Trimix vs rebreather

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Jeff Pack
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jeff Pack » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:33 am

I had to get UHP He from Central, because thats all they had at the time, and that wasnt without some amount of effort to get even that. Now if I wanna rent bottles, they are more flexible. But even my last 2 owner bottles of ABO were a snit to get without some arm twisting.

They gladly rent you tanks and get them exchanged, but owner bottles seem to be some sort of rarity to them. Which for a any business(welding shop, whatever) I dont understand, because in a couple of years of rent you've bought the tank.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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pensacoladiver
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by pensacoladiver » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:31 pm

I'm getting a quote on industrial o2 now from air gas. We will see what shakes out.

On a lighter note, Aaron's dive shop in Kailua just announced their new membership plan... 100 bucks a year, 75 for military and you get 2 free fills of 32 or 36 every day, 7 days a week.

I called and spoke with the owner twice to verify. Seemed to good to be true and I joked that I would be getting 730 fills from him per year.

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jaksonbrown » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:06 am

pensacoladiver wrote:I'm getting a quote on industrial o2 now from air gas. We will see what shakes out.

On a lighter note, Aaron's dive shop in Kailua just announced their new membership plan... 100 bucks a year, 75 for military and you get 2 free fills of 32 or 36 every day, 7 days a week.

I called and spoke with the owner twice to verify. Seemed to good to be true and I joked that I would be getting 730 fills from him per year.


Now there is a recipe for quick bankruptsy! :rofl: :rofl: Burn through the $100 bucks in fills the first 2 weeks and then operate at a loss for the remaining 50 weeks. Brilliant!

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by pensacoladiver » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:37 am

I found out they operate a membrane, so that is a cost reducer (after the initial cost).

I have no doubt they are also betting on the constant flow of tourists to use them for a few weekends and then stop.

IMO, the biggest percentage of the diving population only goes diving a few times a year... Unlike the addicts on NWDC. :-)

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loanwolf
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by loanwolf » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:49 am

kdupreez wrote:remember, UHP is "laboratory" quality helium.. meaning you pay laboratory prices..

the regular helium and UHP goes through the exact same process here locally.. the only difference is that they claim to pull a vacuum before the transfer the UHP helium..

they actually do that anyways with all the helium because it all comes from the same source tanks.. its the same helium (at least with central welding) and use the same filling procedures / equipment.. there is no difference.

same applies to medical and welding grade O2.. they only difference with ABO is they send it through an additional drying stage..

but at $12 for 250cft of regular O2 and $14 for ABO, I usually take ABO when they have owner bottles, else I'll take regular O2 or medical..


I will give you a heads up you want to go with bottles that are pulled clean. Most of us who mix welding gas do so right in the bottles. So you may get a welding grade He tank that has had welding trimix CO2/Ar/He in it. So if they do not pull a vacuum on the bottle and just top it off with He you have gas contaminated with CO2 and Argon. Not good for diving. And no way to test it unless you have a lab.
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CaptnJack
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by CaptnJack » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:25 pm

There is a welding blend of 25% CO2 / 75% argon - but they don't put helium in that.
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Jeff Pack
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jeff Pack » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:57 pm

But He/Argon is mixed, and makes an awesome tig welding gas.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by loanwolf » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:01 pm

CaptnJack wrote:There is a welding blend of 25% CO2 / 75% argon - but they don't put helium in that.


Their are lots of different blends that even include krypton, xenon, and radon depending on what you are working with. and then many welders themselves use different blends to do the same work. All depends on how they want the shield gas to flow and their style of welding.
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jaksonbrown » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:36 pm

loanwolf wrote:
kdupreez wrote:remember, UHP is "laboratory" quality helium.. meaning you pay laboratory prices..

the regular helium and UHP goes through the exact same process here locally.. the only difference is that they claim to pull a vacuum before the transfer the UHP helium..

they actually do that anyways with all the helium because it all comes from the same source tanks.. its the same helium (at least with central welding) and use the same filling procedures / equipment.. there is no difference.

same applies to medical and welding grade O2.. they only difference with ABO is they send it through an additional drying stage..

but at $12 for 250cft of regular O2 and $14 for ABO, I usually take ABO when they have owner bottles, else I'll take regular O2 or medical..


I will give you a heads up you want to go with bottles that are pulled clean. Most of us who mix welding gas do so right in the bottles. So you may get a welding grade He tank that has had welding trimix CO2/Ar/He in it. So if they do not pull a vacuum on the bottle and just top it off with He you have gas contaminated with CO2 and Argon. Not good for diving. And no way to test it unless you have a lab.



Most any reputable O2 supplier/welding supply shop vacuum out all incoming bottles before filling them. The concept that they just top them off is rediculous. The liabilities would be huge.

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by loanwolf » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:22 pm

Jaksonbrown wrote:
loanwolf wrote:
kdupreez wrote:remember, UHP is "laboratory" quality helium.. meaning you pay laboratory prices..

the regular helium and UHP goes through the exact same process here locally.. the only difference is that they claim to pull a vacuum before the transfer the UHP helium..

they actually do that anyways with all the helium because it all comes from the same source tanks.. its the same helium (at least with central welding) and use the same filling procedures / equipment.. there is no difference.

same applies to medical and welding grade O2.. they only difference with ABO is they send it through an additional drying stage..

but at $12 for 250cft of regular O2 and $14 for ABO, I usually take ABO when they have owner bottles, else I'll take regular O2 or medical..


I will give you a heads up you want to go with bottles that are pulled clean. Most of us who mix welding gas do so right in the bottles. So you may get a welding grade He tank that has had welding trimix CO2/Ar/He in it. So if they do not pull a vacuum on the bottle and just top it off with He you have gas contaminated with CO2 and Argon. Not good for diving. And no way to test it unless you have a lab.



Most any reputable O2 supplier/welding supply shop vacuum out all incoming bottles before filling them. The concept that they just top them off is rediculous. The liabilities would be huge.


Cory welding grade they just top off. any other grade they vacuum out the contents and them put it into the welding bottles. Too much money to just vent to atmosphere. That is why you should not use welding grade gas for diving.

One of the best jokes to pull in a welding shop on a Monday is look at your buddies O2 for his torch if it is like 600psi or so, is to put in 400 or 500 psi of argon in it and sit back and laugh. as he is bitching and tearing his torch down for the third time all hung over you finally walk up smile and then they get it.
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Nwcid » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:37 pm

So that is an interesting thought.

So if people are mixing gasses in welding in the "rented" tanks then just topping them off isn't there a chance that would be an issue for the next user?
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Desert Diver » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:51 pm

loanwolf wrote:
Jaksonbrown wrote:
loanwolf wrote:
kdupreez wrote:remember, UHP is "laboratory" quality helium.. meaning you pay laboratory prices..

the regular helium and UHP goes through the exact same process here locally.. the only difference is that they claim to pull a vacuum before the transfer the UHP helium..

they actually do that anyways with all the helium because it all comes from the same source tanks.. its the same helium (at least with central welding) and use the same filling procedures / equipment.. there is no difference.

same applies to medical and welding grade O2.. they only difference with ABO is they send it through an additional drying stage..

but at $12 for 250cft of regular O2 and $14 for ABO, I usually take ABO when they have owner bottles, else I'll take regular O2 or medical..


I will give you a heads up you want to go with bottles that are pulled clean. Most of us who mix welding gas do so right in the bottles. So you may get a welding grade He tank that has had welding trimix CO2/Ar/He in it. So if they do not pull a vacuum on the bottle and just top it off with He you have gas contaminated with CO2 and Argon. Not good for diving. And no way to test it unless you have a lab.



Most any reputable O2 supplier/welding supply shop vacuum out all incoming bottles before filling them. The concept that they just top them off is rediculous. The liabilities would be huge.


Cory welding grade they just top off. any other grade they vacuum out the contents and them put it into the welding bottles. Too much money to just vent to atmosphere. That is why you should not use welding grade gas for diving.

One of the best jokes to pull in a welding shop on a Monday is look at your buddies O2 for his torch if it is like 600psi or so, is to put in 400 or 500 psi of argon in it and sit back and laugh. as he is bitching and tearing his torch down for the third time all hung over you finally walk up smile and then they get it.


You can pull that on your welding buddies because they are used to pure gas. My understanding is that welding grade oxygen has a higher purity standard than medical oxygen. With welding gas if it isn't right it may not work.

Brian

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Jaksonbrown » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:39 am

loanwolf wrote:
Jaksonbrown wrote:
loanwolf wrote:
kdupreez wrote:remember, UHP is "laboratory" quality helium.. meaning you pay laboratory prices..

the regular helium and UHP goes through the exact same process here locally.. the only difference is that they claim to pull a vacuum before the transfer the UHP helium..

they actually do that anyways with all the helium because it all comes from the same source tanks.. its the same helium (at least with central welding) and use the same filling procedures / equipment.. there is no difference.

same applies to medical and welding grade O2.. they only difference with ABO is they send it through an additional drying stage..

but at $12 for 250cft of regular O2 and $14 for ABO, I usually take ABO when they have owner bottles, else I'll take regular O2 or medical..


I will give you a heads up you want to go with bottles that are pulled clean. Most of us who mix welding gas do so right in the bottles. So you may get a welding grade He tank that has had welding trimix CO2/Ar/He in it. So if they do not pull a vacuum on the bottle and just top it off with He you have gas contaminated with CO2 and Argon. Not good for diving. And no way to test it unless you have a lab.



Most any reputable O2 supplier/welding supply shop vacuum out all incoming bottles before filling them. The concept that they just topridiculousis rediculous. The liabilities would be huge.


Cory welding grade they just top off. any other grade they vacuum out the contents and them put it into the welding bottles. Too much money to just vent to atmosphere. That is why you should not use welding grade gas for diving.

One of the best jokes to pull in a welding shop on a Monday is look at your buddies O2 for his torch if it is like 600psi or so, is to put in 400 or 500 psi of argon in it and sit back and laugh. as he is bitching and tearing his torch down for the third time all hung over you finally walk up smile and then they get it.



This is totally false. I even asked and verified with the company that I get my "welding gas" from. They confirmed that they totally vacuum out all incoming tanks prior to filling them. Do you have any idea of the liability of a company selling a bottle of O2 to a welder that was half full of acetylene or something?? Its a great scare tactic to get people to not breath "welding" O2, but the truth is, it is just as pure as "medical" O2.

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by Desert Diver » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:00 pm

This is totally false. I even asked and verified with the company that I get my "welding gas" from. They confirmed that they totally vacuum out all incoming tanks prior to filling them. Do you have any idea of the liability of a company selling a bottle of O2 to a welder that was half full of acetylene or something?? Its a great scare tactic to get people to not breath "welding" O2, but the truth is, it is just as pure as "medical" O2.

http://www.airproducts.com/products/gas ... ns-us.aspx

Check out the above link. Welding oxygen is not as pure as medical oxygen. It is required to be purer. In practice they are the same from the same source.

Brian

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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by loanwolf » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:09 pm

Desert Diver wrote:This is totally false. I even asked and verified with the company that I get my "welding gas" from. They confirmed that they totally vacuum out all incoming tanks prior to filling them. Do you have any idea of the liability of a company selling a bottle of O2 to a welder that was half full of acetylene or something?? Its a great scare tactic to get people to not breath "welding" O2, but the truth is, it is just as pure as "medical" O2.

http://www.airproducts.com/products/gas ... ns-us.aspx

Check out the above link. Welding oxygen is not as pure as medical oxygen. It is required to be purer. In practice they are the same from the same source.

Brian


New to me, I will ask airgas again they have always told me that they do not on welding grades only higher grades.
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by kdupreez » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:44 pm

Central does the same, they pull vacuum on all tanks.
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Re: Trimix vs rebreather

Post by CaptnJack » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:30 am

kdupreez wrote:Central does the same, they pull vacuum on all tanks.


Central told me (many years ago) they only pull one vacuum on welding/industrial grades and 2 vacuums on medicals. However they don't actually have a gas plant. Everything at Central is ultimately from Airgas, go figure.

I have never had an inert gas mix-up (since they all have the same cga 580 valve). O2 is O2, that's one reason why it got it own valve.
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