why do dive shops do this?

[Grateful Diver]

Got a call from a student last night. Went something like this ...

(her): I took my tank in to the shop to get it ready for nitrox and they told me it would cost $150.

(me): WHAT! Why'd they say that?

(her): They said it would need a new valve, that the old valve wasn't nitrox compatible. And that it would need to be hydro'd and VIP'd.

(me): Get a new shop! That one's stealing from you.

I won't say which shop it was ... but hey, a brand new Thermo Pro valve runs about $70, and a standard K-valve ... which is all she needs ... runs about half that ... and that's giving the benefit of the doubt that it needs anything beyond cleaning and a few o-rings. A tank doesn't need hydro for nitrox preparation, and nitrox prepping a tank shouldn't run more than about $30.

This is an AL80 we're talking about ... you can buy a new one for what they're trying to charge her.

... and they wonder why people want to take their business to places like ScubaToys and LeisurePro ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Maverick]

Got a call from a student last night. Went something like this ...

(her): I took my tank in to the shop to get it ready for nitrox and they told me it would cost $150.

(me): WHAT! Why'd they say that?

(her): They said it would need a new valve, that the old valve wasn't nitrox compatible. And that it would need to be hydro'd and VIP'd.

(me): Get a new shop! That one's stealing from you.

I won't say which shop it was ... but hey, a brand new Thermo Pro valve runs about $70, and a standard K-valve ... which is all she needs ... runs about half that ... and that's giving the benefit of the doubt that it needs anything beyond cleaning and a few o-rings. A tank doesn't need hydro for nitrox preparation, and nitrox prepping a tank shouldn't run more than about $30.

This is an AL80 we're talking about ... you can buy a new one for what they're trying to charge her.

... and they wonder why people want to take their business to places like ScubaToys and LeisurePro ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Preach on Bratha!!! ](*,)

[dwashbur]

I'm inclined to think we need to know which shop it was. Maybe if enough divers put pressure on them, they'll stop this sort of shady dealing.

[BUZO71]

So, which shop is it? For you that live in the area and may know which shop, thats great ...but, I'd hate to get ripped off by the same place

[nwbobber]

I also would like to know who this is. I see no ethical or moral reason to refrain from exposing someone who would take advantage of someone like that.

[Grateful Diver]

Sorry fellas ... as a dive professional that would be a pretty unethical thing for me to do. I'm not interested in publicly flaying a business ... I AM interested in letting people know that if a dive operator tells you that you need to buy a "nitrox compatible valve" that you should run ... not walk ... from that store.

There's some great shops in this area ... and some pretty lousy ones. Pay attention to what people are saying about the ones they go to ... you'll figure out which are which.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[rcontrera]

9 times out of 10 statements like that are just plain ignorance on the part of the shop monkey. Dive shops can't afford to pay much so they generally get so-so employees. Don't get me wrong ... some of the minimum wage guys are GREAT!! But then there are those that just got a job at the shop to buy stuff at a discount.

Many shops don't insist on their sale staff actually sitting down with the books and learning about the stuff they sell. And when it comes to Nitrox ... even the industry "Professionals" can't really agree on what is right or wrong.

Of course, in this case, the sales guy was wrong ... that is unless they don't do service that is Nitrox compatible or know how to do the cleaning. In that case they have to buy new stuff that is and the guy is correct.

But ... that also tells you that their service guy doesn't know what he is doing either. Of course, that is another subject!

Just my $.02

[lundysd]

A local shop charged a buddy of mine nearly $30 for an o-ring save-a-dive kit.... with 8 o-rings (and no they weren't all viton)

[H20doctor]

I won't go to a dive shop... Because he is a all knowing...never wrong kinda jerk.. This guy has tried to rip me off plenty times and tried to get me to get rid of my catalina 90 ... But its not gonna happen.. I will shop online to put him under.

[Tangfish]

Yeah, I hear of newbies getting ripped off and feel bad about it. I was lucky enough to buy a lot of my gear early-on from a fantastic guy who was very helpful, and talked me out of more stuff than he talked me into.

[BASSMAN]

I also am very happy with the dive shop I go to. Allthough I did have a few situations where one of the employee's was going to charge me more than what was needed for some repairs and the dive shop manager was able to correct the uninformed employee. It was an honest mistake of the employee just not knowing. I did give away a decent Aluminum 80{Current Vis and Hydro} to the shop when they told me they would not fill it because of the mfg date and type. This was when I was very new to diving.
They did tell me other shops would fill it. But being new, I did not want an unsafe tank.
Knowing what I know now, I would have kept it for leak checks on my dry suit or maybe for short, overrweighted dives>

[jeff98208]

i was lucky, the guy that helped me out in getting my b.c. and tanks and yes even a drysuit was honest enough to let me now what i didn't need at that time since most of my dives where in the day time anyway, unlike now where they're mostly night dives. but that was before he moved to florida though....

[BUZO71]

its unfortunate you can't trust a business like this one in the Sound. If they will rip you off for one thing, they will rip you off for another.... no integrity.

[Sea of Green]

[Sea of Green]

[Pinkpadigal]

I am going to play a little devils advocate here. Based on the information provided, we don't know the whole story.

If the tank was new, there is no reason that it should have been more than about $25-30 to flip it. However, we don't know the condition of the tank. The tank might be really old (a pre 1989) and had an old J-valve on it. If it was out of hydro, then it would need a hydro. Even newer tanks could have corriosion or rust in them and then would need to get tumbled, not just washed. With a new valve ($40-70) an eddy, hydro, vip, tumble and VIP, ($60-100) that could be $100 or more. Getting a rush job could also cost more. The only person who could accuately tell the customer what it would cost would be a PSI certified tech, and he/she would not know for sure until they looked inside the tank.

As Ray suggested, it could also be someone knew that didn't know what is involve to flip a tank. The manager could have been out for a few minutes, and the repair tech could be out that day as well. The best suggestion if you feel that service work is expensive or unreasonable, talk to the store manager or repair tech to find out why. If it still sounds unreasonable, then shop around.

Most local dive centers are run by humans, not machines. Most are hard working people who do their best to make sure every customer gets the best service possible. Unfortunately, they cannot please everyone, and sometimes mistakes and misunderstandings happen.

[mattwave]

Most local dive centers are run by humans, not machines. Most are hard working people who do their best to make sure every customer gets the best service possible. Unfortunately, they cannot please everyone, and sometimes mistakes and misunderstandings happen.

Preach on Sista.

BTW if this was NWSD Bob, please let me know, because that sounds like a lot more than we charge.

[BillZ]

So what is the going rate to prep a tank for nitrox?

Cindy and I are currently diving air but were looking to switch over and dive nitox. The original plan was that we would our 6 tanks dropped off at the shop we frequent before we leave for Costa Rica. That was until we got the quote from the shop:

Nitrox cleaning for 6 tanks - $70ea - $420
Two Nitrox classes - $300

$720 would cut into our vacation fun so we decided to hold off for awhile and assess which tanks we really wanted to switch over and which ones can wait.

BTW. All of my tanks are steel, post 2002 production and are current on VIP and Hydro.

I dont want to start a biding war or slam the shop, I just want to know if this is typical or am I getting ripped off.

EDIT: I just read Amy's post and remembered that the shop mentioned that they tumble all the tanks as part of the Nitrox prep. It may justify the $70, but another question comes to mind:

Is the tumble always necessary or are they just tacking on extra labor? Two of my tanks are less than 6 months old and 2 of them were tumbled a moth ago before I bought them (used).

[dsteding]

For what it is worth, I just learned how to O2 clean tanks. For big steel tanks, it is actually a pain, think of multiple agitations and rinsings by hand. Pick up your 130 sometime and rock it back and forth multiple times. You'll start to see what a shop employee is having to do. I could easily see the tank part of things being worth $50 to me, especially if a tumble is involved.

As for a valve, the cleaning there takes a bit of time but isn't too complex.

So, paying $50-$60 for a tank cleaning actually seems reasonable to me. It is a bit labor intensive. Now, having to do it once a year does get expensive, but I generally get fills from one place and know the cleanliness of the gas I am putting in there, so I have no problem going a couple years between cleanings.

[Maverick]

so I have no problem going a couple years between cleanings.

If they let you, the cleaning sticker expires with the Visual inspection.

[vbcoachchris]

So what is the going rate to prep a tank for nitrox?

Cindy and I are currently diving air but were looking to switch over and dive nitox. The original plan was that we would our 6 tanks dropped off at the shop we frequent before we leave for Costa Rica. That was until we got the quote from the shop:

Nitrox cleaning for 6 tanks - $70ea - $420
Two Nitrox classes - $300

$720 would cut into our vacation fun so we decided to hold off for awhile and assess which tanks we really wanted to switch over and which ones can wait.

BTW. All of my tanks are steel, post 2002 production and are current on VIP and Hydro.

I dont want to start a biding war or slam the shop, I just want to know if this is typical or am I getting ripped off.

EDIT: I just read Amy's post and remembered that the shop mentioned that they tumble all the tanks as part of the Nitrox prep. It may justify the $70, but another question comes to mind:

Is the tumble always necessary or are they just tacking on extra labor? Two of my tanks are less than 6 months old and 2 of them were tumbled a moth ago before I bought them (used).

Basic Plan

Inspect tank for issues such as rust or aluminum oxide

Clean valve completely
- Detergent
- Acidic solution
- Neutralizing solution
- O2 compatible cleaner
- Rinse

Dry with O2 clean air

Replace all o rings with Viton or another O2 compatible Matirial

Lubricate with O 2 compatible lubricate such as Krytox or Cristo-Lube

Clean tank completely
- O2 compatible cleaner
- Rinse

Dry tank completely

Visual Inspect Tank

Process takes about an hour per tank to complete. I do not know what everyone charges for this, but even if the tank needs a tumble I rarely charge more than $40 for the complete service on a single (Hydro is $30 extra). If the tank and valve are in good shape it is usually less than $30/tank. Several local Instructors offer Nitrox classes for $100
$30 X 6 = $180
$100 X 2= $200

Total $380 still cuts in to your vacation fund, but not as bad as you thought

Scott

[Jeff Kruse]

Arggggg. Why are people O2 cleaning tanks for Nitrox???? The customer shouldnt have their tank exposed to 100% O2. ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

I guess its a good way for a dive shop to make a few extra $$$. Deco bottles need O2 cleaning but not 32 or 36% nitrox.

[vbcoachchris]

Several Shops partial pressure blend with 100% to make 32% or 36%. If the tanks are O2 serviced they can be filled anywhere. It just makes things easy for the tank owner. They do not need to ask any questions about how the nitrox is made

Scott

[Jeff Kruse]

My point is, shops shouldnt be burdening the customer with the cost of PP filling. It's just not right.

[Grateful Diver]

Most local dive centers are run by humans, not machines. Most are hard working people who do their best to make sure every customer gets the best service possible. Unfortunately, they cannot please everyone, and sometimes mistakes and misunderstandings happen.

Preach on Sista.

BTW if this was NWSD Bob, please let me know, because that sounds like a lot more than we charge.

Definitely not NWSD, Matt ... in fact, that's where I suggested she should take her tank. I KNOW you guys would take good care of her ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)