6 Gill Shark @ Cove 2 - Video

Fish & Invertebrate sightings and descriptions, hosted by resident NWDC ID expert Janna Nichols (nwscubamom).
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ljjames
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Post by ljjames »

uhm.... ...no

You don't think they feel "cold" underwater? You don't get the impression when diving with them that in this circumstance we are NOT the top of the food chain??

When diving, I can 'sense' vibes from most critters... Octos, wolfies, etc... When I've encountered the sixgillers, there are no 'vibes' coming off them, they are devoid of whatever it is that I "feel"... I don't know they are _there_ until I swim right over one. I mean I now recognize the signs... skittish ratfish, no swimmy fish in the water column, but that is not the shark itself.

I am not "fearful" of them or made anxious by their presence, it's just an observation myself and at least one other diver has felt.
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Post by dsteding »

I should have added a smiley at the end, that was meant to be some obscure Seinfeld humor.

I agree, they are vibeless, and after seeing a white shark eat a seal when I was surfing north of Santa Cruz, I can definitely say we are not on the top of the food chain . . .

I don't care if a six gill doesn't eat marine mammals, let's face it, blondie could really ruin your day if she wanted to . . . I'm happy she doesn't.
ljjames wrote:uhm.... ...no

You don't think they feel "cold" underwater? You don't get the impression when diving with them that in this circumstance we are NOT the top of the food chain??

When diving, I can 'sense' vibes from most critters... Octos, wolfies, etc... When I've encountered the sixgillers, there are no 'vibes' coming off them, they are devoid of whatever it is that I "feel"... I don't know they are _there_ until I swim right over one. I mean I now recognize the signs... skittish ratfish, no swimmy fish in the water column, but that is not the shark itself.

I am not "fearful" of them or made anxious by their presence, it's just an observation myself and at least one other diver has felt.
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Post by ljjames »

I know, I was bustin' yer chops a bit... ;)

I don't really watch TV, but I was able to dig up the reference on Youtube ;)

If I recall correctly, sixgillers have been known to munch on dead seal bodies, and they are mammal's last time I checked. Sixgillers in my understanding are scavengers/opportunists. I do not doubt that one would 'accidentally' chomp some diver how grabbed a hold of its tail or fin and decided to go for a ride.
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Shake yo Vibe Maker....

Post by kjc »

ljjames wrote: When I've encountered the sixgillers, there are no 'vibes' coming off them, they are devoid of whatever it is that I "feel"...
I respectfully disagree.

I distinctly remember one 6 Gill encounter I had that was quite interactive.

The shark was neutrally buoyant in the water and motionless, about 10' off of the bottom at about 85' fsw at 3 Tree North this past summer. It may have been asleep, but I do not know that. Myself and my buddy were putzing along and came within about 20' of it, head on. The viz was quite good!

We recognized it first!

We swam off a bit to its side, still about 20' away. It remained motionless, but absolutely followed us with its head, and its gaze. I most definately observed facial expressions, and the front on head musculature of the razed eyebrows of awarenesus. Its eyes got larger, and rounder from its previous dull, slanted gaze. It absolutely was looking forward!

It then swam at us in a completly motionless burst. It swam directly under us well within arms reach, from our head to our fins. We both pirouetted to be able to keep looking at it, but it pirouetted also, in a very graceful way. It did sort of a fin pivot like a basketball player would do by planting one foot and spinning around and pushing off. The shark did it in such a way as to swim back under us in directly the same orientation it had previously had swum under us, only in the exact opposite orientation.

It moved, we moved, and it countered our move to repeat the exact opposite swim by in a very subtle, but graceful way.

My buddy and I were swimming side by side, and the shark split us right down the middle, under us both times. Since it was swimming under us from our head to our fins both times, we were able to observe it from its head to its fin as well. As it swam under us, for that brief moment where our heads and its head were in the exact vertical plane, I absolutely observed the darkness of its eye rotate up towards us, and follow us from front to back as it swam under us.

It was absolutely checking us out!

Throughout the entire encounter, lasting all of about 1/2 minute, the shark exhibited mental awareness, facial expressions, bodily posture and spacial orientation with respect ot its environment and the other creatures in it. It checked us out thoroughly twice. It knew how to count sufficient to make a decision regarding its future plans. It was bigger then us, and I believe it was aware of our size relative to its own. It was definately checking us out, and I believe it was trying to either intimidate us a bit by coming between us and showing us its size, or seeing if it fit in with the two of us, and our crowd.

On other encounters elsewhere, I have observed the dull nothingness as well, and I have previously thought that they were souless also.

I now believe that it is necessary to observe their subtlies more carefully, and understand what their bodies are saying.
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Post by Pinkpadigal »

I don't know a lot about 6-gills but I know they are some of the oldest creatures on earth. With that, I believe comes wisdom, in some way. While a Bull, Tiger or Great White will bite to observe what they encounter, 6 Gills observe and watch. This may sound a bit left-field, but I think they know exactly what we are, and are amused with us as we are with them. They understand that we are not their to hurt them, so they observe us, and learn about us through observation.

KJC...it sounds like you had an amazing experience. I have only seen one, at Owen Beach 2 years ago. I saw it for about 10 seconds and it was gone. It was about 4-5 feet, and the shock of seeing it at first was quite eye-opening (also, thinking of Lamont's quote). I hope some day to have an encounter like yours. Thanks for sharing!
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Post by Sounder »

Scavenger or not - It's a big fish, in a species of alpha-predators, instinctively curious, with lots of big sharp teeth, all powered by a tini-tiny little brain. I'll be keeping my hands to myself when given the good fortune of diving with one.

Don't want to end up like the guy who decided to kiss a "harmless shark." Laura (welcome to our little group too! :bounce: ) - there's another YouTube clip for you. Search for "kissing sharks" and I'm sure you'll find it.
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ljjames
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Post by ljjames »

when we say "no vibes" we are not talking about "no interaction". I've dove with one as a buddy for a good several minutes (my human buddies were on my left, my sharky buddy was on my right). It was laughing at me the whole time for not noticing it. I just assumed Larry or Bones had switched sides. Then when we stopped, it did the whole spin around, check us out, play chicken, etc... It had a sense of humor, and got an extra giggle when I grabbed my buddy and put him between it and me.

When I refer to vibes (okay, this is gonna sound really weird, I know) I'm referring to the electromagnetic force, or life force or whatever it is that we "sense" that makes us _look_ in a random direction (that we had no interest in swimming) only to see a camafloged octo or a wolfie or some other critter of interest that there is no way we could have "caught out of the corner of our eye" but somehow (7th or 8th sense?) knew was there... I have not been able to "feel" the sharks underwater. it is like their presence is masked or hidden by a cloak of invisibility.

I can tell when a ratfish or wolfie is swimming next to me... I can "feel" it. I could not tell that a 6' sixgiller shark was literally inches from my right side (and probably had been for some time) until i felt a"Fin wash" and assumed it was one of the boys.
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Post by Tom Nic »

ljjames wrote:I could not tell that a 6' sixgiller shark was literally inches from my right side (and probably had been for some time) until i felt a"Fin wash" and assumed it was one of the boys.
:pale:
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Post by GillyWeed »

I can only hope that if something similar happens to me and all I feel is a fin wash.. That I never find out the truth until I am back on land. I don't really want to know. I just might have a heart attack! My buddy Jared can be like "Did you see that Gynormous 6 gill on your left side?" as long as its after the dive I'll be happy.. I am with Tom Nic on this one :pale: :pale: :pale: :pale: :pale: :pale: :pale:
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Post by dsteding »

ljjames wrote:
When I refer to vibes (okay, this is gonna sound really weird, I know) I'm referring to the electromagnetic force, or life force or whatever it is that we "sense" that makes us _look_ in a random direction (that we had no interest in swimming) only to see a camafloged octo or a wolfie or some other critter of interest that there is no way we could have "caught out of the corner of our eye" but somehow (7th or 8th sense?) knew was there... I have not been able to "feel" the sharks underwater. it is like their presence is masked or hidden by a cloak of invisibility.
I think what this really reflects is how comfortable you are underwater. I ocassionally tap into what you are talking about--so I have some sort of vague understanding of where you are going--but I'm not there yet in terms of being comfortable underwater. This must be a sensory adjustment that goes on, kinda like blind people whose senses become heightened, if you know what I mean.
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Post by Sounder »

Laura? Doug? Exactly what mixes are you using? :smt119 j/k

I've started to notice that when I just kind of look around in a particular direction, I am seeing more and more. I don't know that I'd credit it to a "six (gill) sense" (get it?! HA! #-o ), but I have given it some thought. For me, it seems that I am a) more comfortable in the water than ever before (but still have a long way to go) and that having seen so many more critters, I recognize them easier.

Diving at Redondo last Friday was Tom Nic was a perfect example - some how I spotted the smallest octo I've ever seen. It's mantle was as big as the nail on my index finger, and the whole thing was less than 1.5" long. It wasn't moving and was very well hidden all while being in horrible vis to start with. When I started signaling Tom with my light, it took him a minute until he found it too.

I think it's a combination of me looking for life instead of my next buoyancy reference point, and that I have now seen some critters with enough frequency that I can actually SEE them while they're hiding.
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Post by ljjames »

Part of it I call global awareness... Some people are born with it, some are not.

The deal with global awareness and diving happens when you are no longer learning your underwater self... Once you are not distracted by how your buoyancy is coming along, what your trim is doing, how your harness feels, what your tanks are doing, "is this going to work, fail, flood?", "what's that water doing in my reg?" "is my mouthpeice slipping?", "Is my mask going to leak?", etc...etc... and are "comfortable" in your underwater skin forgetting that you are getting your breathing gas from tanks on your back and are wrapped in latex/trilam/neoprene/nylon/d-rings/lights/cameras, only then do you start becoming truly aware of your surroundings. "whoa! what's that swimming/crawling over there?!"

This is also when the fish become friendlier, sometime schooling with you, and the octopus follow you around.

a perfect example is when you can catch a glimpse of that naughty little octopus who sticks his tentacle out and waves it at you, but as soon as you look over, he ducks into his den.

sometimes when you tell a story about seeing 14 little octo's on one dive people don't believe you... But I have video PROOF!! ;) They are everywhere, we just can't always see them..
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Post by dsteding »

ljjames wrote: The deal with global awareness and diving happens when you are no longer learning your underwater self... Once you are not distracted by how your buoyancy is coming along, what your trim is doing, how your harness feels, what your tanks are doing, "is this going to work, fail, flood?", "what's that water doing in my reg?" "is my mouthpeice slipping?", "Is my mask going to leak?", etc...etc...
The majority of my 75 or so coldwater dives have had some form of this dialogue accompanying them. But . . . then there are some moments . .
ljjames wrote:This is also when the fish become friendlier, sometime schooling with you, and the octopus follow you around.
Sometimes I catch glimpses of this, and reaching that state is actually why I dive. A few dives (one to the Monolith at night comes to mind) have been absolutely and totally relaxing, and I've been able to just sit back and be a part of things. I look forward to the day when I have enough experience where I can slip underwater and be in that state consistently.

I think a lot of this has to do with really, really, slowing down. My best analogy is when I am moving really slow in a trout stream in Montana, sometimes I move maybe 10 feet in an hour and make three casts . . . I try and become a part of the river, and when you do, you can see things that are just plain missed when you are rushing through the experience.

How's that for breathing some wacky mixes? Anyone else want some?
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Too Sexy....

Post by kjc »

I feel the same way underwater as I do on the dance floor.

The Dance Floor!

...on the dance floor

I'm, too sexy for my mask....

...too sexy for my fins....

....too sexy for my neoprene...

too sexay....
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Post by Tom Nic »

:laughing3: Thanks KJC! I needed the laugh!

Diving Three Tree a few weeks ago we were nearing the end of a 60 minute dive. My camera battery was dead and I was very relaxed floating along in a slight current. One of Three Tree's Ratfish swam by as they often do. It was close, and I normally would have been snapping a shot or two. Instead I slowly held my hand out toward it. It turned from the direction it had been going and swam up to my hand and actually touched my outstretched finger with it's nose. It was the most doglike behavior I have ever seen in a fish. It totally surprised me, and totally delighted me. Perhaps that is "normal" ratfish behavior? Anyway...

Very cool...

Sounder was with me and witnessed this... say Doug, what WAS in that gas we were breathing?!?! What HAVE you been slipping in those tanks? [-X

I hesitate to anthropomorphise fish and invert behavior... It says more about us than it does about them. I think we tend to read our own behavior and impulses too much even into the higher mammals... but it is interesting. (Of course this is from someone who considers wolf eels "cute"! ...many of my landlubbing, non-diving friends look at me like I've lost my mind... and maybe I have, but it's fun!)
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Post by GillyWeed »

I am not a scientist but I do believe that animals have complex emotions and feelings more than what we give them credit for. Anyone who wants to argue with me should watch a special on elephants. Add to the fact that our water dwelling friends do not see humans very often and the ones they do see (us) are usually not there to harm them and you will get reactions like Tom Nic's ratfish. He was just curious about what this thing was.. Could rationalize that it wasn't something that would typically prey on him and wanted to find out what it was. Compare that to the crabs who are usually very aggessive to divers. They know that we come down there to catch them. Anyone who has seen the Dungeness crabs 'run' away from divers at break neck speed can argue that Dungeness crabs know they taste good to us.

I wouldn't go so far as to anthropomorphise (great word BTW Tom Nic) animals either. But I do believe they have emotions and behaviors that are complex and diverse. Animals are not human like. They typically only kill for food or protection. And consider the domesticated animals who are most like humans. Anyone who has ever had a cat or dog bring them a 'present' know what I am talking about. They don't want to kill the animal to eat it.. They want to show us how like us they are.. Pretty scary huh?

I think that was mostly it.. No worries John
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Post by Sounder »

That's a good point Gilly. Dungies run like hell while kelp crab just sit there and reach out to grab something. I must say, the dungies are right - they're awfully tasty and fun to catch.

I can confirm Tom's ratfish encounter. He reached out his hand toward it, and it came and rested its chin on his finger. Totally unafraid - it was neat. If Gilly's theory stands true, ratfish must not be very tasty. We were breathing a normal mix... I don't remember slipping anything funny into it that day. :bootyshake:
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Ratfish....

Post by kjc »

Ratfish are cartalagenous fish.

They are more like shark in phylogeny.

Many people, including myself have observed Ratfish bailing out in a hurry just prior to a 6 Gill encounter.

Their behavior might be more understandable from a cross comparison of their relatives behavior as well as opposed to observations of just them as a singular entity.

To test the theory that they are curious, and relatively uninhibited towards divers as are 6 Gills, but yet leary of their shark brethern, pound one when it gets close to you.

If it still comes back for more, its stupid.
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Post by GillyWeed »

My Point wasn't just for Ratfish or shark species although I guess that would bring this sort of of topic. Well really off topic but.. My point is that a lot of fish are curious about divers and we divers get way closer to these wild animals than we would most others. Squirrels don't count if you have peanuts in your hand. But I would never get as close to a deer or racoon or other wild animal as I do to our underwater buddies because they don't see us as much as a threat as the above ground beasts do. I could ramble on and on about it and I am very good at rambling but I'll leave it at that.
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Post by Sasquatch »

My diving style had usually always been one of constant movement to cover as much area as possible and return again safely. I think I developed that from years of backpacking and snowshoeing adventures. Some of the people I dive with, non-photographers, feel compelled to race around in low viz until we're separated and meet up again on the surface. Hard to really interact with the wildlife.

However, on my sixth solo dive I was in 40' about 3' off the bottom when I just ran out of tasks with 1000# in my tank. I'd tried out some new equipment (SMB and reel) and polished some skills but then just decided to breath down my tank a little in the good viz (30+). I hung there only moving my head and eyes when I noticed the patterns of fish in schools in the water column and in little herds on the bottom. Dozens of little mini-flounders. I can't begin to list them all as there were so many but they were all coming slowly toward me. Kinda freaked me out when they kept coming. There was a large school of shiners that enveloped me until 4 salmon cruised by. I felt like I was in a cleaning station.

It was a most enjoyable experience, anyway and I hope to do it again soon. By the way, there were at least 2 big dungies that came at me, circling and staying just out of reach (but not hiding or running).

I'm sure that part of their mental process may have included consideration that I might be a salvageable edible that was becoming slow enough to smörgåsbord but hey, that's a little too dark an image for this cool thread about 6 gills.

Sea ya!

.
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Post by Tom Nic »

Great story Sasquatch! ... and great stories all...

I think it underlines what I keep hearing said all the time...

SLOW DOWN.... BREATHE... LOOK...

I think we'll all be amazed at how much more we see.

(The same thing is true, BTW, of walking through a forest.)
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Post by dsteding »

Sasquatch wrote:There was a large school of shiners that enveloped me until 4 salmon cruised by. I felt like I was in a cleaning station.
A great point 'squatch. I'm jealous, I've yet to get a good look at salmon (octos, wolfies, six-gills, skates, but no salmon). Saw one flash through a bait ball once, but it was moving too quick to really get a good look.
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I Agree....

Post by kjc »

Tom Nic wrote:SLOW DOWN.... BREATHE... LOOK...
Personally, I putz when I dive, and move just enough for frictions sake.

Ratfish are relatively easy to pound, as are Dunginess, IMHO.

Octo's generally are out of my hammer's reach.

I use the heal of my dive light, "Ole' Thumper".

Neudi's are the absolute best, I call 'em Squishies.

Wolf eels aren't really the challenge for me as they use to be, they all seemed to have scarred over pretty much the same way. Everyone can see pretty much what I've done to all of them. I used to dive more then I do now, but the effects of my pounding on them over the years have influenced their offspring, so I feel good I've had some genetic effects on the species.

But man, I'll tell ya, bait balls and salmon, even those pesky shinner perch, their hard as hell to put a whupp'n on.
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Post by Sergeant Pepper »

I finally saw this in it's entirety, and wow, that's amazing. I may have to take care of this wetsuit problem I have.
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Post by Sounder »

kjc - what exactly are you talking about? I hope you're really not squishing the nudibranchs, or hitting wolfeels and our other underwater friends. I understand spearfishing and crabbing taking only what you're going to eat, but I really hope you don't just assault marine wildlife because it's there and you can.
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