What we can learn

LCF · Post by **LCF** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:19 pm

I was there when Jake died today, and it was senseless and tragic. I just spent a half hour on the phone to someone who has seen a number of friends die diving, and he told me that one of the things we need to do is figure out what can be learned or what can be constructive about the experience we have just had.

One thing that was very vivid about this was how difficult it was to get Jake up the rocks at the south end of Cove 2. I know we all feel that the cruise out to the Honey Bear is a great beginner's dive, because it's shallow, and pretty easy to navigate. But what I learned today is that, if someone has problems, the area where the Honey Bear is is a VERY difficult part of the site to extricate someone from the water. Perhaps we ought to think twice about going down that far with anyone we're not completely confident about. A cruise down to 60 on the boundary line might be a safer dive, overall, than a shallower trip to the HB.

Just a thought, and an attempt to make something constructive out of today's loss.

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:09 pm

I'm up for learning too. I don't have much to contribute tonight, but I'd like to see a brainstorming of other "considerations" we might not have thought about before. We owe it to Jake to do this - he would want something positive to come from his passing if at all possible.

I'm also convinced he'd want a party too (we actually talked about this one evening), so we need to put something like that together in the coming days too.

For now, what can we learn? Perhaps better, what is hidden that we haven't thought of or considered at our local sites?

Aquanautchuck · Post by **Aquanautchuck** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:34 pm

Sounder wrote:I'm also convinced he'd want a party too (we actually talked about this one evening), so we need to put something like that together in the coming days too.

I was actually thinking about that tonight. One thing I thought might be nice is a dive at Cove 2 with everyone that could make it after his funeral. Or if not then at a later date. If at all possible I would like to try and make the funeral from Portland.

gcbryan · Post by **gcbryan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:36 pm

I think we'll learn and remember more from his attitude than anything else. I'd like to have a little more Jake in me after reading his posts.

Health problems are hard to learn from.

I think John Rawlings posted something just after one of Jake's posts a few days ago to the effect that newer divers should probably try to pair up with experienced divers as much as possible rather than each other. This was in response to Jake's report about the mishaps that occurred when he and two other newer divers got together.

(I'm in no way implying that there was any problem with his newer dive buddies either. It sounds like they were cautious and were gaining experience together.)

His reports were so graphic and funny that you could identify with the stage he was going through since we've all been through and experienced the same things.

To me remembering his attitude and trying to adopt more of it for myself and his reports highlighting what newer divers go through and trying to remember that more and to help them more is what I'll get out of what I knew about Jake.

Aquanautchuck · Post by **Aquanautchuck** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:38 pm

Sounder wrote:For now, what can we learn? Perhaps better, what is hidden that we haven't thought of or considered at our local sites?

That is a very good idea Doug. All of us know of little hazards at dive sites that you find out either by word of mouth or by hard experience. Maybe we could have a section for them on the dive site portion of the board. Just wondering.

gcbryan · Post by **gcbryan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:58 pm

Aquanautchuck wrote:
Sounder wrote:For now, what can we learn? Perhaps better, what is hidden that we haven't thought of or considered at our local sites?
That is a very good idea Doug. All of us know of little hazards at dive sites that you find out either by word of mouth or by hard experience. Maybe we could have a section for them on the dive site portion of the board. Just wondering.

That's a good idea or at least it immediately struck me as such.

BASSMAN · Post by **BASSMAN** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:13 am

Sounder wrote: I'm also convinced he'd want a party too (we actually talked about this one evening), so we need to put something like that together in the coming days too.

Thursday?

dwashbur · Post by **dwashbur** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:24 am

One immediate thing to learn is: ENJOY IT WHILE YOU CAN! Because you never know when the Reaper is going to show up.

Sounds like our friend did just that, and I'm for following his example.

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:29 am

I thought of one last night amidst tossing and turning...

The last step at Redondo is a doozy and the knee-high rocks around it are something that I've seen trip people up landing them underwater looking for a regulator. Always enter the water with your tank turned on, wing/BC inflated, and have a regulator you can positively reach without it getting lost behind you or dropped in the fall.

BASSMAN · Post by **BASSMAN** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:41 am

Sounder wrote:I thought of one last night amidst tossing and turning...

The last step at Redondo is a doozy and the knee-high rocks around it are something that I've seen trip people up landing them underwater looking for a regulator. Always enter the water with your tank turned on, wing/BC inflated, and have a regulator you can positively reach without it getting lost behind you or dropped in the fall.

Hmmmm? What if someone was to put something there to lessen that huge step?
Anyone got some Ideas? I was thinking maybe a few cement blocks, but that would probably be unstable in the sand there.

Anyone?

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:37 am

gcbryan wrote:I think we'll learn and remember more from his attitude than anything else. I'd like to have a little more Jake in me after reading his posts.

Amen ... me too.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Zen Diver · Post by **Zen Diver** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:27 pm

Redondo: I have some contacts with the city and I'll see if they can address this in any way. Even having a big rock right there would help.

Cove 2 (and Redondo): A simple thing that might help with extrication is having a backboard handy. I know where I can get some, we just have to think about storage issues such as location and balancing accesability with potential theft issues.

I also have a dream of having AEDs more available for the dive community. I'd love to see every shop have one, and every charter. I'm in contact with a local rep and in group force we can get a good price. I will (and have always) train anybody interested in learning about AEDs for only the cost of a $12.00 book (and if I can get them cheaper so will you).

Shops? Charters? Individuals? Thoughts?

-Valerie

pogiguy05 · Post by **pogiguy05** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:35 pm

Well I know I have learned some things from reading the post about what happened that day. I am going to have to take a look at and think about my gear. First thing I will add will be a pair of dive scissors and this is due to in any emergency if you have to cut away any gear I dont think a dive knife will be appropriate or safe.Taking my Rescue Diver course is another cause the better prepared you are the better it is for the person needing help.

Penopolypants · Post by **Penopolypants** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:45 pm

Grateful Diver wrote:
gcbryan wrote:I think we'll learn and remember more from his attitude than anything else. I'd like to have a little more Jake in me after reading his posts.
Amen ... me too.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

me three!

pogiguy05 wrote:Well I know I have learned some things from reading the post about what happened that day. I am going to have to take a look at and think about my gear. First thing I will add will be a pair of dive scissors and this is due to in any emergency if you have to cut away any gear I dont think a dive knife will be appropriate or safe.Taking my Rescue Diver course is another cause the better prepared you are the better it is for the person needing help.

During rescue class, my buddy and I had the opportunity to cut a harness off of a diver. He used a knife on one side (the "DIR steak knife", I believe) and I wanted to try out my shears on the other. The knife went through the harness a lot quicker than my shears, which surprised me. I suspect that shears would work better with clothing, but that's just a guess.

LCF · Post by **LCF** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:57 pm

Doug cut Jake's wetsuit off him with a pocket knife of some sort -- it worked very well.

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:13 pm

LCF wrote:Doug cut Jake's wetsuit off him with a pocket knife of some sort -- it worked very well.

I cut Jake out of his harness and wetsuit with his own knife - it was one of the "DIR steak knives" that DSS includes with their harnesses. It worked beautifully.

Nwbrewer · Post by **Nwbrewer** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:23 pm

Sounder wrote:
LCF wrote:Doug cut Jake's wetsuit off him with a pocket knife of some sort -- it worked very well.
I cut Jake out of his harness and wetsuit with his own knife - it was one of the "DIR steak knives" that DSS includes with their harnesses. It worked beautifully.

I have the same style. I have never had to cut someone's webbing, but I have used it to cut entanglements, and it worked rather well. Carrying shears is not a bad idea for steel leaders and such.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:38 am

I agree that we should start fixing hazards:
The last step at Redondo
Having an AED and backboard just inside the outer door of the fish & chips place at Seacrest (aka Alki)
would definately be worthy projects. Seattle Parks has AEDs at the Aquarium and the Zoo. Secure "break glass to access" cases with alarms for activation are available.

divergirl07 · Post by **divergirl07** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:20 am

As for Redondo , I dive there at least once or twice a week so I hate that step ! I just called my husband ( who works for a sand & gravel company ) and asked what the solution is (other than pouring a new step) He said he can get a BIG flat stepping rock for the bottom step , but we will need to clear the little rocks out of the way to place it and will need some STRONG dudes to move it into place. {I wont let him try - his brain is stronger than his back these days}

E_Mo · Post by **E_Mo** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:21 am

Sounder wrote: I'm also convinced he'd want a party too (we actually talked about this one evening), so we need to put something like that together in the coming days too.

I know its a little ways a way, but how about we dedicate the club dive at the end of the month to Jake?

Paulicarp · Post by **Paulicarp** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:43 am

gcbryan wrote:I think we'll learn and remember more from his attitude than anything else. I'd like to have a little more Jake in me after reading his posts.

His reports were so graphic and funny that you could identify with the stage he was going through since we've all been through and experienced the same things.

To me remembering his attitude and trying to adopt more of it for myself and his reports highlighting what newer divers go through and trying to remember that more and to help them more is what I'll get out of what I knew about Jake.

Jake's posts are helpful to me because of the ability he had to laugh at himself and be honnest about the "dumb" mistakes and what he learned from them. I'm still on the outside looking in (so to speak) and I haven't been there yet. Most of you look back fondly at having gone thru the same things before, but I benefit from Jake's humility. His willingness to be thought a fool benefits me by helping me know what to expect. (Lynne's blog too!)

I really appreicate it when experienced divers are willing to admit their mistakes and what they learned from it. Would it make sense to have a thread just for, "what I learned today"?

--P

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:48 am

Paulicarp wrote:I really appreicate it when experienced divers are willing to admit their mistakes and what they learned from it.

i think a lot of people would agree that unless you admit and learn from your mistakes, there is no way you will become a good diver. this applies to life in general, too.

Penopolypants · Post by **Penopolypants** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:18 pm

E_Mo wrote:
Sounder wrote: I'm also convinced he'd want a party too (we actually talked about this one evening), so we need to put something like that together in the coming days too.
I know its a little ways a way, but how about we dedicate the club dive at the end of the month to Jake?

A most excellent idea! Let's do it!

BASSMAN · Post by **BASSMAN** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:45 am

E_Mo wrote: I know its a little ways a way, but how about we dedicate the club dive at the end of the month to Jake?

$\:D/$

RSdancey · Post by **RSdancey** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:50 pm

A diver in trouble at Edmonds UWP is going to be a really sad story. You have to swim SO FAR to get to the diving areas that I'm usually a little tired when we get to the buoys and just want to rest for a few before descending. I can only imagine coming up with a distressed diver and looking at that swim to shore - especially trying to do CPR on the fly.

Is there rescue infrastructure at the ferry dock? Do they have a boat with an outboard motor? Is there a protocol to get help from them if needed?

It would be just heartbreaking to start towing a live diver, and beach a dead diver due to the LONG swim at this popular site for many inexperienced divers...

RyanD

Northwest Dive Club

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