Building a "dream" tank...

[eliseaboo]

Ok...the time is almost upon us here at the marine center to start filling our tanks with animals. The big tanks are more or less pretty standard, but I've got a few smaller tanks (think 15-30 gallons) that need some small local life. Any thoughts on what might be interesting to put in them? If it were a warm water tank, the rectangular one would be just about perfect for an anemone/clownfish, so I've been trying to think of similarly paired cold water animals we could exhibit. My most recent musing is shrimp, since I find them really cool myself, but I don't think I could put more than a few in a tank. Another thing I'd been pondering is a "marine debris" tank, with various bottles/cans that have been used by marine life as homes (think gunnels, shrimp, crabs, etc).

So what would you all, as divers and critter watchers, enjoy seeing in a tank? (and I certainly realize you'd rather see it not in a tank, don't get me wrong!) Can you think of any interesting interactions or small creatures that would be good to feature?

[Norris]

Grunt Skulpins
Spiny Lumpsuckers
Make sure there are a couple gunnels in that junk tank, nothing cuter than when two of them are popping their heads out of a bottle.
6 gill shark

[coulterboy]

All of the above that Rick mentioned, plus some tubesnouts, a stubby and some eel grass would help.

[eliseaboo]

Grunt Skulpins
Spiny Lumpsuckers
Make sure there are a couple gunnels in that junk tank, nothing cuter than when two of them are popping their heads out of a bottle.
6 gill shark

I would sure love some lumpies! :luv: We had a few one year that laid eggs, but the eggs got removed accidentally...

We have six resident grunt sculpins in the tank next to the one I'm working on. They've been hatching babies like crazy this year!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKykgxmML1U[/youtube]

Gunnels definitely if we go with debris! I have a special love for gunnels in bottles...it's kind of odd.

All of the above that Rick mentioned, plus some tubesnouts, a stubby and some eel grass would help.

We have a whole eel grass tank! :luv: :luv: Our larger tanks are a piling tank (modelled on what's under the pier), a rock pile habitat, a driftwood-type habitat, and eelgrass. Tubesnouts are awesome when we get them. They're fast little suckers...a stubby would be great!! I hadn't even considered that. But I'm not sure if it would like to be out during the day...we're hoping for a smaller GPO too for one of our bigger tanks.

This planning is so much fun -- thanks for the thoughts guys!! Keep 'em coming!

[oldsalt]

If you put together a tank emphasizing "fin function", you could show the variety of uses of fins with the PSL, grunt, sailfin, bay pipefish, and a couple of flatfish thrown in. Just identifying the different fins - dorsal, anal, pectoral, caudal, etc. - can be informative. Figuring out the different uses for each fin could open some minds. Among larger fish, the ratfish is interesting for using its pectoral fin rather than its caudal fin to swim.
-Curt
p.s. Have Dusty help you put together a slug display.

[nwscubamom]

Talk to Greg first or maybe Rus at the MaST so you'll know which species CAN be put in the same tank without a lot of munching going on.

- Janna

[Dusty2]

Slugs we can get. Big and small. Also longfin gunnels would work because they are small and colorful as are mosshead warbonnets. little red octos are also cute. Shiner perch are cool if you can catch the little buggers. I know where there are some sparkling shrimp if we could get them out of their lair.

[eliseaboo]

Talk to Greg first or maybe Rus at the MaST so you'll know which species CAN be put in the same tank without a lot of munching going on.

- Janna

Definitely. It's an unfortunate fact though that inter-species interactions are, at best, a theory when working with a tank that small...

I do like the fin idea. It would make a good theme between a few tanks. In fact, that would make a really good volunteer class.....

I love the mind power on NWDC!!!

[LCF]

I know that what I really like at the Seattle Aquarium, and at the small aquarium at Redondo, is being able to get a really good look at things that are either very small or very skittish, or tend to hide.

I'd be excited about a tank full of slugs. But that's me.

[AquaticEngineer]

If you are thinking about doing a shrimp tank, candy stripe shrimp and their associated anemones would make for a very cool small display.

[fnerg]

How hard would it be to keep a sliverspotted sculpin?

[eliseaboo]

If you are thinking about doing a shrimp tank, candy stripe shrimp and their associated anemones would make for a very cool small display.

Hey now, that WOULD be cool! Except I've never seen them...doesn't mean I couldn't find them though!

How hard would it be to keep a sliverspotted sculpin?

I was just looking at them in Andy Lamb's book and wondering the same thing. But again, I've never seen one...just learned about them in Janna's class this week though! I'm thinking that anything bigger than a few inches would be too large for these tanks...

[AquaticEngineer]

If you are thinking about doing a shrimp tank, candy stripe shrimp and their associated anemones would make for a very cool small display.

Hey now, that WOULD be cool! Except I've never seen them...doesn't mean I couldn't find them though!

I have seen several photos from divers here on the forums that have found them, I'm sure they will chime in on locations to find them. Otherwise, just look for Crimson Anemones (Cribrinopsis fernaldi) and you should find them.

[Dusty2]

If your looking for candy strip shrimp the San Juan's is the place to go. There used to be one of those anemones at Hudson with candies on it but I haven't found it lately. Its down around 80' and the air just goes to fast at that depth so I don't go down there to often.

[Blow-N-Bubbles]

If the local cold water shrimp are anything like the tropical shrimp....then can be pretty tricky to maintain.

myself ......Tube worms, clams ...inverts would make a nice educational attraction.

[renoun]

The critters I enjoy seeing the most when I dive are some of the ones that you really have to slow down and look to see. Folks have mentioned several great options. If you are going to dream, dream big. What about trying to get somebody to pick up some adult Puget Sound King Crab, a basket star (not that some brittle stars wouldn't be cool too), scallops, or some sponges. Perhaps the tec diving community would accept the challenge of locating deeper dwelling species if you think you can keep them alive.

[eliseaboo]

If the local cold water shrimp are anything like the tropical shrimp....then can be pretty tricky to maintain.

myself ......Tube worms, clams ...inverts would make a nice educational attraction.

I've not had a problem with any kind of shrimp. I must be the shrimp whisperer or something because people keep telling me how difficult they are to keep, but I honestly can't kill them. Even the little shrimp I pull off kelp, or out of plankton tows, the ones I throw in the tanks hoping the anemones will eat them...they still just keep truckin! Plus, I think they're so cool to watch when they eat! Yes, I'm weird.

We've got four touch tanks full of hermit crabs, bivalves, tube worms, sand dollars, sea stars...you name it! They are truly some awesome touch tanks, in my somewhat biased opinion I wonder if there would be a way to make a thin plexiglass insert to exhibit something like burrowing wood worms/clams...

The critters I enjoy seeing the most when I dive are some of the ones that you really have to slow down and look to see. Folks have mentioned several great options. If you are going to dream, dream big. What about trying to get somebody to pick up some adult Puget Sound King Crab, a basket star (not that some brittle stars wouldn't be cool too), scallops, or some sponges. Perhaps the tec diving community would accept the challenge of locating deeper dwelling species if you think you can keep them alive.

We got a PS king crab about a year or so ago from a diver. We have a separate permit for him/her so it's a permanent resident. It's actually in the bigger of the small tanks right now, but that tank just doesn't seem to be working out - it always wants to hide and eat the other things it lives with. Which makes sense - most crabs do want to eat whatever they can catch. I've heard that suggestion a few times though, so we're going to have to think of a good way to exhibit him for spring. Maybe a small tank with lots of levels, since they seem to like to hang out on ledges (I read somewhere (ADM?) to think of places your cat would like to hide, and that's where you'll find them) A basket star crossed my mind as well, but usually any deep water species does not do well in our tanks, since we have a lot of natural light in the summer, which those animals are not at all adapted to (on occasion we have gotten a squat lobster in our crab cages, and they always have eye problems). Certainly I don't want to collect anything with a swim bladder from depth, or anything that might suffer pressure-related illness. Sponges! I love sponges. But they're hard to clean around, and when I have to delegate cleaning to a dozen other people...

I'd be excited about a tank full of slugs. But that's me.

Man, you guys know I love slugs too! We WILL have "sea lemons" (whatever yellow guys we find intertidally, then fight over what they're called) and hooded nudis, and usually some others float into our tanks and stay a few days - but their food is so specific that it's hard to get them to stay. They are very good at finding the outflow to the ocean somehow.

All right, I've got a full page of notes to attack my supervisor with this week... Anytime any of you can make it out this way to Port Townsend, let me know -- I'll show you around the new tanks :-D

[Greg Jensen]

A lot of good suggestions here. The number of possible negative interactions among tankmates seems almost unlimited, as it's based not just on species but also on relative size, but I have found that there are some general rules:

For small fish that are not gregarious, only one of that species to a tank. One silverspotted or sailfin sculpin in a tank with a grunt, lumpsucker, warbonnet, and sailfin make an amazing tank; put a second silverspotted or sailfin in and one will be constantly attacking the other. Gregarious species like crescent gunnels or shiner perch are not a problem and happier with company, but most of those that live solitary lives get territorial. They don't seem to mind 'different' fish, just others of their own species.

In my experience, there are a few locals that are just too territorial in a small tank, regardless of the other species. Painted greenlings, blackeye gobies, and longfin sculpins just don't play well with others.

Other than Metridium, most larger anemones shouldn't be housed with small fish. Although fish generally know better than to bump into an anemone, at some point they're apt to freak out when someone turns on the light, bangs on the tank or whatever and they blunder into the anemone. A friend lost a lumpsucker when it got into a tug-of-war over a piece of food with another fish and got swung into an anemone- he immediately rescued it but it died from the stings.

Shrimp are only safe with fish if the shrimp are way too big to swallow. Shrimp and anemones get along fine, even shrimp that don't normally associate with anemones. With their super skinny legs, they don't seem to offer enough surface area for the stinging cells to be very effective; they'll momentarily "stick" to the tentacles but easily pull away. Shrimp are very easy to keep.

Nudibranchs, unfortunately, are very difficult to keep because most have very specialized diets. Hermissenda is the easiest as it will eat all sorts of things, and Dirona is also not too picky. Aolidea are easy if you have a supply of small Metridium or Anthopleura, though they aren't all that pretty. But keeping a supply of the right hydroid/bryozoan/sponge for the others can be a full-time job. And even the best defended nudie should never be added to an existing fish tank. Fish quickly learn that something being dropped in the tank means dinnertime, and by the time everyone takes at least one bite, the nudie is in pretty bad shape. If you do add a nudie to an existing fish tank, make sure everyone is stuffed to the gills before it is added.

Echinoderms (brittlestars, seastars, urchins etc.) should never be housed with lithodid crabs, unless put in there as food.

Tubeworms and other filter feeders are fine if you're on an open system, but very difficult to keep in the long term if it's a fully closed system or the water is pre-filtered.

Most flatfish aren't well suited to tanks, but for a small tank, juvenile CO sole can't be beat. They don't freak out or bother anyone, spend most of the time on the surface, are all white so very visible, and very tame.

Stubby squid are easy to keep if caught without any damage- so no trawl caught ones. Unfortunately, they are poor display animals because they stay buried in the sediment in the daytime.
There's a lot more, but I've gone on long enough- just pm me if you have specific questions.

[eliseaboo]

Wow!! Thanks Greg! I might take you up on your last offer once it comes time to start putting things together.

[AquaticEngineer]

I don't know if this is of interest, but I have a juvenile GPO in one of my tanks that is roughly 7 months old based on size. I'm sure you can find one closer to you than I am, but if it doesn't sell in the next year I'll probably just donate it as a tax write off.