Treaure Hunt?

[Tangfish]

I will be there giving a talk on Rebreathers at 9:00 and will have several for show and tell.

I have also signed up as a volunteer for the rest of the day. Hope to see lots of you there, should be a great time!!!!!

Now, if I were there with a rebreather, I'd be scooping up all the booty and no one would know!

[Pinkpadigal]

I got there about 630am, my husband and daughter at 6am and all of us were running most of the day. I went back to the store, worked until about 8pm, then went home and crashed. I was so tired but totally worth it.

Thank you to the great volunteers who were there eariler than us, and stayed later to clean up. Thank you to Walt and his army of safety divers making sure that everyone came out of the water safely. Thank you to everyone who graciously put up with my ramblings on stage introducing all the prizes. While I was running around a lot, it was so great to see everyone! I had such a fun day and it seemed everyone was having a great time.

The A2Z divers brought tons of food and we had quite the spread, let me tell you. My staff and volunteers really were amazing in getting the social tent organized, helping out with gear and assisting getting people in and out of the water. Some of our divers won the nitrox anaylizer, trip to the San Juans, Trip to the Sydney dive expo and a BCD. Our store won the free charter and on September 29th, we are going diving with Bandito Charters. We got together and got a group photo which will be in NWDN in August.

Singledivers.com did a great job making sure everyone had a buddy. I finally got to meet John Rawlings in person! I gave him a big bear hug! (Hope that was ok, John!) I talked with Valerie a bit, got to finally meet Sgt Pepper, and even got a little sun! It was good to see Andy Lamb and connect with a few of my vendors. It was good to see and meet with the other shop owners and managers. I saw a lot of old friends, and that is the best part of the whole event.

I didn't spend a lot of time in the booths but it seemed everyone was doing well. It was great to see WSA, and Jim and Karlista getting everyone to sign up so we get our license plates. Dive for the Cure and Dive around the Clock were getting a lot of attention as well. Whites Drysuits, Bonica, Kapitol Reef and Aeris/Oceanic also were allowing demos. BC Resorts were talking to a lot of people about diving up north.

The diving wasn't good. It never is. You go, find a golf ball and get out. However, the last 2 divers out of the water found their golf balls 2 minutes into the dive, then continued on a fun dive. They found a red octo, then a small GPO. There was another group that also found a red octopus as well.

I talked to Rick Stratton breifly today. We talked about what worked, what didn't and the successes of the day. Rick told me that volunteers won about 25% of the prizes. While they didn't pay, they did work hard and it was good that a few of them got something for their hard work.

As for next year, it is early to tell. Rick said it will change next year. Expect the event to evolve into more of a show, similar to Chicago and Long Beach Scuba Shows. Again, it is too early to say, but as I get info, I will keep everyone posted.

[Tom Nic]

Hmmm... I'm thinking a good strategy for next year might be to bring a 130, grab a ball, then head deep for a good dive, come up 50 or 60 minutes later and avoid the crunch. :rr:

Would that be allowed? ...or was there a limit on where / how deep you could go? (pictureing those wonderful safety divers with polite smiles and big knives!)

[GillyWeed]

Tom..

There was a dive plan.. Walt went over it on the microphone when everyone was supposed to be assembled and listening. And you know you should always stick to the plan. The dive plan was no more than 40 minutes and no more than 60 feet. The safety divers on the beach probably would have had a heart attack if they would have seen bubbles out that far (far enough to be really deep). The dive was designed for ALL experience levels and so that's why there were limits. I do believe I saw people diving after the inital treasure hunt (a second dive) before the prizes were given out (there was a long time in between the dive and the prizes, proly a legistics nightmare what with ball registration and putting everyone in the computer).

Do me a favor and don't dive a different plan next year.. That way you wont see me chasing you down underwater with a worried look on my face. And if I had caught you and you were fine, just not sticking to the plan.. Well, I can give a pretty good lecture that would make your mother proud.

Don't stress out the safety divers!

[Tom Nic]

Don't stress out the safety divers!

That's why I asked!!

Love those safety divers with the big knives!

[Sounder]

Then again, people are free to do whatever dive they want to... Safety divers are great to have in the water but ultimately the responsibility is with the divers themselves.

I doubt a safety diver would be able to chase down and find divers that aren't sticking to the treasure hunt dive plan... I totally understand why a safety diver would be upset with someone but at the same time, they're a certified diver who may dive their own plan.

In my opinion, people should stick to the event plan if they're diving at the event location, but it's purely out of courtesy and respect for the event.

[GillyWeed]

Sounder wrote:

I doubt a safety diver would be able to chase down and find divers that aren't sticking to the treasure hunt dive plan... I totally understand why a safety diver would be upset with someone but at the same time, they're a certified diver who may dive their own plan.

Well with (I think I counted 6) boats and one, at least, had a team of divers ready to go, 3 kyacks, and 4 teams of safety divers on the beach looking for bubbles.. I think we could track you down.. But the point is that it is discourteous NOT to follow the dive plan of an event. Yes, everyone is certified to dive but when you are diving an event then there is liabilty to the event planners and that should be taken into consideration.

Sigh.

Let me say first that I bitch because I care. Yes we are free to do what we want, but as adults we have a responsibility to ourselves and other people to not just do something stupid just because we are free to do so. Otherwise we would just be living in anarchy. And I don't really think that people should purposely dive a different plan at an event like the treasure hunt just because they can. That's a careless attitude that doesn't bear well with being a good diver. But thats just my humble opinion.

[Sounder]

I agree with you such that I said:

In my opinion, people should stick to the event plan if they're diving at the event location, but it's purely out of courtesy and respect for the event.

I am saying, however, that there is an argument for someone wishing to dive the site where there was also an event happening, and not participate in the event. Is it any different than diving at Redondo and Cove 2 when there is an OW class (or three) going on? In that case, a safety diver trying to "rescue" someone could potentially create a dangerous situation out of one that wasn't.

I'm not trying to stir up a s*** storm but just find the idea of someone wishing to continue their dive after finding a golf ball interesting. At the point they leave the event dive plan, they are no longer participating in the event... or are they? Obviously there is a thick gray line between the yes and no, and I'm sure there are arguments for and against both sides.

What about the boats keeping the fishing boats away from the site? Is it a law or is it a polite request? Is there law enforcement maintaining an established perimeter and citing violators or is there volunteers in civilian boats (with just as much right to the water as the fishermen) saying "fishermen keep out - this is our scuba diving event so we own the water?" Every dive team doesn't have a dive flag to show their location and I'm unsure as to whether you can reserve the water like you can a picnic area at a park.

Again, NOT trying to start a s*** storm... just interested in the debate. As for me? I went to 3 Tree and had a great dive.

[GillyWeed]

I guess its all about context. Typically for OW classes there are not specifically designated safety divers. There might be dive masters there to add support to a class, but they are typically diving with the classes themselves.

I still maintain that it is irresponsible to go to an event like the treasure hunt where you have upwards of 150 people in the water at one time. Most of which don't do a lot of regular diving. And are also in a frenzy to 'get a ball' so they disregard every other diver down there and kick, slap and elbow others out of the way in order to get one. As well as stir up a bunch of slit (which I hear report actually wasn't that bad). However in an event like that one the potential for all of those things means that if a buddy team were to continue on with a dive outside of the perameters of the event. I am not talking about just finding a ball and coming up. We are talking about diving out of the specified dive plan of the event. There was a clearly marked area with boats and lots of dive flags (ok not one for each buddy pair but still quite a few) and the dive plan was no more than 60' and 40 minutes. No one said you couldn't find a ball and continue the dive. But the plan was to keep it to 40 minutes, inside the dive area, and no more than 60'. Otherwise you could be mistaken for someone who needed assistance. If you are passed 60'fsw when the perameters for the event are less than then even if you aren't diving with 'the event' it would be impossible to differentiate you with one of the 150 other divers in the water for said event. If you are passed the 40 minutes it could be argued that you are in distress and need assistance. Because someone who was listening to the dive briefing would have heard that there was a time limit. No one was forcebly pulled out of the water *smirk* , although that might have been fun, if they ended up out of the dive area. Although they were monitered very closely by those on the beach and in they boats and kyacks.. This is because probably 90% of the divers that dove this event were not regular Northwest divers. Those were the people that we were the most concerned about because they would be the ones to have problems typically, no? But again, impossible to tell the difference on the surface.

So I maintain that if you are a responsible diver you wouldn't dive outside the plan because that would just be saying, I don't care about the people who are looking out for me and everyone else. I am going to do my own thing. If you want to 'do your own thing' on a day of an event such as the treasure hunt, go to 3 tree and have a great dive, because that day Owen Beach was a place that you wouldn't be able to really do that and be a responsible diver IMHO.

And I don't consider this a storm.. Just a good debate..

One last thing, the boats who were volunteering their time were not there for law enforcement. They were there to control the situation so that fisher boats didn't run over a diver who had buoyancy controll issues and popped to the surface. This happend so many times I lost count. Same as the safety divers. Volunteering their time. Not as 'law enforcement' but as assistance.. I would have been really surprised if I would have had to help you Sounder (if you would have been there) because you are to my knowledge, a responisble diver and you do a lot of diving. I wasn't there for people like you.. I was there for those guys and gals who couldn't get their tanks on, or figure out why they couldn't reach their reg (because their hoses were all tangled), or want help on with thier fins, or stay down without bouncing up and down.. Those people needed someone else on the surface watching their back. Especially since most of them lost their buddies. sigh.

Kind of like our Pizza nights when you ask that no one dives deeper than the capacity of their tank.. You're not a cop, you're just ensuring the safety of the group, because you care. If they are there for your planned event, then as responsible divers they need to respect your perameters. And don't dive outside of them, even if their C-cards say they can..

[Sounder]

Again, re-quoting myself before I go into this...

In my opinion, people should stick to the event plan if they're diving at the event location, but it's purely out of courtesy and respect for the event.

It sounds to me that, in summary, the event coordinators are counting on common courtesy of participants, non-participant divers, and other non-participants including fishing boats to allow the event to occur without incident. Ideally this would be all you needed, but there are those who either don't care or, worse, actively refuse to listen to what they hear as "someone else telling them what to do." I suppose this discussion is moot because people like that are just out there and there isn't anything the event coordinators can do about it and I've had my question answered about the logistics of the event itself.

Your response caused me more questions...

This is because probably 90% of the divers that dove this event were not regular Northwest divers.

Where did they come from? Were they primarily in wetsuits or did they have drysuits? Rental gear or privately owned gear?

They were there to control the situation so that fisher boats didn't run over a diver who had buoyancy controll issues and popped to the surface. This happend so many times I lost count.

Really?! Wow, this is nothing like I had pictured the event. Then again, I figured it would be local divers too and assume there would be a few buoyancy issues but "so many times you lost count?!" This seems like it has the potential for serious safety issues. Was this expected?

I would have been really surprised if I would have had to help you Sounder (if you would have been there) because you are to my knowledge, a responisble diver and you do a lot of diving.

I would have been surprised too, but then again you never know when you'll need help. It's nice to have people there to catch you if you fall... that's why we dive with buddies. (more of a comment than a question)

I was there for those guys and gals who couldn't get their tanks on, or figure out why they couldn't reach their reg (because their hoses were all tangled), or want help on with thier fins, or stay down without bouncing up and down.. Those people needed someone else on the surface watching their back. Especially since most of them lost their buddies. sigh.

This is just plain upsetting. These were "certified divers" who had a depth of 60fsw included in their dive plan. No buddy checks? Lost buddies? I can't believe these issues happened enough to write about them... wow.

Kind of like our Pizza nights when you ask that no one dives deeper than the capacity of their tank.. You're not a cop, you're just ensuring the safety of the group, because you care.

We're just a big group of friends going diving. I have no liability or responsibility for anyone or anything at these events. My reminder of the "rule of thumb" is just a reminder. The diver is responsible for their dive profile. (again, just more of a comment)

[gomi_otaku]

My buddy and I (set up together by Singledivers) found out golf balls within the first 2 minutes. Then we went out to 60 feet, turned parallel to shore, and started a sweep pattern that got pregressively shallower, looking for the treasure chest (remember that part of the dive? my buddy almost forgot and was wondering why we were still diving)
Nobody mentioned that there were *tons* of fried egg jellies all over the place, I found one over 12" across. Some other small stuff, blob top jelly, crescent gunnels, etc. No octos for me.
We did also have the same encounter with blind divers who blundered straight into us (I could have understood if they were staring at a compass, it seemed more like they were either just poor divers or rude as hell...maybe Canadians? #-o )
And even though they made it abundantly clear to everyone in the briefing that you were to take only one golf ball, I saw people with goody bags full. I do agree, taking them and hiding them would definitely have cut down on the chances of anyone else winning! This being my first year I didn't think of it.
And I did hear Rick Stratton talking about something different next year, holding the dive on site, but having the show at a hotel location. I don't see how that's gonna work, nobody wants to throw travel between locations into the mix when it is already hectic enough! And how would one go about demoing anything, like a drysuit or the HUD mask?
gomi_

[GillyWeed]

Hey Sounder.. I didn't mean to pass over your opinion.. We are in agreement that it is out of courtesy and respect. And I think you are agreeing with me that it is irresponsible to do otherwise. But as you did read from my post and were shocked.. There were a lot of irresponsible poeple already there. So my fear would be that divers who do do a lot of diving would come there to that event and push the envelope (because they can).

Sounder wrote:

Quote:
This is because probably 90% of the divers that dove this event were not regular Northwest divers.

Where did they come from? Were they primarily in wetsuits or did they have drysuits? Rental gear or privately owned gear?

My 90% might have been an exageration. But I do think that most of the divers in the water that day do not dive on a regular (at least monthly) basis. Quite a few did have dry suits but I really was trying to pay more attention to the tanks falling off their backs than what exposure suit they were wearing. Plus it was hard to tell when they were on the beach which were regular divers and which were normally warm water once a year divers in rental gear. I didn't ask each one if they owned their own gear, but everyone seemed to have the proper attire for NW diving (except the guy who dove with out a hood). I had at least 30 people right in front of me getting ready to go into the water. And I had 3 divers whom I had to personally help. 5 or 6 who wouldn't take my help and a few who just couldn't seem to get it together with their buddy at all.

Sounder wrote:

Quote:
They were there to control the situation so that fisher boats didn't run over a diver who had buoyancy controll issues and popped to the surface. This happend so many times I lost count.

Really?! Wow, this is nothing like I had pictured the event. Then again, I figured it would be local divers too and assume there would be a few buoyancy issues but "so many times you lost count?!" This seems like it has the potential for serious safety issues. Was this expected?

Yes this unfortunately was expected. Thus the reason for so many safety divers. Not to mention my leads in the safety teams who were back off the beach ready to take over if one of the beach safeties had to swim out and get some one. The Safety leads were none other than our own Zen Diver and Jackieg also Sixgill Sonya. These are experienced rescue people with loads of training. I think the beach divers were the muscle and the Safety leads were the brains..

Sounder wrote:

Quote:
I was there for those guys and gals who couldn't get their tanks on, or figure out why they couldn't reach their reg (because their hoses were all tangled), or want help on with thier fins, or stay down without bouncing up and down.. Those people needed someone else on the surface watching their back. Especially since most of them lost their buddies. sigh.

This is just plain upsetting. These were "certified divers" who had a depth of 60fsw included in their dive plan. No buddy checks? Lost buddies? I can't believe these issues happened enough to write about them... wow.

Lost buddy syndrome was common. Yes there were a few that came out of the water together but I would say most of the divers that came out of the water in front of my section of beach 3 out of 5 didn't come back with their buddies. Some would pop up, look at me only when I shouted at them, give me the ok, and then drop back down!?! That was unsettling in itself, because if you are ok and at the surface why are you dropping back down.. Well because they were looking for their buddy that's why. Then they would come back up a few minutes later still no buddy, forget again to give me the "I'm ok" and start in sans buddy. We required people to check in with another beach safety coordinator (not geared up) I had our own enchantmentdivi behind me checking divers in. And the divers were asked to stay in the shallows and wait to check in with their buddies. Some folks were waiting for a while. And 60 fsw profile is supposed to be suitable for a basic OW cert. I believe that SSI and PADI share this as the standard, I am not sure about the other organizations.

I am pretty sure that the event planners expected exactly what happened that day. I know from hearing stories about passed treasure hunts that there have been times when the safeties had to actually be called into serious action. I think this time there was one guy who came out of the water a little disorientated and was a little stressed out, but thank goodness we didn't have any serious injuries or have to make any rescues.

I felt it was a cool event on the whole. If you look at the big picture, what with the vendors and the big picnic and all that. But I wouldn't ever dive this as a participant.. It was a cluster you-know-what, if there ever was one. Some of us really thought that there might be some serious violence down below. I believe that one of the parts of the dive briefing was not to stab a fellow diver with your dive knife. I know that Walt was being funny, but in one of those I am going to make a joke about something, but I am really serious about it ways..

gomi_otaku wrote:

We did also have the same encounter with blind divers who blundered straight into us (I could have understood if they were staring at a compass, it seemed more like they were either just poor divers or rude as hell

That was the norm that I heard from most people coming out of the water. Some was worse and some better. And most people were taking more than one golf ball which just reminded me that they didn't pay attention to the dive brief. sigh.

Sounder, maybe next year you can safety with me and then you can see the situation first hand. It's hard to put into written words just how depressingly sad and scary it was to watch. From the point of view of a diver who dives regularly. I am not saying I am a pro, but I am up to date on my skills which I think was the numero uno thing that was the issue that day. It was an eye opener for me for sure.

[Sounder]

Sounder, maybe next year you can safety with me and then you can see the situation first hand. It's hard to put into written words just how depressingly sad and scary it was to watch. From the point of view of a diver who dives regularly. I am not saying I am a pro, but I am up to date on my skills which I think was the numero uno thing that was the issue that day. It was an eye opener for me for sure.

Hmmm... we'll see. I might volunteer to sit in my boat flying a flag and watch the event from a distance. Then eat hamburgers with everyone when the dive was over. I don't like the idea of being in the water with that many people or feeling responsible if something went wrong.

[GillyWeed]

Sounder wrote:

Hmmm... we'll see. I might volunteer to sit in my boat flying a flag and watch the event from a distance. Then eat hamburgers with everyone when the dive was over. I don't like the idea of being in the water with that many people or feeling responsible if something went wrong.

Well ok, that's fair enough. I don't mind being there to help someone who needs it. So I guess that's why I was there. But what I really didn't like was seeing all of the potential problems.. It was messing with the law of averages that something was going to go wrong in my opinion. That was really hectic. But like I said, we didn't have any major issues (knock on wood).

Maybe next year will be really different.. But I doubt that they'll be able to do the actual diving part with much change. There will still be a bazillion divers in the water at the same time, a lot of whom will have not dove since the treasure hunt this year, and all fighting for a golf ball or the treasure chest or whatever.

[Tom Nic]

Wow...

If my schedule had permitted I would have been there as a participant.

After reading this exchange I am not so sure...

Some of it sounds fun, but overall it sounds just plain dangerous.

[Sounder]

Wow...

If my schedule had permitted I would have been there as a participant.

After reading this exchange I am not so sure...

Some of it sounds fun, but overall is sounds just plain dangerous.

Yup. I think I'll be diving somewhere else next year too.

[BbbleMkr]

Hey! Whoa-ah! Stop right there. If the _good_ divers don't go, then who will be left? Huh? Answer that one.

I had a great time. It was sunny, the Q was good and friends were all around. It's not a good dive, but then it's not really supposed to be a good dive. Don't let a few silt storms keep you away if you'd like to go.

dd

[Zen Diver]

The Treasure Hunt is at least as much about socializing with dive friends as it is the dive itself. As said above, it's not meant to be a photo-shooting, rare-critter-hunting kind of dive, it's an "Event." (not that that excuses poor practice, but let's look at it for what it is)

-Valerie

[Sounder]

Decided... I will be at the next treasure hunt... holding down a BBQ and ensuring everyone is fed appropriately.

[Tom Nic]

Woo Hoo! Surface Support! I'm In!

(Maybe I can bribe some brave soul to get me a golf ball...)

[GillyWeed]

Tom Nic Wrote:

(Maybe I can bribe some brave soul to get me a golf ball...)

Maybe you can volunteer to help and then you will get your own golf ball fair and square.

[Diver_C]

I'd probably be game to do it again. Easily the best part of the day was everything but the dive. Great food, seeing people, watching people, and chatting with people. Having been through the diving portion of the event, I have a better understanding of what to expect (even though I was told beforehand from veterans what do expect, living through it is an experience). Sure visibility wasn't that great. But after 15 minutes looking for the chest, gave up, but that didn't stop me from looking at the cool sea creatures. Seeing people kicking into the bottom and trailing danglies was rather comical. Yes, I did get repeatedly kicked in the first 15, but it was okay. Had I been carrying my camera, I would have had all sorts of cool pictures and am tempted to bring it next time. Arguably the visibility was better there than on Hood Canal this weekend, and I wasn't using an HID light at the Hunt. But anyhow, it was a fun day, and the best part was hanging out with friends, and chatting with all the people; that's why I would like to do it again.

Rich

[Tom Nic]

Tom Nic Wrote:

(Maybe I can bribe some brave soul to get me a golf ball...)

Maybe you can volunteer to help and then you will get your own golf ball fair and square.

Unless they change the rules about the golf balls!

[Cera]

A few things to add, although I didn't end up going as previously stated!
The first year I went there was a group of people who grabbed balls and buried them to increase thier odds of winning. (f*&#$g losers!) which totally turned me off from the diving portion. The second time we went we volunteered, which was fun and we met lots of nice people. But it is really a frightening experience. First of all, too small of an area (the first year I was kicked in the face no fewer than 7 times) and noone in our party found any golf balls!
Secondly, You don't have to feel to upset about the person who "won the trip" to Papau, it is only a coupon and it will cost them thousands of dollars to actually redeem.. Last year my husband "won" a trip on the liveaboard out of Indonesia- for one person. It would have cost us over $5000 to use it for my spot on the boat and our flights! NOT such a great prize!
Finally, I am SOOOO jealous of the signed Andy Lamb book! Nice job!

[Pinkpadigal]

But anyhow, it was a fun day, and the best part was hanging out with friends, and chatting with all the people; that's why I would like to do it again.

Rich

Ditto...thanks Rich!