photo 101 help

[spudgunman]

So I am ok at photos on land Have a canon DSLR and do good with it, but cant afford the U/W housing and dont have the courage to take it U/W (or leave around the dive site sitting)

so I picked up a point and shoot to see my luck at photos, had my first dive today and things turned out ok be it except for the crappy auto focus on the camera.

Two questions

1) autofocus on crappy p/s cameras - I have a "guess" this is due to the lack of available light for the camera to focus on, as I noticed that commonly the background was in focus but not my subject if I pick up a crappy little light for a AF/Assist beam am I on track there?

2) bob took a photo today http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php ... 60#p177993 is the effect under water the same above water where if I get a good flash I will have a exposed subject and underexposed background? (normally on land I just up my ISO and use a prime lens to get this with a single 430ex for example, not 2-3 strobes like bob has)

[cardiver]

So I am ok at photos on land Have a canon DSLR and do good with it, but cant afford the U/W housing and dont have the courage to take it U/W (or leave around the dive site sitting)

so I picked up a point and shoot to see my luck at photos, had my first dive today and things turned out ok be it except for the crappy auto focus on the camera.

Two questions

1) autofocus on crappy p/s cameras - I have a "guess" this is due to the lack of available light for the camera to focus on, as I noticed that commonly the background was in focus but not my subject if I pick up a crappy little light for a AF/Assist beam am I on track there?

2) bob took a photo today http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php ... 60#p177993 is the effect under water the same above water where if I get a good flash I will have a exposed subject and underexposed background? (normally on land I just up my ISO and use a prime lens to get this with a single 430ex for example, not 2-3 strobes like bob has)

A focus light will do wonders for your auto focus. If you want the black background you need to shoot at higher shutter speeds. Your aperature and strobe will take care of the foreground lighting and your shutter speed will take care of the rest.

[spudgunman]

If you want the black background you need to shoot at higher shutter speeds. Your aperture and strobe will take care of the foreground lighting and your shutter speed will take care of the rest.

thanks for the info on the focus light I will be on the hunt for cheap u/w light now

yea in the P/S I dont think I have any settings other then "click"

I haven't owned a P/S camera for a long time, can you use a off camera flash and get the effect with automatic? before my DSLR I had a SLR 35mm so I actually don't know I always shoot in manual modes until my new DSLR I never had 'A'

[cardiver]

If you want the black background you need to shoot at higher shutter speeds. Your aperture and strobe will take care of the foreground lighting and your shutter speed will take care of the rest.

thanks for the info on the focus light I will be on the hunt for cheap u/w light now

yea in the P/S I dont think I have any settings other then "click"

I haven't owned a P/S camera for a long time, can you use a off camera flash and get the effect with automatic? before my DSLR I had a SLR 35mm so I actually don't know I always shoot in manual modes until my new DSLR I never had 'A'

It would be pretty tough. You really need a camera with manual settings or you need to shoot in to a dark background to begin with.

[spudgunman]

thanks... I will just go with a AF-assist for now and a cheap off camera flash till I get better

[H20doctor]

i Get great results from my point and shoot... it just takes pratice , AND PATIENCE ...

[whatevah]

Two questions

1) autofocus on crappy p/s cameras - I have a "guess" this is due to the lack of available light for the camera to focus on, as I noticed that commonly the background was in focus but not my subject if I pick up a crappy little light for a AF/Assist beam am I on track there?

The first thing to double-check is that the camera can focus as close as you're wanting it to. If your background is in focus and the subject is not it might be that the subject is too close to focus on. Try moving back a little and if you can get a lock that way you are hitting the focal length limitation. Having said that, the AF on point and shoots can be troublesome. My first underwater camera would hunt back and forth, back and forth trying to in vain to get a lock - very frustrating. I made a small bracket from aluminum stock and attached a small (low power, wide beam) LED dive light to it for a focus assist. The beam was still too narrow and bright and I got hot spots in my photos - so I made a diffuser for it from a piece of a plastic milk bottle (held on by a rubber band). In the end I found just the right combination of work-arounds to get some good results from that camera. H2Odoctor is right - it really takes practice and lots of incremental tweaks to get the best from your camera. Persevere - I bet you'll really come to like the photos you take.

One thing that I have found with almost every point and shoot I've tried underwater is that the autofocus works way better at the wide angle end of the zoom - most of their lenses pull in more light that way and that helps the autofocus. If you can, try to always leave the camera zoomed out to wide-angle - get closer to your subject to fill the frame.

2) bob took a photo today http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php ... 60#p177993 is the effect under water the same above water where if I get a good flash I will have a exposed subject and underexposed background? (normally on land I just up my ISO and use a prime lens to get this with a single 430ex for example, not 2-3 strobes like bob has)

I don't know how much manual control you have with your camera, but generally what I do to achieve that effect is to shorten the exposure time - the strobe(s) fill the foreground. I probably wouldn't run right out and get an external strobe right away - they do help a great deal, but they're also another complication that you have to learn to tweak. I would work with the basic camera for a while first - try every setting you can and get a good grip on what's possible as it is.

Welcome to the (often frustrating but very addictive) world of underwater photography - have fun!

[dphershman]

One way to get a cheap PS camera to use a faster shutter speed is to set the camera into a "sports" or "action" mode, usually done by going to the preprogramed 'scenes' menu (also called SCN by some makes). Most of the time that mode, even though its automatic and not manual, biases the exposure towards a somewhat faster shutter speed. You might see this on your camera as a little icon of a running figure. The opposite effect, a longer shutter speed, can be achieved with the 'night portrait' setting, the icon with the face with the moon or a star behind it. Might be worth experimenting with to get the background the way you want it.

[spudgunman]

thanks guys! I just checked the camera and it only has a click no sports mode :( thats ok I will get the pictures looking nice first then think about fancy pants later

I have gone to work looking for a cheapo LED and mounting system

[kdupreez]

that's some great advice and info from whateva! if you can manage to get a focus light mounted and diffused, it will make a world of difference!

I had very similar experiences with. Sealife that was great to focus at short zoom and absolute crap at deep zooms and zero focus at low light/night.. focus light made it l work! also if you have a macro setting, use that and start with the small/close stuff first.

I used a small flashlight called i-torch that has a very wide evenly distributed beam and at over 200 lumens it's plenty bright for focusing. it was like $50 and has 3 power settings. I'll go find a link for you.

[derek b]

What camera do you have?

To achieve a black background while using a strobe you need to adjust the aperture so that it will not allow in much light. If you where using a dslr then the camera would meter very low in the exposure bracket. However since you're using a point and shoot that has very limited controls you could try to use the AV exposer setting. Most cameras newer than a couple years old have this.

[spudgunman]

old sea and sea

[kdupreez]

This is the iTorch I was talking about..

Standard 180 lumens
http://www.itorch.ca/i-torch.html

Or the one I have 210 Lumens
http://www.itorch.ca/i-torch-plus.html

[Grateful Diver]

Kelly, the effect you're asking about requires nothing but water behind the subject ... if there's nothing back there to reflect the light, you'll get a black background. Focus lights help ... don't waste your money on a cheap one, been there done that and it's wasted money. I like the Big Blue 1x5 ... it's about $140, and very effective.

You can take pictures very effectively with a simple P&S camera ... I did it for years with no strobe and no focus light. But you're limited to macro. The "secret" is getting in as close as possible, shooting "up", and being vewy, vewy "quiet" (in other words, really good buoyancy control and no fin movement to stir up silt clouds).

Here's some pics I took with my little Casio showing the effect you're asking about ... it had two modes, OFF and AUTO.













... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[spudgunman]

nice. Thanks Bob! and thanks kdupreez for the link I am going to try and work this out before my next dive. That club dive 98% of my photos were blurry, due to light and I never turned on the macro button which on my dry land test actually seems to help.

[Grateful Diver]

nice. Thanks Bob! and thanks kdupreez for the link I am going to try and work this out before my next dive. That club dive 98% of my photos were blurry, due to light and I never turned on the macro button which on my dry land test actually seems to help.

If you didn't turn on the macro function, that explains why your shots were blurry ... you definitely need that turned on.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)