Salish Explorer no longer a dive charter

[Fordman]

Bandito charters Boat to the San Juans yesterday was great. Rick.is up there today again.

[Mattleycrue76]

Expensive boat ownership is a valid stereotype but not a hard and fast rule. I have owned three different boats over the last seven or so years. The first one I spent about $500 in maintenace and upkeep over a three year period, then sold it for $500 more than I paid for it. The second I had for about two years and I made a few hundred buck on it when I sold it. The one I currently have is worth 2-3k more than I have into it. It's all about doing your research and finding a good deal. A lot of people make the mistake of buying too much boat telling themselves that they'll be doing trips that they never end up making. Also, in the effort to save money, alot of new boat owner end up with Inboard/Outboard drives that give them all kinds of nightmares.

Boating can be fun, relatively cheap, and safe. It's why we have the highest per capita boat ownership in the country here in the PNW. Which also helps to explain the reason Charters struggle. Alot of the people who care about getting out on the water end up with their own boat. It can be done for less than the price of a single scooter.

[JasonDiver]

Thanks for the hopeful advice.

[CaptnJack]

Thanks for the hopeful advice.

Are you considering buying a boat?

[JasonDiver]

Someday maybe. But not until I can really afford one (and maybe a boat boy to care for it).

[jeffgerritsen]

Mattleycrue76,
What are you smoking? It must be some powerful stuff to impair you judgement!

Bought a Pearson 35 sailboat in 2008 for $20,000 - though it was a deal. Complete refit including new engine all installed by yours truly for $31,000 - though it was a deal. Sold the sailboat in 2012 for $30,000 - and knew it was a great deal! I'm not spending $500 a month for slip fee's, insurance, and maintenance.

And for a really great deal - $85 for two tank charter. Now that's a deal!

Expensive boat ownership is a valid stereotype but not a hard and fast rule. ...
Boating can be fun, relatively cheap, and safe. It's why we have the highest per capita boat ownership in the country here in the PNW. Which also helps to explain the reason Charters struggle. Alot of the people who care about getting out on the water end up with their own boat. It can be done for less than the price of a single scooter.

[Nwbrewer]

Mattleycrue76,
What are you smoking? It must be some powerful stuff to impair you judgement!

Jeff, you missed a critical part of Matt's post.

It's all about doing your research and finding a good deal. A lot of people make the mistake of buying too much boat ...

There is a HUGE difference between a 35 sailboat that you have to moor, and a 14-16' rib with a solid outboard that you store in your garage....

[CaptnJack]

There is a HUGE difference between a 35 sailboat that you have to moor, and a 14-16' rib with a solid outboard that you store in your garage....

In 5 years, over 300 dives, maybe 350 gallons of boat gas, 205 motor hours, 3 oil changes, 1 impeller change, 1 set of replacement trailer lights. Priceless.

Besides, when was the last time a charter went to the Possession Point ferry, or the West Point (4 mile) barges, or the Taylor Bay wreck, or numerous other sites...

[jeffgerritsen]

True, there is a BIG difference between a RIB and a 35 foot Pearson sailboat. However you can't sail around the Gulf Islands, Vancouver Island, and San Juan Islands with a RIB. IIRC Matt's post didn't mention a RIB. Plus a RIB has limited travelling distance, no facilities, and one will be concerned with launch locations within reasonable motoring distances of dive sites.

It is a compromise. However most people end up with a trailer-able 26 foot motor boat costing somewhere around the $25,000 - $50,000 range. $85 two tank dive is still a great deal IMHO.

Mattleycrue76,
What are you smoking? It must be some powerful stuff to impair you judgement!

Jeff, you missed a critical part of Matt's post.

It's all about doing your research and finding a good deal. A lot of people make the mistake of buying too much boat ...

There is a HUGE difference between a 35 sailboat that you have to moor, and a 14-16' rib with a solid outboard that you store in your garage....

[CaptnJack]

True, there is a BIG difference between a RIB and a 35 foot Pearson sailboat. However you can't sail around the Gulf Islands, Vancouver Island, and San Juan Islands with a RIB. IIRC Matt's post didn't mention a RIB. Plus a RIB has limited travelling distance, no facilities, and one will be concerned with launch locations within reasonable motoring distances of dive sites.

Do NOT try to sail and dive. Seriously this is a huge mistake. By the time you get anywhere the slack window is long gone, you'll struggle to anchor on dive sites, struggle to get divers in and out of the water, and have no deck space for gear either.

I can get my 16ft RIB to the San Juans about 23 hours faster then you can sail there from Seattle. And go against the current at Deception Pass etc.

Diving off a sailboat just doesn't work. If you got the coin and the time you can do both, but not really off the same boat. Its like buying a 98lb bungied wing for a single tank. Can be done, not recommended.

[Nwbrewer]

However most people end up with a trailer-able 26 foot motor boat costing somewhere around the $25,000 - $50,000 range.

Most people? We must travel in entirely different circles.

I used a small rib as an example, but a small fiberglass run-about will fill the bill for diving out of as well. We're not talking about going out to the outer banks, we're talking about accessing the sites most of the local charters do (or used to) run to. For that kind of activity you can certainly get into an adequate boat for just a few k.

[CaptnJack]

However most people end up with a trailer-able 26 foot motor boat costing somewhere around the $25,000 - $50,000 range.

Most people? We must travel in entirely different circles.

I used a small rib as an example, but a small fiberglass run-about will fill the bill for diving out of as well. We're not talking about going out to the outer banks, we're talking about accessing the sites most of the local charters do (or used to) run to. For that kind of activity you can certainly get into an adequate boat for just a few k.

I think people almost always have more "boat ambition" than they end up using, having the moeny or time for.

I downsized from a 34' trawler to a 15.5ft RIB and use it for 10x more diving. And when I'm not using it, it only cost me registration and tabs. Being <16ft there's not even any excise tax.

[jeffgerritsen]

Soooo True. Trying to dive from the sailboat was a herculean effort to say the least. The miss adventure in trying to dive from the sailboat was a factor in deciding to sell the sailboat. Sailing means you have plenty of time. In the end we found ourselves spending more time diving rather than sailing. Helping our children in college was the major deciding factor in selling the sailboat - we needed cash flow - not to mention sailboats are lousy diving platforms, even for just two people.

True, there is a BIG difference between a RIB and a 35 foot Pearson sailboat. However you can't sail around the Gulf Islands, Vancouver Island, and San Juan Islands with a RIB. IIRC Matt's post didn't mention a RIB. Plus a RIB has limited travelling distance, no facilities, and one will be concerned with launch locations within reasonable motoring distances of dive sites.

Do NOT try to sail and dive. Seriously this is a huge mistake. By the time you get anywhere the slack window is long gone, you'll struggle to anchor on dive sites, struggle to get divers in and out of the water, and have no deck space for gear either.

I can get my 16ft RIB to the San Juans about 23 hours faster then you can sail there from Seattle. And go against the current at Deception Pass etc.

Diving off a sailboat just doesn't work. If you got the coin and the time you can do both, but not really off the same boat. Its like buying a 98lb bungied wing for a single tank. Can be done, not recommended.

[jeffgerritsen]

How much does the 15.5 ft RIB with trailer cost, new and used? How many people can a 15.5 RIB carry with gear?

However most people end up with a trailer-able 26 foot motor boat costing somewhere around the $25,000 - $50,000 range.

Most people? We must travel in entirely different circles.

I used a small rib as an example, but a small fiberglass run-about will fill the bill for diving out of as well. We're not talking about going out to the outer banks, we're talking about accessing the sites most of the local charters do (or used to) run to. For that kind of activity you can certainly get into an adequate boat for just a few k.

I think people almost always have more "boat ambition" than they end up using, having the moeny or time for.

I downsized from a 34' trawler to a 15.5ft RIB and use it for 10x more diving. And when I'm not using it, it only cost me registration and tabs. Being <16ft there's not even any excise tax.

[LCF]

We did our homework, and I still think we did the best we could have done in picking a boat. I knew if we had a RIB, we wouldn't use it much at all, because neither of us likes being frozen while getting to dive sites. So we ended up with a 21 foot fiberglass ex-fishing boat, which has a very nice layout for diving and enough power in the outboard to get four divers where they want to go. We paid $8900 for it, and had it surveyed, and the first thing we found out when we got it home was that most of the wiring was essentially or actually nonfunctional. Richard was there for the "boat party" where we tore it all out and redid it. That didn't cost much, because we did it ourselves. But we had to buy radios and GPS/depth finder, which was a couple grand.

Since then, we have replaced the impeller, replaced the steering (which froze up) with hydraulic steering, replaced an axle on the trailer, and had several other major repairs that I don't recall offhand. Each trip to the "boat hospital" has run at least $1000. Through stupid pilot error, we ended up destroying the (very tired) canvas on the boat (blew out while trailering), and that would be another $2K to replace. I figure at this point, we have somewhere between 15 and 17K into a boat we could probably get 9K for if we sold it, and right now, we can't sell it because we haven't diagnosed the current problem with the engine cooling system.

$85 for a charter doesn't look like a steal. It IS a steal.

[CaptnJack]

How much does the 15.5 ft RIB with trailer cost, new and used? How many people can a 15.5 RIB carry with gear?

New from the builder, 5 years ago with exactly the console, layout, electronics, and power I wanted (+ trailer + tax) cost me about 24k total. I can carry up to 4 divers with 2 tanks each, 3 with doubles and modest scooters (no magnum gavins). I had a few warranty claims and some rewelding done on the console base (free), repaired the trailer tongue I bent ($200), and replaced lights + trailer wiring ($45), regular outboard service ($200), and had an elephant trunk fabricated ($750). That's about what I've put into it besides gas and $50 for tabs/yr in the past 5 years. And 60hp 4 strokes sip gas, I put way more in the truck per dive day than I ever have in the boat.

Used its (obviously) all about condition. I think its a good rule of thumb to assume you will have to replace any used motor and bargain accordingly. $1k per 10hp for a new outboard rigged is a rough guide too.

If I had to do it all over again I'd buy a used Hurricane 733 (OB powered) or 24ft Willard diesel I/O RIB or something like that. I see them refurbished in the $25k range. All located out of state however. And you'd need a large tow rig, at the time I bought mine I only had a Ford Ranger and I was coming off a 34ft trawler. I don't think the local sport fisher hulls in the ~24ft range have the weight capacity for dive gear or dive that well. I few of the larger ali hulls with transom doors can dive well if setup with diving in mind from the get go. But those are 100K+ new.

[CaptnJack]

PS my RIB HAS cost me more than $85 per 2 dive day amortized over its life so far. I'm not saying it hasn't.
I've also done dozens of sites charter boats don't go to at all, or on days when you couldn't possibly get a charter even if you could scrounge up enough people.

Even at $250 per 2 tank day (a WAG) its worth it to me. I can't stand doing the SSS (same shore shit) over and over again. :p

[jeffgerritsen]

I totally understand what you are saying here. We sold our Pearson at a $31,000 loss, however if one was to consider chartering a sailboat to the Gulf and San Juan Islands for six weeks, we did pretty good. Considering we averaged six weeks a year sailing around - three weeks summer vacation and three weeks due to spouses work schedule - three on, four off allowed us some very flexible scheduling. I will miss sailing the Pearson, she sailed very sweet. 30 kts winds and five foot wind waves while crossing the straits was no problem for her, and it was one hell of a ride. I'll never forget the experiences.

PS my RIB HAS cost me more than $85 per 2 dive day amortized over its life so far. I'm not saying it hasn't.
I've also done dozens of sites charter boats don't go to at all, or on days when you couldn't possibly get a charter even if you could scrounge up enough people.

Even at $250 per 2 tank day (a WAG) its worth it to me. I can't stand doing the SSS (same shore shit) over and over again. :p

[jeffgerritsen]

Thanks for verifying my SWAG guess on pricing.

How much does the 15.5 ft RIB with trailer cost, new and used? How many people can a 15.5 RIB carry with gear?

New from the builder, 5 years ago with exactly the console, layout, electronics, and power I wanted (+ trailer + tax) cost me about 24k total. I can carry up to 4 divers with 2 tanks each, 3 with doubles and modest scooters (no magnum gavins). ...

If I had to do it all over again I'd buy a used Hurricane 733 (OB powered) or 24ft Willard diesel I/O RIB or something like that. I see them refurbished in the $25k range. All located out of state however. ... But those are 100K+ new.

[Nwbrewer]

I can't stand doing the SSS (same shore shit) over and over again. :p

You're talking about me aren't you?

[CaptnJack]

I can't stand doing the SSS (same shore shit) over and over again. :p

You're talking about me aren't you?

LMAO actually no
But you do need to get out more (so do I so I knoweth about this...)

[CaptnJack]

I totally understand what you are saying here. We sold our Pearson at a $31,000 loss, however if one was to consider chartering a sailboat to the Gulf and San Juan Islands for six weeks, we did pretty good. Considering we averaged six weeks a year sailing around - three weeks summer vacation and three weeks due to spouses work schedule - three on, four off allowed us some very flexible scheduling. I will miss sailing the Pearson, she sailed very sweet. 30 kts winds and five foot wind waves while crossing the straits was no problem for her, and it was one hell of a ride. I'll never forget the experiences.

Most of us don't have the cashola to have 2 expensive hobbies. I sold my CHB because she was too slow to dive off of that much and I didnt want to spend all my vacation time on it. And the only way to make it work for me as to bascially live on it for vacations. I wanted to actually dive not go 'yachting'. We did go to Princess Lousia once and that was a great trip, but it was 10 days round-trip to/from Olympia and I think we did 6 dives for ~$800 in diesel.

[BillZ]

PS my RIB HAS cost me more than $85 per 2 dive day amortized over its life so far. I'm not saying it hasn't.
I've also done dozens of sites charter boats don't go to at all, or on days when you couldn't possibly get a charter even if you could scrounge up enough people.

Even at $250 per 2 tank day (a WAG) its worth it to me. I can't stand doing the SSS (same shore shit) over and over again. :p

IMHO being able to dive sites that the local charters don't go to is the biggest benefit of owning a boat. If I want an easy, worry free and relatively inexpensive day of diving I'll go out with the Banditos guys.

I paid $10k in February for my 2001 (repowered in 2010) 18ft RIB. So far I've spent $1000 on new electronics and about $500 in engine maintenance and the little stuff that a boat always needs. In a typical dive day I'll burn about 6 gallons of gas.

[Mattleycrue76]

Mattleycrue76,
What are you smoking? It must be some powerful stuff to impair you judgement!

Bought a Pearson 35 sailboat in 2008 for $20,000 - though it was a deal. Complete refit including new engine all installed by yours truly for $31,000 - though it was a deal. Sold the sailboat in 2012 for $30,000 - and knew it was a great deal! I'm not spending $500 a month for slip fee's, insurance, and maintenance.

And for a really great deal - $85 for two tank charter. Now that's a deal!

Expensive boat ownership is a valid stereotype but not a hard and fast rule. ...
Boating can be fun, relatively cheap, and safe. It's why we have the highest per capita boat ownership in the country here in the PNW. Which also helps to explain the reason Charters struggle. Alot of the people who care about getting out on the water end up with their own boat. It can be done for less than the price of a single scooter.

Whether you realize it or not, you are exactly said stereotype. And no, I'm not smoking anything. My 14ft RIB has a 50 hp Yamaha 4 stroke, dives two, sips gas, cruises at 28-32mph, costs me nothing to store (garage), and I'm in it less than 6k including color moving map GPS, Fish finder, and side scan sonar. The only dives that are tough to do are tech dives with doubles and scooters that require a live boat. For those I'd need an extra couple feet. In the three or so years I've had it I've changed the oil, put new spark plugs in and changed out the impeller. Probably less than $100. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. But just because you did doesn't necessarily mean everyone else does.

[jeffgerritsen]

Matt,
These are mostly tongue in cheek comments. Please don't take the comments too seriously. I didn't have a bad experience at all, however my experience is very typical of sailboat ownership. When one calculates the cost of chartering a sailboat for the quantity of time we used ours over the four year period, I came out way ahead in cost - and we travelled places and experienced sailing conditions many people only dream about. These are experiences we will remember for the rest of our lives.

I mainly tech dive as of late, so a 14 ft rib is way too small. For me, a 18 ft rib would be minimum size I'd consider. If I shopped around I could find one for about $10,000 with a mid time 40hp engine. A few mods for diving - mostly chart plotter, dive ladder, and some sun / rain protection while in drysuits. So probably a $12,000 to $15,000 price tag. At this point in my life, boat charters sound more attractive

Anyway enjoy your time on your rib, and I hope you continue to enjoy a very low cost of ownership.

Mattleycrue76,
What are you smoking? It must be some powerful stuff to impair you judgement!

Bought a Pearson 35 sailboat in 2008 for $20,000 - though it was a deal. Complete refit including new engine all installed by yours truly for $31,000 - though it was a deal. Sold the sailboat in 2012 for $30,000 - and knew it was a great deal! I'm not spending $500 a month for slip fee's, insurance, and maintenance.

And for a really great deal - $85 for two tank charter. Now that's a deal!

Expensive boat ownership is a valid stereotype but not a hard and fast rule. ...
It can be done for less than the price of a single scooter.

.... The only dives that are tough to do are tech dives with doubles and scooters that require a live boat. For those I'd need an extra couple feet. .... I'm sorry you had a bad experience. But just because you did doesn't necessarily mean everyone else does.