YOY YOY Ma?

Fish & Invertebrate sightings and descriptions, hosted by resident NWDC ID expert Janna Nichols (nwscubamom).
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nwscubamom
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YOY YOY Ma?

Post by nwscubamom » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:48 am

Biodiversity Guy suggested I post a few pics of YOY Rockfish we saw on our dives last week at Hood Canal. And then let you try to ID them. So...here you go - give it a whirl! Who do you think these little dudes will be once they grow up?

Contestant #1
Image

Contestant #2
Image

Contestant #3
Image

Step right up, place your bets!

- Janna :fish:
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Huskychemist
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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by Huskychemist » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:28 am

My "sans critter book" guesses:

1. Quillback (second guess would be copper...and is that a staghorn sculpin buried in the sand in the background?)

2. Copper

3. Um...I'm pretty certain this one will be a rockfish when it grows up.


I'll wait patiently for others to respond with better answers before you give the results...
Happy Diving!

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http://scuba.huskychemist.org

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dwashbur
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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by dwashbur » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:47 am

The stripes on #1 do suggest quillback, but the visible lateral line argues for copper.

#2: I'm gonna go with brown

#3: blue
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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by Scott G » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:39 am

I'm going to copy Lowell's guesses, as i agree with

1 Quillback
2 Copper (S. vexilarus)

Also interested in what a brown juv looks like, seems like the second one does look similar, but never seen a juv... Cooper guess based on 2/3rd lateral line marking.

3 Will hazard a yellowtail/ widow guess... shape looks right, don't know anything about the markings.
The guess of Blue is interesting, the color and patterns do look similar, but doesn't have to body shape :dontknow:

Janna, do you have a good key for this (juv. rockfishes)? I don't have it in front of me, but the only thing i have is black and white drawings from some old text.

attached photo of blue... note body shape diff. (Yes?)... I don't know i'm not a fish guy.
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Tom Nic
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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by Tom Nic » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:53 am

I'll go with 1) Quillback, 2) Copper (although I wanted to say Brown at first), 3) Puget Sound.

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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by Biodiversity_Guy » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:13 pm

Thanks Janna for starting this thread. It does seem like there is not much info out yet in the published texts on juvenile rockfish.

1) quillback?--uncommon species at Sund Rock as adults
2) brown (I can see copper, but brown rockfish are also very common here)(I think I am looking at the spot on the gill cover)
3) Puget sound?--but I rarely see adult PS rockfish at Sund Rock.

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whatevah
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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by whatevah » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:20 pm

My guesses are:

1) Quillback
2) Copper
3) Copper or Brown - hard to tell at this stage of the game

This is a great quiz topic!
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Dusty2
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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by Dusty2 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:36 pm

Not trying to hijack your thread but since it's ID the YOY time this one is bugging me. Seems like I remember something in the class about that black spot being an identifier??
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whatevah
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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by whatevah » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:24 am

Dusty2 wrote:Not trying to hijack your thread but since it's ID the YOY time this one is bugging me. Seems like I remember something in the class about that black spot being an identifier??


I think that's a Yellowtail.
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nwscubamom
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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by nwscubamom » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:51 am

I'd agree - Yellowtail YOY's have a really nice well defined dorsal fin spot, as well as the start of yellow coloration on their fins, which your photo shows nicely.

As far as which rockfish have been sighted through the years at Sund Rock - according to REEF stats, here they are in order of likelihood:

Copper
Black
Brown
Vermilion
Quillback
Yellowtail
Canary
PugetSound

Scott, I have a key for California YOY Rockfish that Tom Laidig put together. But nothing for up here. Also, yes, your shot is of a Blue - you can see the differently shaped anal and soft dorsal fin as well as the red speckling that's indicative of a Blue.

FYI, both Tom and Milton Love are working on a book that is specifically about YOY rockfish - YAY! There might be hope yet.

As for the answers to our little quiz here - well, I'm not positive myself!

Contestant #1 seems pretty likely to be a Quillback Rockfish because of the dark coloring developing on the back half of the fish and the lighter blotches.

Contestant #2 looks like a Copper to me. Note that Coppers, even adults, can have a faint dark spot on the gill covering (similar to browns). What I'm looking at more is the yellow streaks appearing already by the eye, as well as the start of the lighter, wider, lateral line marking that appears about halfway back. (A brown would not have that).

As for #3 - I don't think it's a Puget Sound because those are always very uniformly and evenly brown from my experience. It doesn't look like a Vermilion (juvs are really dark), or a Yellowtail (no dorsal spot), or a Quillback or a Canary, or a Black (no dorsal spot). I also don't think it's a Widow - mouth is too large and shape is wrong. And Blues, as Scott said, have a different body shape and fin configuration, although the speckles are similar.

So, to be honest, I'm not sure!

Maybe a Copper? Maybe a Brown? Maybe something else entirely?

Keep posting your YOY photos here so we can try to see some patterns or things that stand out.

- Janna :)

PS: Tom, I don't *think* you got #3 correct, so my grand prize will have to wait. Maybe Greg can weigh in here and help us out.
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Greg Jensen
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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by Greg Jensen » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:26 am

Eh, I have a hard time with rockfish- gimme a good old sculpin instead.
The other one with a black spot on the rear of the dorsal is a canary, but I agree with Janna that this one's a yellowtail as all the other markings are consistent.
For the original pics- 1-quillback 2- copper 3- ???? Actually if I had to guess I'd say it's also a copper. In large browns the opercular spot can disappear, but it should be really obvious in a small one.

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Dusty2
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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by Dusty2 » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:30 am

Just for fun I think there are 2 YOY in picture #1 and I think YOY #2 in picture #1 is a C-O sole

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Greg Jensen
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Re: YOY YOY Ma?

Post by Greg Jensen » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am

Head is too wide and body too long and narrow for a C-O sole. My guess would be a baby slender sole.

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