Full Face and Radio

[Norris]

After our first open water last Saturday my buddy and I were sitting on the rocks at cove 2 going over what we saw, did, and how great this all is. We began talking about full face masks with radios. We both agree that full voice communication would take a diving trip with a friend to a whole new level! Now looking around its obvious that this is an investment that is certainly down the road, but I would like to ask you all.

Has anyone used this?
What are your thoughts on it?
Pros and Cons?

Is this rent-able anywhere?

Thanks,
Rick

[Alex]

When I used them a while ago it was more of a gimmick. They worked like crap. Everything about them. From the sound quality to the range all you could hear was crackling voice over static background and could barely make out the topic of the conversation.

Also, diving with a FFM was different and has its own set of + and -

[Norris]

Thanks Alex thats good to hear. I assume it may be contingent on the price of equipment and such. I rode motorcycles most of my life (until marriage and home purchasing) and that was always the bummer. Having to wait until you all stopped somewhere and then you could discuss what you saw and all that, forgetting half of it.
Picking up chatter boxes and being able to speak was THE BEST, so scuba communication would be ideal. Would you mind elaborating on the + and - of full face?

[Joshua Smith]

Well, a leaky mask could be a huge downside- and if you, for some reason, need to switch regs(out of air being a prime example)- it gets a lot more complicated really fast. FFM is a huge investment, too- decent ones are ~1,000$, without coms.

[Tom Nic]

You will be surprise how much you actually CAN communicate underwater!

You'll get better at hand and light signs, at reading your buddy's body language, and there's always the old reliable dive slate.

Plus, you'll find making noise and even talking through your regulator can get more across than you thought! (I love GD's expression of "burbling" into the regulator.) And laughter, surprise, excitement and a ton more can be communicated that way as well.

I was amazed at how much my wife and I could understand each other at the surface talking into our snorkels!

Lots more cool stuff ahead for you as you continue to dive!

[CaptnJack]

I use a FFM mask at the aquarium. Honestly its a hassle. Even your hood needs to be custom cut to fit. And you need a backup mask and normal reg. Sound is ok but you end up hearing everything including your buddy's breathing. They are finicky on maintenance, they use custom hoses and route them funny (at least the AGA does). Their are ALOT of negatives to them and the $1100 cost is a biggie too. They are warmer, esp. with a dry hood that they can seal against well.

For recreational scuba I recommend upping your hand/light signaling capacity. Here's a good book on that.
https://nssbookstore.org/index.php?mode ... er=01-0029
Surprisingly versatile and not very expensive either.

[narcosis Junky]

I use a oceanreef full face mask. The space Neptune. I love it, and I find it awsome. better viz (wider). As far as people who don't like the full face mask, it's becasue: it doesn't fit them, THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE THEM, they didn't have the proper trainning. As far as the com system, you have to know the proper use of it and it works great. I paid 750 just for the full face mask and not $1000. The Space neptune is very close to your face so it isn't as boyant as people claime full face masks to be. as far as out of air, it's also part of the trainning when you get certified for the full face mask. I do know of a store that would let you try them out. as far as out of air, I use a pony bottle (redundent air) with a quick disconnect hose attatched to it. When I run duels, I have one coming out of each tank (yes, 3 quick disconnect). So if for some reason I ran out of air, I disconnect my primary and connect to my pony. If I had a dive buddy, I would make them carry a quick disconnect that is 7' long. It's no different than having a secondary reg. I carry a standard reg on me and a redundant reg. and I carry a regular mask in my cargo pocket of my dry suit. Just inc ase I have to take the full off and switch to my regular mask. and yes I have done all the above under water. Any help, we can hook up and you can try my mask if you want. The best part is with the 6 way strap it's hard for any body to kick the mask off your face. It's nice when I dive cold water two. Oh and yes the com system for that mask, is another 750. total $1500 for the full system. It's worth it. But it is an investment. Try one first before you spend the money.

[Tom Nic]

Nice to have varying opinions!

[airsix]

As a former user, I'm a no vote on the FFM too. I had to use one for the type of work I was doing at the time, but for recreational diving it's a no-go for me. I sold mine when I didn't need it for work any more. They have their advantages, but for recreational diving most of them don't apply. The downsides do, however. The only time I've missed mine since getting rid of it is when I've been diving in 32-40F water and that exposed strip of forehead feels like it's on fire.

-Ben

[Alex]

narcosis Junky thanks for a different take on it. Did you find the coms got better now that most of them are located off to the side instead of in the middle? Or is it just that technology got better in general?

[girldiver]

Interesting discussion. I've been on the topside end when demo'ing a set for a commercial outfit to buy in a pool...couldn't understand a thing. But when I recently dove the Mark 5...from 1944...the com unit on the inside was crystal clear. Of course, it's "wired"...but you would think we could out do the technology from 1944 by now...

[narcosis Junky]

The trick to the com, is you have to turn your head to the side to talk so the bubles don't affect the signal. It's a neet little trick, but it works. Like I said before, all it takes is a little trainning from someone who knows what they are doing. Every body learns new tricks every day I still do. My experience is thumbs up.

[Alex]

The problem is my dive buddy is usually my GF. I don't want to have to hear her ALL the time.

[CaptnJack]

The problem is my dive buddy is usually my GF. I don't want to have to hear her ALL the time.

Whoops I think the comm batteries just died

For me, my face does not fit an AGA. They only have 1 size skirt and I've tried adding small spacers etc. to improve the fit (with guidance from the Aquarium DSO) and they didn't help. Actually they were just more hassle. I have not used other brands.

[narcosis Junky]

My answer for Alex is take the com out when you go dive with your GF. Put it back in when you want to use it. At least the Space nepturne system allows you to do so. As far as for Captain Jack. If I remember corectly, the aquarium has different systems. And one of them is the Ocean reef Space nepturn. It comes in 3 sizes if my memory serves me right, maybe 2 sizes. I don't remember. But I know that their is more than one size.

[CaptnJack]

My answer for Alex is take the com out when you go dive with your GF. Put it back in when you want to use it. At least the Space nepturne system allows you to do so. As far as for Captain Jack. If I remember corectly, the aquarium has different systems. And one of them is the Ocean reef Space nepturn. It comes in 3 sizes if my memory serves me right, maybe 2 sizes. I don't remember. But I know that their is more than one size.

The Seattle Aquraium has one Neptune but its not in the volunteer equipment pool. The AGAs are the standard and their 1st stages are all setup for their backwards hose routing.

I'd actually like to pick up either a mouth pod or a FFM, even if it fits so so. But I would not use it for regular diving.

[narcosis Junky]

Sorry I thought you were reffering to the New Port Aquarium. They have the space nepturne system.

[CaptnJack]

Sorry I thought you were reffering to the New Port Aquarium. They have the space nepturne system.

Nope, I'm up here in sunny Seattle

Based on my experience with the AGAs I would look at other brands. I find the thru the diaphram exhaust often leaks (badly) I don't know if this is due to the hard use on the volunteer masks or its innate with the AGAs. The iffy fit is also annoying for me, and the requirement to use the nose block to clear. A pod using a standard reg, with a nose pocket to valsalva would be a huge huge improvement. The weird AGA hose routing and necessity of using a swivel is a minor downside recreationally but a big failure point for deco usage.

At ~$1800 for a FFM with comms, dealers should offer demos more. That's a huge $$ commitment for something which may not work as well as advertised.

[loanwolf]

This FFM is getting a lot of attention in the tech community and by the military. It will be out late this month or first part on next as I was told by OTS. We and the military are waiting patiently for the CCR version to come out.

http://www.oceantechnologysystems.com/otsffm.shtml

[narcosis Junky]

Just an opinion, I think that the OTS FFM has to much trapped air inside. Making the mask very boyant and it's going to make your neck sore after a while. And by reading what it says on the web sight, it looks like a copy of the ocean reef design as far as the double seal and head strap. It looks cool, but not low profile anough. I will say that the down fall of the space neptune from ocean reef, is it doesn't adapt to a CCR system. the OTS looks really bulky.

[CaptnJack]

OTS has distributed the AGA for a decade+. That is an AGA with a slightly modified exhaust. Hard to tell about the reg innards. A leaking face valve will have you majorly rebreathing gas and getting a huge CO2 buildup issue.

[Tom Nic]

This FFM is getting a lot of attention in the tech community and by the military.

Makes sense, at least to my limited knowledge. I'm assuming that ox tox is the primary reason?

[Alex]

This FFM is getting a lot of attention in the tech community and by the military.

Makes sense, at least to my limited knowledge. I'm assuming that ox tox is the primary reason?

Is that because the reg falls out of the unconscious diver's mouth?

[Tom Nic]

This FFM is getting a lot of attention in the tech community and by the military.

Makes sense, at least to my limited knowledge. I'm assuming that ox tox is the primary reason?

Is that because the reg falls out of the unconscious diver's mouth?

That's my assumption.

[whatevah]

There are lots of reasons for losing consciousness of course - a CNS hit from oxygen toxicity is just one. Other reasons for FFMs are communications and environmental hazards (thermal, biological, chemical). FFMs are an important tool for public safety and commercial divers (as well as the tech and military types already mentioned). For what it's worth, I can add that my own experience with Ocean Reef FFMs has also been quite satisfactory.