a lot of unnecessary spending.

[Nwcid]

Very interesting point. I have been doing some reading on the subject and it sounds like there is still heavy use of tables even with computers.

Maybe I am missing something in all this but why are computers so popular with tech divers if "nobody" uses them?

[Rooinater]

It's primarily the team divers that don't use/rely on computers. It's easier to keep the team on the same page and deco schedule as well. I believe the whole point of the argument is, don't be relient on the computer. How far you lean towards one way or the other will likely be determined by who/what agency you get trained through and your own opinion you develop. I've had a bottom timer and computer fail, so I don't have a lot of faith in either... Plan the dive, know how to rerun the numbers at depth in your head, and you can use the computer as a sanity check that all your numbers are right if you want to.

As far as tables go... Some just run the computer straight. All should really cut contingency tables, and plan the dive if you know what the dive plan is. Knowing how to adjust it on the fly is even better.

I'm leaning towards the xeo and x1. I like the size (shearwater takes up too much room for me) and tap function of liquivision computers. The screen on my xen beats the x1, but the x1 can run vplanner live which I check my plans against anyhow. While the xeo's rgbm model is a little more conservative than a 2+ conservative VPM-B. But 90% of what I see myself doing for dives only requires RD, or a modified rule of thumb for longer shallow dives, and not a computer. So in general, it'll be a really expensive bottom timer stuck in gauge mode. But I'm new to the tech world and am not that seasoned, but that's my opinion.

I would certainly go dive a few of the computers that people have offered to let you dive. You'll get a better idea if what matters to you.

[CaptnJack]

Find an instructor diving what you what want to dive, in the way you'd like to dive (whatever that might be). Talk to them and then decide on your strategy forward which will be a mix of gear and training. Although my general rule of thumb is do everything you'd like to do at your current level of training before thinking about more. In any case, I wouldn't worry about a computer for awhile.

[Jeff Pack]

if its a tech dive, you plan your dive on for example v planner, and use your computer as a backup, and for depth/time. I make a 2nd dive plan which is my +10% plan if something goes wrong.

I only used tables for calculating OTU's in my mod 1 course. But v planner does that for you as well.

as for backup computers, they are like your buddy's spare air, you dive with a buddy, you always have a backup computer (theirs).

[Nwcid]

All good points. That is why I am here asking questions before buying. One question leads to some answers and many more questions. Those new questions help me learn much more.

[Joshua Smith]

Very interesting point. I have been doing some reading on the subject and it sounds like there is still heavy use of tables even with computers.

Maybe I am missing something in all this but why are computers so popular with tech divers if "nobody" uses them?

Great question. The answer is that most technical divers DO use computers. We cut tables, too. And generally use them. But we like having the computer as well.

[defied]

Very interesting point. I have been doing some reading on the subject and it sounds like there is still heavy use of tables even with computers.

Maybe I am missing something in all this but why are computers so popular with tech divers if "nobody" uses them?

Great question. The answer is that most technical divers DO use computers. We cut tables, too. And generally use them. But we like having the computer as well.

I'd venture to say 50/50 instead of most.

D

[Joshua Smith]

Very interesting point. I have been doing some reading on the subject and it sounds like there is still heavy use of tables even with computers.

Maybe I am missing something in all this but why are computers so popular with tech divers if "nobody" uses them?

Great question. The answer is that most technical divers DO use computers. We cut tables, too. And generally use them. But we like having the computer as well.

I'd venture to say 50/50 instead of most.

D

It'd be impossible to prove one way or another, but Shearwater is selling tons of product to the market, And my guess is that none of them end up in gauge mode, because there are better and cheaper ways to do that.

[JayO]

If you are getting into trimix, I recommend foregoing the computer and just learning tables/ratio deco. Its way simple than it sounds. While I have not actually taken a T1 class, I have read up on ratio deco online, and I have not used a computer for recreational diving in the last 8 months or so. I personally feel much MUCH more comfortable knowing that I will always have the information ready to go in my head, as opposed to stored on a device that could fail. You could argue the use of a backup computer, but thats a lot of unnecessary spending.

I bought a computer just after OW and used it mostly as a BT. Around May when I started diving with yoos guys, the direction I wanted to pursue was BT and dive plan by tables/deco. Can't see why I'd go to relying on a computer at this point. Backup BT maybe.
That reminds me, I leant that computer to someone about 6 months ago...somewhere.
I think it all depends on what people want to do and what they're comfortable with.

[dlh]

Once you start doing multi-day dive trips with 3-4 dives per day you are going to need (and want) a computer. A computer can track your actual profiles and give you a far more accurate and reliable measure of your nitrogen exposure than tables can in the real world. I have never seen anyone use tables on a week long 20+ dive excursion... I know I would eventually lose track and screw it up. That said, use a computer that uses a modern and effective algorithm.

[Nwcid]

Since odds of us needing ai dive computer of that level for doing that many "tech" dives that often would be slim to none. Now we will be doing several air/nitrox dives over a weekend or even a week several times a year. Would a nitrox computer make more sense? I would rather buy once and cry once as the saying goes.

[Jeff Pack]

referred to above is not just for tech dives. You do 3 or 4 dives a day, deep recreational dives, long dives, a comp helps track. depending on your physiology, you still may want trimix for deep dives. Myself, I dont use trimix except for tec dives, but there was one deep wreck dive in Lake Washington within recreational limits, I wished I'd had trimix on that one.

[pensacoladiver]

Very interesting point. I have been doing some reading on the subject and it sounds like there is still heavy use of tables even with computers.

Maybe I am missing something in all this but why are computers so popular with tech divers if "nobody" uses them?

Great question. The answer is that most technical divers DO use computers. We cut tables, too. And generally use them. But we like having the computer as well.

I'd venture to say 50/50 instead of most.

D

It'd be impossible to prove one way or another, but Shearwater is selling tons of product to the market, And my guess is that none of them end up in gauge mode, because there are better and cheaper ways to do that.

You can put a predator in guage mode??? :-)

[Joshua Smith]

Very interesting point. I have been doing some reading on the subject and it sounds like there is still heavy use of tables even with computers.

Maybe I am missing something in all this but why are computers so popular with tech divers if "nobody" uses them?

Great question. The answer is that most technical divers DO use computers. We cut tables, too. And generally use them. But we like having the computer as well.

I'd venture to say 50/50 instead of most.

D

It'd be impossible to prove one way or another, but Shearwater is selling tons of product to the market, And my guess is that none of them end up in gauge mode, because there are better and cheaper ways to do that.

You can put a predator in guage mode??? :-)

Heck, Im not sure. I thought maybe you could, but maybe you can't.

[Jeff Pack]

Shearwater Predator, 650$ + shipping on TDS.

[Rooinater]

You can put a predator in guage mode??? :-)

Heck, Im not sure. I thought maybe you could, but maybe you can't.

The Petrel can, The Predator apparently not
http://www.shearwaterresearch.com/wp-co ... edator.pdf