Trimix vs rebreather

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Jeff Pack
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jeff Pack » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:06 am

remember for CCR you need to carry OC bailout gas and deco gas. I made that mistake in thinking going to CCR was carrying less tanks, but you have to plan your OC bailout and deco.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Jaksonbrown
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jaksonbrown » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:21 am

Jeff Pack wrote:remember for CCR you need to carry OC bailout gas and deco gas. I made that mistake in thinking going to CCR was carrying less tanks, but you have to plan your OC bailout and deco.


True.. But instead of having a 100# pack of doubles on my back, Ill have a 40# Meg.

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kdupreez
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by kdupreez » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:30 am

look - taking all the compressors, boosters, deco/bailout. etc. etc. out of the picure, the point is, you can buy a brand new rEvo hccr titanium with all the upgrades and dual shearwaters for around $12-14k MSPRP (Full loaded equivalent Megs are roughly the same) or you can buy a used KISS classic manual CCR and no computers for around $5k and there are new and used systems everywhere in between.

Similarly, you can buy top of the line OC rig with computers for $5-6k new MSRP or buy used tanks/regs/wings, etc. from craigslist for less than $1.2k and systems in between.

both OC or CCR trimix classes from zero to Tec2 level trimix will be around $4-5k

Then you simply use the dive shop for gas and dont worry about compressors/boosters..

you will recover your breather cost on helium gas over time if you do lots of trimix dives.

I buy 190cft of helium for $90, so I can dive for a very very long time on OC before I need to justify CCR's purely on cost.

But, If I need it as a tool for a job to go beyond 250ft regulalry, then I will justify the cost for that reason.. not to "save" me money, because it wont.

K
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by kdupreez » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:50 am

Jaksonbrown wrote:
Jeff Pack wrote:remember for CCR you need to carry OC bailout gas and deco gas. I made that mistake in thinking going to CCR was carrying less tanks, but you have to plan your OC bailout and deco.


True.. But instead of having a 100# pack of doubles on my back, Ill have a 40# Meg.


for all of 3 minutes as you walk them to the water/boat :p

this is however a very valid argument if you have back issues, I know lots of people who dive rebreathers for that very reason.
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by CaptnJack » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:19 am

Tank bling!
trimix bling!
CCR bling!
booster bling!
doubles bling!
Reg bling!
Bailout bling!
SCR!
CCR!
$10,000 no way its $5000



Wait the OP doesn't even have OC nitrox and is frustrated by short dives in the 110ft range...

Ummmm maybe getting basic nitrox might be a good idea before rambling on and on about trimix and constant ppO2 and whatever else you're all excited about... :smt064
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Jeff Pack
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jeff Pack » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:34 pm

Just go with a Hookah
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Mortuus
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Mortuus » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:53 pm

Isn't sidemount another possibility for those with back issues, or is it not..? Probably a dumb question, but I felt I should at least ask before I stick my foot in my mouth

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by spatman » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:14 pm

Mortuus wrote:Isn't sidemount another possibility for those with back issues, or is it not..? Probably a dumb question, but I felt I should at least ask before I stick my foot in my mouth


Yes, which is why both Dave and I dive side mount. But that's a topic for a different thread.
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Nwcid » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:03 am

This thread has taken an interesting turn. There is lots of good info and I have been reading up on things being talked about here as much as I can to get a better understanding.

Right now I am trying to get as much information as I can that will be helpful in the long run. We are not trying to do this overnight. It takes time, equipment and training to get there I have no illusions about that. What I don't want to do is start buying equipment and doing training that in the long run will not meet our goals. If I wanted to grow up to be a Dr I would be really silly for me to take law classes. This is no different. We have talked about our long term goals and trying to research our options. In this case there is no point in us buying jacket BC's, yellow octos and AL80's while taking classes to reach instructor in 100 dives as that is not our goal.

This is no different then when we did out OW class. They had us in Jacket BC's with Air 2 seconds on them and AL80's. Guess what we could have bought as it was what we knew at the time........ Instead we did lots of research and ended up with BP/W, long hose cold water regs and steel tanks. Sure this stuff cost more but is the more appropriate gear for what we wanted to do.

I want to know about equipment and the advantages/disadvantages of each to make informed choices. I want to have general direction so as we buy gear along the way we are not wasting money on stuff that will not be useful in the long run. On top of that with the closes dive shop almost 100 miles away we need (want) to be more self reliant. I can't just run down and get $5 Nitrox fills and pick the bottles up the next day. Initially we were not interested in Nitrox due to the lack of access to it in our area so it seemed like a waste of money. Now I found that is quite reasonable and cost effective to PP blend at home and we have a couple other people that are interested as well. They are already certified and we will be getting our certification this weekend.

I have been very busy the last week or so and not looking like it is going to get much better over the next week or so. I know there are a couple of people that have offered more information and I plan on taking them up on it. I do not have time on this trip to the west side but maybe next time I can make arrangements to meet up. I do remember seeing a while back there was a "demo-day" for rebreathers is there anything like that coming up again?

Knowledge is power and that is what I am after right now.

PS. I checked with the local gas supplier and right now a 2xx cf (I think he said 219) tank of He is $150 for a fill. He said right now they are not having too hard of a time getting it but it would take a week or so to get it.
John

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Jeff Pack
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jeff Pack » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:18 am

Make sure you are getting the right He, ie UHP He. (Ultra High Purity). and is that an owner bottle, or rented? Owner bottles are about 200$ each.

I got raped in the south end without a regular ordering account and owner bottles to fill. Praxair wouldnt sell at all without a regular account. Funny thing was, it was finally easier and quicker for me to get those 2 bottles of He, than it was to get 3 owner bottles of AvGas
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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kdupreez
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by kdupreez » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:39 am

UHP doesnt matter if you continues blend. I pay $90 for 191cft regular helium.. or $130 for 191cft UHP.
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Jeff Pack
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jeff Pack » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:02 am

what does CB or not have to do with helium purity?
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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CaptnJack
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by CaptnJack » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:43 pm

Jeff Pack wrote:what does CB or not have to do with helium purity?


Nothing.
But you also don't need UHP. In 6 years and thousands of cf of helium I've never used UHP and lived to tell the tale. The four 9s industrial specs are totally fine for me as the methane equivalent hydrocarbons are no better or worse than UHP.

Gotta test any helium to make sure its helium (and not argon or N2) regardless, screwups happen.
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Nwcid » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:48 pm

CaptnJack wrote:Gotta test any helium to make sure its helium (and not argon or N2) regardless, screwups happen.


Test with He analyzer or is there a different test needed?
John

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by CaptnJack » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:18 pm

Nwcid wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:Gotta test any helium to make sure its helium (and not argon or N2) regardless, screwups happen.


Test with He analyzer or is there a different test needed?


Put some in a bag and breath it, you'll know if its not helium.
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jeff Pack » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:19 pm

I couldnt even get 4-9's, it was UHP or nothing, so I grabbed the UHP.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by spatman » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:26 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
Nwcid wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:Gotta test any helium to make sure its helium (and not argon or N2) regardless, screwups happen.


Test with He analyzer or is there a different test needed?


Put some in a bag and breath it, you'll know if its not helium.


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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by selkie » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:26 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
Nwcid wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:Gotta test any helium to make sure its helium (and not argon or N2) regardless, screwups happen.


Test with He analyzer or is there a different test needed?


Put some in a bag and breath it, you'll know if its not helium.


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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by kdupreez » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:33 pm

CB send it through the filter stacks and should get unwanted stuff out if there are contaminants in the tanks or gas.

I do the same with regular 300cf O2 bottles when I CB.

I use abo for deco pp blending, but don't care about abo for CB

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jeff Pack » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:35 pm

ah, makes sense, thx!
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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CaptnJack
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by CaptnJack » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:38 pm

kdupreez wrote:CB send it through the filter stacks and should get unwanted stuff out if there are contaminants in the tanks or gas.

Don't count on it, the lightest most volatile hydrocarbons (which are narcotic) are not absorbed by AC.
And if its mistakenly a bottle of argon (same CGA 580 valve) you're completely screwed.
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by pensacoladiver » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:58 pm

Koos and Richard, THANKS. Great info here on HE and 02.

I just priced UHP here in Hawaii and the cheapest I can find is 490 bucks a bottle!!!

Likewise, ABO is 145 a bottle. Painful.

In gonna check the lower grades.

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by CaptnJack » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:31 pm

Yeah you can forget He in Hawaii. The grade doesn't matter the transport costs are just insane.
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by KneeDeep » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:45 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
Put some in a bag and breath it, you'll know if its not helium.


Think I found a new quote
The ocean is a lousy teacher. First you get a test, then the lesson.

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by kdupreez » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:28 am

remember, UHP is "laboratory" quality helium.. meaning you pay laboratory prices..

the regular helium and UHP goes through the exact same process here locally.. the only difference is that they claim to pull a vacuum before the transfer the UHP helium..

they actually do that anyways with all the helium because it all comes from the same source tanks.. its the same helium (at least with central welding) and use the same filling procedures / equipment.. there is no difference.

same applies to medical and welding grade O2.. they only difference with ABO is they send it through an additional drying stage..

but at $12 for 250cft of regular O2 and $14 for ABO, I usually take ABO when they have owner bottles, else I'll take regular O2 or medical..
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White

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