Leading/following buddy skills

General banter about diving and why we love it.
Post Reply
gcbryan
Submariner
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:25 pm

Leading/following buddy skills

Post by gcbryan »

Since there is a "good diver" thread I thought I would start one regarding "good buddy" skills and the difficulties of "leading" and "following".

Ok, a good buddy communicates well, has decent skills, etc. I'll just concentrate on the practicalities of "leading" and "following". Others can comment, add other skills, or whatever.

To me whether leading or following the divers should be side-by-side for the most part so that with a slight turn of the head all divers can see each other. Following doesn't mean being behind the lead diver since although you can see him/her they can't see you.

I've also noticed that newer divers (and sometimes not so new) when following don't appreciate what is involved in leading and so when they get a chance to lead don't really get it. Leading is not going anywhere you want to at any speed with no notice. Leading is also not swimming without constantly making sure you know where the other diver is. Both divers have this responsibility.

The lead diver should generally swim slowly enough to be predictable and to not be too far away should one diver not glance at the other and become separated for a second. If a change in direction is going to occur the lead diver should communicate that rather than just change the direction.

I find that for a newer diver the best way to appreciate the role of following and leading is to try leading. After leading one will generally be a better follower as well.

On a practical level one "stress" of leading is the expectations game. Someone asks you to show them all the "attractions" at a particular site. After the dive they thought that too much swimming was involved and they now think that too much swimming is your "style". You may have covered more ground than you would have preferred as well but were trying to show them all the attractions as they requested.

If you cover less ground after the dive they complain that you didn't find a GPO/Wolfeel, show them the boat/I-beam or whatever.

These things come with leading a dive!

Experienced divers know all this, maybe some newer divers will learn something here, and everyone can add their thoughts on this subject. I haven't really seen the specifics of leading and following covered before (although I'm sure it has) thus the reason for this post.
Fishstiq
Amphibian
Posts: 827
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:58 am

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by Fishstiq »

I think a good light and understanding of light signals can also be a big stress redeucer. I know my buddy was often annoyed when he had an HID light and I was using a C8. Not a bad light, but it becomes invisible when you use it next to a 21 watt Salvo. Now that we both dive with HID's, it's easier to use passive light signals, like straying the focus of your light into your buddy's line of sight just so he knows you are still in close proximity without having to look for you. Once you get used to it, you can even start to tell how far away they are (within a couple of feet) and in what direction (shallower/deeper, closer/farther, left/right) based on how much their light is diffused. Of course, awareness and position are still very important, but a good light can sure help make things easier.
Not just front page famous, but above the fold famous...

Waiting for your AIDS test results is no time to be thinking positive.
User avatar
dwashbur
I've Got Gills
Posts: 2849
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:33 pm

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by dwashbur »

When we started diving as a group, my wife and daughter elected me the leader. And sometimes, albeit rarely, it even works out that way ](*,) The problem is, we all suffer from what we call SSS, "Something Shiny Syndrome." Something catches one of their eyes, and instead of motioning "let's go check it out," she just veers off to take a look. The worst is when I'm in the middle, the one on the left sees something and takes off that way while simultaneously, the one on the right sees something that direction and takes off the opposite way. Which way do I go? I decided early on that I would see what each one is going after, and head toward the most interesting one!

Seriously, it doesn't get to be a problem unless viz is such that I start to lose sight of one of them. Then I snag the one I'm with and drag her off to where I'm within a comfortable distance of the other one. So far, it works okay. But I can tell you this for sure: it has really heightened my awareness skills. When I was taking my DM, my teacher hammered away at the principle of "global awareness." Diving with my girls has honed that to an incredible degree, so in a way it's been sort of a good thing. We're all still learning, which is okay, too.
Dave

"Clearly, you weren't listening to what I'm about to say."
--
Check out my Internet show:
http://www.irvingszoo.com
User avatar
ArcticDiver
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1476
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by ArcticDiver »

THE biggest skill a leader has to have is to be able to check their followers frequently. Just because the leader is in front doesn't mean they get to set the pace. Actually, the slowest person in the sets the pace.

It has happened to me and I've seen it happen to many others that the most skilled, fastest swimming diver is the leader; a leader who promptly swims off and leaves the buddy, or the rest of the group. To me, unless it is a declared race the goal ought to be to figuratively stop and smell the roses.

Guess as an example; one of my best dives was with NWDiver and Uncle Pug. We don't share some philosophy and certainly they are much more proficient than me. But, we each dove to keep each other in sight and to see what there was to see. My experience is that such instant respect for each other is unusual in the dive world.
The only box you have to think outside of is the one you build around yourself.
User avatar
spatman
I've Got Gills
Posts: 10881
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:06 am

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by spatman »

Fishstiq wrote:I think a good light and understanding of light signals can also be a big stress redeucer. I know my buddy was often annoyed when he had an HID light and I was using a C8. Not a bad light, but it becomes invisible when you use it next to a 21 watt Salvo.
amen, brother. i just learned that one this weekend during AOW. time to save for that can light...
Image
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by CaptnJack »

spatman wrote:
Fishstiq wrote:I think a good light and understanding of light signals can also be a big stress redeucer. I know my buddy was often annoyed when he had an HID light and I was using a C8. Not a bad light, but it becomes invisible when you use it next to a 21 watt Salvo.
amen, brother. i just learned that one this weekend during AOW. time to save for that can light...
My biggest issue with C8 type lights is the pistol grip. There's a tendency to let it dangle sometimes and create all sorts of wild light signals. You can make up for a weak light by being closer and more predictable to your buddy BTW.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
User avatar
spatman
I've Got Gills
Posts: 10881
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:06 am

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by spatman »

CaptnJack wrote:My biggest issue with C8 type lights is the pistol grip. There's a tendency to let it dangle sometimes and create all sorts of wild light signals. You can make up for a weak light by being closer and more predictable to your buddy BTW.
i agree about the pistol grip for sure. but i found that i experience the same as joe describes. passive signaling just wasn't very effective because where the closer i got, the more my light would be obliterated by an HID, especially 21w and stronger.
Image
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by CaptnJack »

True but if you are "that" close you have lots of other communication tools in your toolbox (other than passive light signals). E.g. if you ever get to Catalina you'll find HIDs useless, the sun just blows out any hint of a spot. Passive light work doesn't cut it. Vs. say a night or cave dive where even a fairly small backup light is surprisingly effective. Can't put it right smack dab in the spot of your buddies HID tho (where he's theoretically looking). Just closeby. The C8 would probably work better if it focused to a true spot. You might consider a LED photon torpedo as a stepstone to the HID BTW http://www.cnsales.net/photontorpedopage.htm They are good, effective communicators then turn into a good backup. :)
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
gcbryan
Submariner
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:25 pm

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by gcbryan »

Also, just to be accurate, the pistol grip isn't really the problem...it's how it's used. If you don't let go of the pistol grip or turn it off if you do there are no wild light signals. Having the use of both hands would be a reason not to use a pistol grip.
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by CaptnJack »

PIstol grips tend to be used with lanyards although sometimes with boltsnaps, having a lanyard generally means you use it and allow the light to dangle. When I use a backup light I hold it in my hand. If I need both hands I clip the back end of it off to my chest (no lanyard) and it points down. No matter how you stow a pistol grip or if you use a lanyard the beam points "out" and "around". I suppose you can avoid blaming the gear if you never let go of it and never stow it. I would prefer to blame the light design more than the diver for the wild light signals in this case tho.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
gcbryan
Submariner
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:25 pm

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by gcbryan »

Good points but I use a Light Cannon with a lanyard but never let go of the light except for the rare occasion when I turn it off just before the dive is over. The lanyard for me is not so that I can let go while using it but just in case I have to let go of it.

Wild swinging lights irritate me as well but there is no need for this to happen and except for newer divers it doesn't happen on dives I go on. Cannister lights do make it easier to use both hands however.
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by CaptnJack »

Certainly in some cases gear can make a buddy who doesn't know better or even one who does but is otherwise distracted perform "better". And in some cases gear can require its own "workarounds" which can make an otherwise good buddy not so good. E.g. I had an Apollo drysuit years ago that never autovented. I had to push the button on the dump valve to make it vent. Definately not helping the partnership there.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
User avatar
TCWestby
Submariner
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:27 am

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by TCWestby »

I find it easier for the leader to be on one dide with multiple biders, 3+. This way the leader just needs to look one direction to see all divers instead of both ways.

I also find it best to swim shoulder to shoulder, if buddies are behind it is akward to turn around to look.

It's also best to practice and agree on hand and light signals prior to submerging.

Of course I'm always tweaking and looking for better and more efficient ways to do things.
Fishstiq
Amphibian
Posts: 827
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:58 am

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by Fishstiq »

I didn't mean to say that HID lights replace buddy skills, I'm just saying they can be a good stress redeucer, and take one item off your "taskloading checklist". I don't spend much time in Catalina, just here in the wonderfull PNW where anything below 20 fsw or so requires a light that can be seen. Also, I agree with the pistol grip assesment. Some divers do hold on to the pistol grip through the whole dive, but I think a majority let go of it at some point. When they do, it can really ramp up everyone elses adrenaline if they mistake it as an emergency or something. I think it is much easier to dove with a buddy who is "quiet" with their light, but that's just my .2 psi....

Also worth mentioning.... turning off your pistol grip light so it doesn't swing around may not be the greatest idea. Most light failures occur when the light is turned on or off, so to reduce the possibilit of losing your primary light during a dive just leave it on until you have surfaced. Personally, I'd rather deal with wildly swinging discoball strobelights than trying to relocate a buddy with no light at all......
Not just front page famous, but above the fold famous...

Waiting for your AIDS test results is no time to be thinking positive.
Tangfish
NWDC Mascot
NWDC Mascot
Posts: 7746
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:11 pm

Re: Leading/following buddy skills

Post by Tangfish »

Being a good leader on a dive means having superb spacial and situational awareness. I have to admit that with the extra task loading of a mCCR my ability to lead others on dives has taken a plunge (pun intended). Once all the moves become muscle memory I should have the awareness back, but it'll still be hard to help others with all the additional gear I carry now. Diving a rebreather has taught me how streamlined and simple OC gear is and I have a newfound appreciation for the things you can do when diving a simple rig. That being said, the CCR is really cool and the fish let you pet them. :fish:
Post Reply