Dive site mooring

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Teejv
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Dive site mooring

Post by Teejv » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:18 pm

Does anybody have of a list of the sites that currently have mooring bouys on them? When WSA originally started installing them they put in 19 but I know the number has increased since then. On another note if anyone here is interested in doing some deco dives from a boat send me a message.

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YellowEye
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by YellowEye » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:26 pm

Hi!
Welcome to nwdiveclub!

Hmm, I'm not sure but my guess is the number of moorings has gone down, as there's not as many charters out there maintaining them (particularly in the hood canal). You may want to ask WSA.

The better sites that I know that have them are Sunrise, Shangri-La, Flagpole. Salt Water SP and likely a few others have them too but I don't consider them standout sites. There are none in the San Juans where the diving can often be better. Take turns with live boats out there.

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Get out of cove 2 and explore!

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ScubaJess
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by ScubaJess » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:57 am

Welcome to the club! How many divers can fit in your boat? :)

If you do shore dives too you should head down to Redondo on Thursday nights. We usually meet at 6:30pm.

Happy Diving!!
Live Long And Prosper!!!

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Teejv
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by Teejv » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:27 am

ScubaJess wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:57 am
Welcome to the club! How many divers can fit in your boat? :)

If you do shore dives too you should head down to Redondo on Thursday nights. We usually meet at 6:30pm.

Happy Diving!!
I have a 17’ Arima that can dive 3 people, probably more like 2 with doubles and deco bottles

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Jeff Pack
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by Jeff Pack » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:59 pm

The wsa website has a complete list of buoys
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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ljjames
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by ljjames » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:35 pm

Could someone share a link to that buoy list? I can’t seem to find it on the https://www.wascuba.org/ website....
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YellowEye
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by YellowEye » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:53 pm

We went to Shangri La today. No mooring. Come to think of it I don't think I've seen a mooring there since there used to be a charter there. We were able to anchor, no live boat required. Less than ideal but works.
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Jeff Pack
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by Jeff Pack » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:51 pm

ljjames wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:35 pm
Could someone share a link to that buoy list? I can’t seem to find it on the https://www.wascuba.org/ website....
Interesting, they took down the link
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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CaptnJack
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by CaptnJack » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:38 am

Jeff Pack wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:51 pm
ljjames wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:35 pm
Could someone share a link to that buoy list? I can’t seem to find it on the https://www.wascuba.org/ website....
Interesting, they took down the link
They aren't maintaining them either sadly

The only one I use regularly is on Brinnon PInnacle, as of a month ago its still there and in good condition
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.

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ljjames
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by ljjames » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:16 pm

So what is the purpose then?

Putting stuff in and not maintaining is actually detrimental (as we've found with green infrastructure) to the bigger picture.

Is it lack of funds? Lack of will? Lack of interest? Lack of general diver involvement? Moving on to next shiny object? (I'm as guilty of that as the next person)

If its any of the above, then perhaps a discussion about what the Northwest diving community -wants- from their advocacy group might be in order. maybe we don't know what we want, maybe WSA isn't an advocacy group, and that is OK too, but if we could start a list of the things that concern us most (that we can actually have impact on) it might be helpful.

such as:

WSA installed buoy/anchor maintenance
public shoreline access
advocating for more marine reserves (in addition to artificial reef stuff)
rotating beach or UW cleanups that bring the WHOLE diving community together (similar to the multi-club dive days of old)
help meditate the underwater scooter issue at Edmonds Underwater Park

maybe my expectations are off base and that's fine too...
CaptnJack wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:38 am
Jeff Pack wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:51 pm
ljjames wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:35 pm
Could someone share a link to that buoy list? I can’t seem to find it on the https://www.wascuba.org/ website....
Interesting, they took down the link
They aren't maintaining them either sadly

The only one I use regularly is on Brinnon PInnacle, as of a month ago its still there and in good condition
----
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Jeff Pack
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by Jeff Pack » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:06 pm

I've donated money, since I use their buoys, but if they are no loner doing anything, I'll donate elsewhere.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Jeff Pack
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by Jeff Pack » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:14 pm

I found this in the wayback machine for 2011....

Permanent Mooring Buoys

Dive Type: Boat dive

Project Type: Habitat Protection & Dive Safety

Description:

Several dive charter operators, mostly in central and south Puget Sound, have indicated a need for permanent mooring buoys on dive sites they visit regularly.

The objectives of permanent mooring buoys are:
Elimination of damage associated with anchoring on dive sites.
Safe and accurate placement of divers onto the sites.
There are fifteen sites total that will benefit from permanent mooring buoys. The list includes:

South Sound Sites:

- Sunrise. 2 buoys. One of the top 2 dive sites in south Puget Sound. Renowned for octopus.
- Z's Reef. 1 buoy.
- KVI Towers. 1 buoy.
- Dalco Wall. 2 buoys. 120 foot vertical wall.

Hood Canal Sites:

- Pulali East Wall.1 buoys.
- Pulali South Wall. 1 buoys.
- Pulali West Wall. 1 buoys.
- The Pinnacle (aka Seamount). 2 buoys. This is the most popular dive site in central Hood Canal.
- Black Point. 1 buoy.
- Arrowhead (aka Wolf Eel Wall). 1 buoy.
- Flagpole. (aka The Knuckle). 2 buoy. This is in a marine protected area and special because of the cloud sponges found here.
- Elephant Wall. 1 buoy. This site is in a marine protected area.
- Rosie's Ravine. 1 buoy.

North Sound Site:

- Possession Point Ferry. 2 buoys. Wooden Ferry sunk intentionally.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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CaptnJack
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by CaptnJack » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:11 am

WSA is really just a couple of (active) people who I suspect are exhausted. I know they have been focused on habitat and reef structures lately and there's probably no (grant) money to maintain the buoys like there was to install them.

There are a whole bunch of non-profits struggling with the same issues. Lack of volunteers, lack of funds, just a few people doing all the work, people "expecting" something or some sort of return on their donations, what's in it for me thinking, when they don't "get anything" they donate elsewhere, the only pronounced and visible actions come via grants and when the grant dries up or ends there's little or no funding available for maintenance or continuity. This isn't a unique issue.
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ljjames
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by ljjames » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:39 pm

Which is my point to a degree.... we need involvement from the diving community and divers will get involved with causes that speak to them. Maybe WSA needs to figure out what it is that we-the-people want to get us engaged and involved. Sounds to me like people want some help with neighborly situations for shore access as a start.

Non profits and advocacy groups must hear their constituency if they are to survive.

We the divers and benefactors of their efforts (like the mooring buoys) also need to own our lack of community involvement, because as we know this stuff takes a village. Marine projects are never ‘one and done’. Trails and buoys need planned maintenance, and should not be installed as a one time effort of a club or group without plans in place for maintenance that are feasible. This is why I believe having an advocacy group like WSA could be so beneficial. Take the ownership from one group that may or may not last/maintain the participation necessary for say... cove 2 line maintmence
CaptnJack wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:11 am
WSA is really just a couple of (active) people who I suspect are exhausted. I know they have been focused on habitat and reef structures lately and there's probably no (grant) money to maintain the buoys like there was to install them.

There are a whole bunch of non-profits struggling with the same issues. Lack of volunteers, lack of funds, just a few people doing all the work, people "expecting" something or some sort of return on their donations, what's in it for me thinking, when they don't "get anything" they donate elsewhere, the only pronounced and visible actions come via grants and when the grant dries up or ends there's little or no funding available for maintenance or continuity. This isn't a unique issue.
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by FlyinV » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:46 pm

Elephant Wall, Flagpole and Rosies in Hood Canal are all in pretty good shape.
Wonder if a gofund me for bouy cleaning would generate enough to clean then up.
I'd certainly join the crew in Hood Canal keeping the buoys clean.

I wish we put in the little sliders on the ropes like they did up in Canada. Makes it easy to clean that part.
Jeff V
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by ljjames » Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:41 pm

I wonder if WSA has a document anywhere with the costs for maintenance? This would be super helpful if we decide to run a fundraising campaign.

If they don’t does anyone (Randy?? Mike? et al) have an annual maintenance estimate?

Boat fee (buy the boat for the day, right now we can’t be asking captains to PAY to be involved, even for such a good cause) at very least cover the cost of fuel, crew and maintenance for the day of work.
Offer to cover gas fills for divers participating
Offer to cover the fuel costs/travel for participating volunteers
Snacks for divers participating

Additional equipment, (we could fabricate rings for in situ installation?)
Ground tackle replacement items (shackles, mousing wire, tools)

I’m just spitballing here, but again this is why having a central non profit being the hub for stuff like this is awesome.

Volunteer stuff is great but it does not have the best history of longevity unless you have a key person driving the bus year after year after year (i.e. Bruce Higgins) It works well for a year or two but then volunteers get tired, their lives change up, and unless people are actively soliciting fresh volunteers constantly (from ALL dive clubs around the region via outreach) i feel like we won’t get the demographic diversity needed to help keep -all- the buoys maintained. We can’t expect one team of volunteers from one area to happily maintain -all- the buoys for the region without some real incentive, therefor making sure there is some geographic diversity and regional ‘ownership’ if you will of their buoy.... (or perhaps the WSA plan WAS to hand off respective buoys to the local dive shop/club and it just didn’t pan out...)
FlyinV wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:46 pm
Elephant Wall, Flagpole and Rosies in Hood Canal are all in pretty good shape.
Wonder if a gofund me for bouy cleaning would generate enough to clean then up.
I'd certainly join the crew in Hood Canal keeping the buoys clean.

I wish we put in the little sliders on the ropes like they did up in Canada. Makes it easy to clean that part.
----
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by Jeff Pack » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:23 pm

FlyinV wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:46 pm
Elephant Wall, Flagpole and Rosies in Hood Canal are all in pretty good shape.
Wonder if a gofund me for bouy cleaning would generate enough to clean then up.
I'd certainly join the crew in Hood Canal keeping the buoys clean.

I wish we put in the little sliders on the ropes like they did up in Canada. Makes it easy to clean that part.
Dalco was ok 6 months ago.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Jeff Pack
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by Jeff Pack » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:28 pm

Enough people around with dive boats that if fuel is covered, could be used.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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CaptnJack
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by CaptnJack » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:28 pm

cleaning is not the issue it's the lines chaffing and the buoy breaking loose.
1" line and the 1/2" 18-10 chain is expensive too, never mind the actual new buoy.
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by FlyinV » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:47 am

Now it would never happen but it would be nice if a tiny part of the boat ramp fees the state collects could go towards maintaining the buoys.
I would guess the boat ramp fees are there to cover boat facilities but since .01% of the boat ramp use is divers and 100% of the buoy use is by divers they wouldn't want to give us any money.

Ya I forgot about the actual parts of the buoys like ropes and chains that wear out.... so an ongoing funding source for the buoys is going to be needed or soon we just won't have them anymore.
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by ljjames » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:48 pm

This.

I have been helping maintain a buoy for a little old lady (family friend) more past several years now and its always something with chafing, shackles, buoy breaking loose, etc... I replace the shackles what feels like every year or so, the upper chain every 2-3 years, last year the buoy vanished so we replaced it this past fall only to have it vanish again during the big winter storms. This year we are reaching the end of life on the big chain links used for attachment to anchor (train wheel with big links welded onto it before it was dropped). Basically its always something and yes it does cost money, hence thinking it would be awesome if a non profit (arguably the one who helped put them in in the first place) would be the hub for fundraising, project management and $ distribution.
CaptnJack wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:28 pm
cleaning is not the issue it's the lines chaffing and the buoy breaking loose.
1" line and the 1/2" 18-10 chain is expensive too, never mind the actual new buoy.
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by ljjames » Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:28 am

So the way i read it, we need to figure out a way to advocate for street end access ourselves.

Additionally, the big question is, if they are OUR outlet for scuba activism in the northwest, how does WSA increase local diver involvement. Not for the membership fees as much as for the bodies to spread the word, do the physical work, take ownership of projects. Why do we the people not rally around and step up to help the non profit that is ‘ours’? (I have some ideas, my question is a bit rhetorical, but lets actually discuss this as adults to see if maybe there is a way to help)

I also can’t tell from this response if there is money for buoy maintenance or if we need to be thinking about a fundraiser for maintenance costs?? We should probably figure this out before thinking about putting in more? $200 isn’t much but X 15 ends up being a bit of a crunch for a small non profit.

Offering up private boats is great but without anyone managing the work, its a bit of free for all and won’t really help with systematic maintenance (which is what needs to happen for the buoys if my reading is correct) as I’ve stated before, we scuba divers are great at rallying for a one off, but we suck at organizing for the long haul unless there is a charismatic leader beating the bushes non stop and leading by example in a way that inspires folks to continue turning out Week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade. (Bruce Higgins comes to mind yet again).

———— from James Trask, posted on his FB....

Well, I tried to get this on the Northwest Dive Club website but cannot get in. So, here is the response to their questions on what WSA is doing on the mooring buoys we installed.Dear Northwest Divers and Northwest Dive Club members,

As the President of WSA, I wanted to directly respond some of your concerns. There are thousands of official and unofficial mooring buoys out in the Puget Sound but only 15 of them are maintained by WSA. All of the ones we maintain, have been in the water for several years although we are in the process of repairing one at Sunrise ($1100) that appears to have been vandalized and the ones at Possession have disappeared. They too will be replaced. With the help of Jim Arnold with Alpha Marine, we semi-regularly check these. Many of the other buoys that you mentioned in the chat are actually not WSA buoys. For your information, our buoys are intended to be long-term buoys and meet all proper permitting requirements. Each buoy to install cost $3200 and we need about $200 annually to maintain them or more. BTW, it would take at $25 per individual member 120 memberships to pay for just one initial install of a buoy.
WSA has been listening to the community but, as was correctly pointed out by others on this chat, we are a small group of 77 members, of which only a handful are active in WSA. The rest of the membership are critical to help spread the information and although they may feel unimportant at times are important as a voice in the community. The financial reality is that although membership is necessary to our success and our ability to reach the diver community, monies need to come from other sources. For example, the initial $80,000 in monies for the buoys was raised by WSA through grants and donations including a couple dive clubs and even as a marriage gift.
The Rocky Reef project at Redondo is an example, where WSA worked with Senator Karen Kaiser to get a $500,000 earmark to build the reef and the related educational needs. We are working on over 9 other sites in partnerships with various organizations and entities including the City of Port Angeles for a reef near Ediz Hook, with Washington State Parks with a site near Camano Island State Park, and multiple others. One of the reasons that Redondo has been getting the lion's share of the attention is the dedication of several volunteers and the support of Highline College's MaST Center. Another non-board member has been leading the organizational push to work on cleaning up Beaver Lake while WSA joined with the MaST and SR3 last September for the second annual underwater clean-up at the Des Moines Fishing Pier.
It is important that WSA hear from local divers and we have strived to do that, but we do need to be better. For example, on the Redondo Project, we held three pre-planning meetings with the public and then last summer an update session. In total, approximately 200 people attended. We have also worked to do other public outreach such as a booth at the Issaquah “Salmon Days”, that although obviously not just divers, helped spread the message of diving to the masses. We have also had booths at all of the Dive Expo's but as you likely know that hasn't occurred in several years. Sadly there isn't a real effective way to spread the word about what is going on. Our Facebook page which has in the past year doubled its likes to 550 thanks to a couple members . Our newly updated webpage which was redone by another volunteer is another avenue but requires people to actively go there.

All of these take time and money. More importantly they take a couple divers whether WSA members or not willing to spend their valuable time with a project of personal importance using WSA to help leverage help. We would love to be doing so much more but without you being involved our effectiveness is limited. Currently much of the leadership team lives in the south King County area. One goal of WSA is to get strong cores of members in each geographical area to help push and promote projects that are regionally important. With your help we can work to improve the ability of divers to do what they love...DIVE.
Now the buoys that WSA have installed are:
Possession Point Ferry – 2 Rosie’s Ravine – 1
Dalco Wall – 1 Sunrise - 2
Zee’s Reef – 1 KVI Tower – 1
Flagpole – 1 Broken Leg – 1
Pulali Point – 1 Pinnacle - 1
Elephant Wall – 1 Saltwater State Park – 2 Marker buoys – 2
I just updated the lease on the buoys with DNR for another 5 years. We will have to put in newer style buoys from here on out to meet the new requirements which means we will need to get more funding to replace them as needed.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Jim Trask, President of the Board,
Washington Scuba Alliance
Last edited by ljjames on Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by Gdog » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:39 pm

Thank you Laura for passing this on to our board.

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Re: Dive site mooring

Post by H20doctor » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:33 pm

Yep I remember years ago one of the issues was buoys kept disappearing because of vandalism... So we don't need it or money to get a buoy put in and then somebody destroyed it and made it disappear...
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