Hunting Octo's? Is this for real?

General banter about diving and why we love it.
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BASSMAN
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Post by BASSMAN »

kjc,
How many times have you done this?
Or did you just come up with this off the top of your head?
Hi, my name is Keith, and I'm a Dive Addict! :supz:
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Sounder
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Post by Sounder »

... I still vote for the accidental flood.


I'm willing to work on the WDFW petition too - as many have said, the worst that can happen is they say "no." I think, that if approached correctly, the petition could be successful... but I think it'll be the approach that determines the response.

There are just as many headaches, maybe even more, in legally building or getting a public agency to build more habitat. That's another great cause and something people could get behind.
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CaptnJack
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Post by CaptnJack »

WDFW does not systematically count octopi. Roland Anderson at the Seattle Aqarium has published his volunteer count data here
http://www.hawaii.edu/cowielab/Tentacle ... 02005).pdf
Article starts on page 34. Not exactly oodles of octopi.

WDFW is not interested in creating new habitat for any particular species. That is a non-starter. They would probably be interested in restoring habitat which is degraded, although its hard to see degraded octopus habitat.

Rather than shifting the habitat/species mix in the muddy fjord that is Puget Sound, WDFW would vastly prefer to manage the consumptive human uses of marine resources so that people are in balance with the natural distribution and productivity of our marine waters and habitat.

A season on taking octopus (say during the times they are on eggs) or additional limits on taking octopus (where populations are depleted or stressed like the limits for Hood Canal) are much more aligned with current WDFW management strategies.
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Grateful Diver
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Post by Grateful Diver »

Guess we'll just have to continue resorting to sinking old dishwashers and toilets in the dead of night ... [-X

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kjc
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Complaint Process

Post by kjc »

BASSMAN wrote:kjc,
How many times have you done this?
Or did you just come up with this off the top of your head?
Once!

I was shocked and disgusted.

I won my case!

The person was banned for one year.

I won the right upon observing such similar behavior in the future to call the police and that person would be ticketed. I had to have my papers with me to document to the Police Officer that it was legitimate.

I never spoke to that person again, although I saw him several times. I never bothered to bring my papers along with me either.

I was just disgusted and mad.

I learned of the process by taking a class in "Civics" in High School years ago.

Individual citizens have rights and a process! Its to everybody else's advantage to keep you in the dark.

"Civics" per se isn't taught much any more, but it should be.
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Piles of Cinicism

Post by kjc »

CaptnJack wrote:
WDFW is not interested in creating new habitat for any particular species.
Well....

May the pulpit call upon the cryer CaptnJack'er!

When you petition a conservative bureaucrat with prayer, what kind of answer do you think you will get?

Pass the basket to the Captn!

There are TONS of habitat building and habitat restoration examples that are part of the contemporary environmental culture.

http://www.earthshare.org

Check out Washington State's list of links to groups that contribute to the idea.

NONE of them are for any underwater habitat building!

It just hasn't been done yet!

As far as octopus are concerned, I consider them an apex preditor. Designing and building habitat for an apex preditor with as complicated of a biological matrix as octopus appear to have is a far different cry then building habitat for sessile invetebrates.

If you or anyone else follows through with requesting restrictions on the fisheries I won't oppose it.

I think the idea is a myopic, knee jerk reaction to a stimulating Craigs List post and a motivational distraction away from reality.
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Sounder
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Post by Sounder »

Personal insults aren't necessary.
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John Rawlings
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Re: Piles of Cinicism

Post by John Rawlings »

kjc wrote: Well....

May the pulpit call upon the cryer CaptnJack'er!

When you petition a conservative bureaucrat with prayer, what kind of answer do you think you will get?

Pass the basket to the Captn!
kjc wrote:
I think the idea is a myopic, knee jerk reaction to a stimulating Craigs List post and a motivational distraction away from reality.
I'm not even really certain what these statements mean. Still, it sure looks like a few NWDC members got up on the wrong side of bed this morning....

To get away from the overly nasty and mean-spirited discussion on solo-diving I decided to take a look over here on this thread. Looks like harshness is the order of the day here, too, and it's getting quite tiresome.

Cannot the members of this club discuss an issue without sticking knives into each other? :pale:

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Grateful Diver
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Post by Grateful Diver »

I think you're right, John ... somebody sprinkled anger-dust in the water this morning ... [-X

Hopefully it'll dissipate soon ... I prefer this place friendly ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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Joshua Smith
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Re: Piles of Cinicism

Post by Joshua Smith »

John Rawlings wrote:
Looks like harshness is the order of the day here, too, and it's getting quite tiresome.

Cannot the members of this club discuss an issue without sticking knives into each other? :pale:

- John
Apparently f*cking not. Same rules apply here as anywhere else on this board: play nice, or I delete. :angryfire:
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Grateful Diver
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Re: Piles of Cinicism

Post by Grateful Diver »

Nailer99 wrote:
John Rawlings wrote:
Looks like harshness is the order of the day here, too, and it's getting quite tiresome.

Cannot the members of this club discuss an issue without sticking knives into each other? :pale:

- John
Apparently f*cking not. Same rules apply here as anywhere else on this board: play nice, or I delete. :angryfire:
Maybe it's time to trade in your nail gun for a sawsall ... :salute:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Threats and ultimatums are never the best answer. Public humiliation via Photoshop is always better - airsix

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CaptnJack
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Post by CaptnJack »

Kevin, once again you have spoken in such bizarre, cryptic language I bascially have no idea what you are talking about.

Rather than dismiss MY efforts to involve a clearly interested segment of the public in the management of their public trust natural resources through democracy, maybe you should take your own lesson in civics eh?

When was the last time you volunteered at Edmonds? When was the last time you even submitted an HPA to build your missing marine habitat?

I have not undertaken either because they are misguided efforts IMO. Kinda like barging salmon around the Snake River dams as an effort to enhance those populations rather than just letting the Snake be a proper river.

The best way to manage octopus in an urban environment is to let them be, not somehow think we understand their population dynamics and productivity. We don't; the 1 per day in the current rule is a wild historic guess. The fact that Roland Anderson's few years worth of counts is the limit of extant data is pathetic (for a supposedly managed resource).

ps if you actually read the workparty suggestions here:
http://www.esw.org/help/volunteer.html
You'll see that every one of them is for some type of restoration, mostly removing non-native vegetation or planting trees and shrubs at restoration sites. NONE are for the creation of new habitat either upland, wetland, or freshwater.
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spatman
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Re: Piles of Cinicism

Post by spatman »

Nailer99 wrote: Same rules apply here as anywhere else on this board: play nice, or I delete. :angryfire:
ok, ok! i won't post any more jokes about pigs! i swear!


:salute:
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Joshua Smith
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Re: Piles of Cinicism

Post by Joshua Smith »

spatman wrote:
Nailer99 wrote: Same rules apply here as anywhere else on this board: play nice, or I delete. :angryfire:
ok, ok! i won't post any more jokes about pigs! i swear!


:salute:

Pigs are OK. No more goat jokes or I ban you for life! :bootyshake:
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Grateful Diver
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Re: Piles of Cinicism

Post by Grateful Diver »

Nailer99 wrote: Pigs are OK. No more goat jokes or I ban you for life! :bootyshake:
oink ... that would be ba-a-a-a-a-a-d ... [-X

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Dmitchell
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Post by Dmitchell »

I have to agree with KJC on this, I think this thread is a knee-jerk reaction to some guy on CL jerking your chain.

I spent a little time reading your WDFW proposal process and it's very similar to ours. You as the public submit your proposal, WFDW staff will do cursory research on the topic and make a recommendation to the Commission. The commission then will meet, take testimony and make a decision.

I don't know all the details on WDFW but I can tell you Alaska DFG is a research agency in as much as it is a regulatory agency. The research determines the regulation.

To submit a proposal without any sound biology to back it up won't get you anywhere. WDFW is there to manage the resource. If there is no evidence of the resource being exploited or a population decline, then there is no valid reason to close fishing for a "unclassified species". Their business is to get people out hunting and fishing. Without hunting and fishing, they don't serve a huge purpose.

Rather than submitting a blanket proposal to close all fishing which IMO will get you laughed out of their office. How about taking a more flanking approach.

Suggestions:

1. limit catch to 2 per year and require a harvest record. Similar to what they seem to require for Dungeness crab.

2. Ban diving for octopus Then your only opponent is the diving community of which the "octo divers" must be a small group of your own community.

or

Since WDFW is a research agency push them to develop a research program relating to the GPO and habitat.

Lastly, I've been told that they used to fish them commercially here by using big clay pots long-lined together.

Maybe that's the key to habitat, you guys could build a bunch of clay pots and scatter them around to provide habitat.

Dave
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Grateful Diver
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Post by Grateful Diver »

Dmitchell wrote: Rather than submitting a blanket proposal to close all fishing which IMO will get you laughed out of their office. How about taking a more flanking approach.

Suggestions:

1. limit catch to 2 per year and require a harvest record. Similar to what they seem to require for Dungeness crab.

2. Ban diving for octopus Then your only opponent is the diving community of which the "octo divers" must be a small group of your own community.

or

Since WDFW is a research agency push them to develop a research program relating to the GPO and habitat.
I like it ... especially #2 ...
Dmitchell wrote: Lastly, I've been told that they used to fish them commercially here by using big clay pots long-lined together.

Maybe that's the key to habitat, you guys could build a bunch of clay pots and scatter them around to provide habitat.

Dave
Sure ... hell, I'd even furnish the thing if it'd attract more octos to the popular dive sites.

On the other hand, I think these critters are smarter than some folks give 'em credit for. One of the first things I noticed when I started scootering is that once you get outside the areas where most people dive, you see a lot more octopus dens. I think they just got tired of all the lights and noise and moved to a quieter neighborhood ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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lamont
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Post by lamont »

Dmitchell wrote: Suggestions:

1. limit catch to 2 per year and require a harvest record. Similar to what they seem to require for Dungeness crab.

2. Ban diving for octopus Then your only opponent is the diving community of which the "octo divers" must be a small group of your own community.
I thought we were discussing #2. I think a case could be made to WDFW that its likely that scuba divers hunting for octos, "successfully", are using chemical irritants and that this closes a loophole where its easier to just ban hunting for octos with scuba than it is to produce evidence that a scuba diver was using irritants to hunt GPOs. They've already got the ban on using irritants so they're already about 49% of the way there. It'd be nice to find hard evidence of the use of chemical irritants, but you're not going into a court of law and testimony on how hard it is to dislodge a GPO from its den using scuba gear and muscle would probably go a long way to tipping them in favor of such a ban.
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CaptnJack
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Post by CaptnJack »

My initial thought on the proposal was that octopus generate more revenue via non-consumptive uses than through consumptive uses.

However you are right that portions of WDFW view their role as to promote hunting and fishing opportunties. And portions view their role as stewards of the public resources. Its a group with inherently conflicted responsibilties. (E.g. the harvest of octopus is already prohibited in Area 12 (Hood Canal) due to the seasonal low DO stress there.)

But the Commission has a legislative mandate to preserve the public resources first and allow sustainable harvest second. And they don't really have any staff dedicated to unclassified invertebrates (even if they are relatively top predators). I bet WDFW and the Commission haven't put a dime towards species without a constituency. And yes, the CL offer made me and a bunch of other people realize that divers are a constituency for more than shrimp and lings.
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CaptnJack
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Post by CaptnJack »

Grateful Diver wrote: On the other hand, I think these critters are smarter than some folks give 'em credit for. One of the first things I noticed when I started scootering is that once you get outside the areas where most people dive, you see a lot more octopus dens. I think they just got tired of all the lights and noise and moved to a quieter neighborhood ...
I have seen alot at a couple of MPAs I frequent.
kjc
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Thank You!!!

Post by kjc »

Dmitchell wrote:I have to agree with KJC on this, I think this thread is a knee-jerk reaction to some guy on CL jerking your chain.

Dave
Thank you!

I agree with you too!

That's all it ever was.

Everything else shared here was just conservative enpowerment self talk.

That is what needs to stop.
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TCWestby
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Post by TCWestby »

Just goes to show, some dumies just don't deserve to get into the water. Last Summerat Muk, well before crab season I saw 2 divers checking the crabs they caught, All were small and some females. I asked the guys if they were going to release them and basically got a mind your own F_____g business.

I wish I'd of had my cell with me to call the cops

I've see this alot there, I now have a DFW warden on my speed dial.
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Pez7378
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Post by Pez7378 »

More Pig jokes please!

Guy walks into a bar with an octopus. He sits the octopus down on a stool and tells everyone in the bar that this is a very talented octopus. He can play any instrument in the world. He will bet $50 on it. A guy walks up with a guitar and sits it beside the octopus. The octopus starts playing better than Jimi Hendrix. So the man pays his $50. Another guy walks up with a trumpet. The octopus plays the trumpet better than Dizzy Gillespie. So the man pays his $50. A third guy walks up with bagpipes. He sits them down and the octopus fumbles with it for a minute and sets it down with a confused look. "Ha!" the man says, "Can't you play it?" The octopus looks up at the man and says, "Play it? I'm going to F#$% it as soon as I get those pajamas off."

SAVE THE OCTOPUS!
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Joshua Smith
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Post by Joshua Smith »

Pez7378 wrote:More Pig jokes please!

Guy walks into a bar with an octopus. He sits the octopus down on a stool and tells everyone in the bar that this is a very talented octopus. He can play any instrument in the world. He will bet $50 on it. A guy walks up with a guitar and sits it beside the octopus. The octopus starts playing better than Jimi Hendrix. So the man pays his $50. Another guy walks up with a trumpet. The octopus plays the trumpet better than Dizzy Gillespie. So the man pays his $50. A third guy walks up with bagpipes. He sits them down and the octopus fumbles with it for a minute and sets it down with a confused look. "Ha!" the man says, "Can't you play it?" The octopus looks up at the man and says, "Play it? I'm going to F#$% it as soon as I get those pajamas off."

SAVE THE OCTOPUS!

LMAO!
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divernick
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Post by divernick »

This one's more of a hog joke...



TO: Honorable Secretary of Agriculture
Washington, D.C.

Dear Sir;

My friend, Ed Peterson, over at Wells, Iowa, received a check for
$1,000 from the government for not raising hogs. So, I want to go into
the "not raising hogs" business next year.

What I want to know is, in your opinion, what is the best kind of
farm not to raise hogs on, and what is the best breed of hogs not to
raise? I want to be sure that I approach this endeavor in keeping with
all governmental policies. I would prefer not to raise razorbacks, but
if that is not a good breed not to raise, then I will just as gladly not raise Yorkshires or Durocs.

As I see it, the hardest part of this program will be in keeping an
accurate inventory of how many hogs I haven't raised.

My friend, Peterson, is very joyful about the future of the business.
He has been raising hogs for twenty years or so, and the best he ever
made on them was $422 in 1968, until this year when he got your check
for $1000 for not raising hogs.

If I get $1000 for not raising 50 hogs, will I get $2000 for not
raising 100 hogs? I plan to operate on a small scale at first, holding
myself down to about 4000 hogs not raised, which will mean about
$80,000 the first year. Then I can afford an airplane.

Now another thing, these hogs I will not raise will not eat 100,000
bushels of corn. I understand that you also pay farmers for not raising corn and wheat. Will I qualify for payments for not raising wheat and corn not to feed the 4000 hogs I am not going to raise?

Also, I am considering the "not milking cows" business, so send me
any information you have on that too.

In view of these circumstances, you understand that I will be totally
unemployed and plan to file for unemployment and food stamps.

Be assured you will have my vote in the coming election.

Patriotically Yours,
Farmer Joe,
The Lactose Free Dairy & Hog Farm

P.S. Would you please notify me when you plan to distribute more free
cheese.
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