Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

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spatman
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Re: Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

Post by spatman »

lundysd wrote:If some guy gave me 20 bucks because I helped him change a flat tire a few years ago, does that make me a professional mechanic?
If you called yourself a professional mechanic but only made $20, who's to say you are or are not a professional?

Do you consider yourself a professional photographer? What's the threshold of income that makes you a pro or not, and how is that not completely subjective?
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Grateful Diver
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Re: Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

Post by Grateful Diver »

.. I'm sure glad I'm just some schmuck who's finally figured out which end of the camera to point at the fish.

I'm glad we have a photo contest. I've managed a couple prizes, but that's not why I enter ... I mostly just enjoy sharing the pictures I take that I think are worth sharing. If someone else wins, I'm happy for them. Sure, it's tough competing against someone who lives in a tropical paradise and dives every day ... but ask yourself, is winning a contest really why you take pictures?

I think the Dive Expo is the best thing that's ever happened to the local dive community. I'd hate to see it degenerate into bickering and politics, because what's made it so great is that, whatever its faults, it's the one thing that's brought the whole dive community together.

It's a serious commitment of time and resources putting on an event like that. Screw-ups are gonna happen. Do I think it could be better? Yeah ... of course it could. But I also think it's way better than what we had before there was an Expo. This is the first year I didn't work a booth ... I really enjoyed spending a whole day walking around schmoozing with people I don't get to see often enough. This is the first year I didn't enter the photo contest ... not because of any complaint, but because I couldn't think of a picture I've taken that I wanted to share with folks I hadn't already shared it with. So let someone else go for the prizes.

It's easy to complain. Might be more productive though to get ahold of Rick and see if there's something you can do to help make it work out better next year. That is, if you really think there should be an Expo next year ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Threats and ultimatums are never the best answer. Public humiliation via Photoshop is always better - airsix

Come visit me at http://www.nwgratefuldiver.com/
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lundysd
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Re: Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

Post by lundysd »

Spatty that's my point :) Banning anyone who is a "professional" is going to get rid of people who think they are but aren't, and it's going to allow people in who maybe shouldn't be allowed to enter. Rather than basing things on this arbitrary word, a better definition is needed (see my previous post for some examples).

I really do believe having a novice and an open/unrestricted category is the way to go. If I'm a budding amateur/semi-pro photographer, and a contests opens up that is not for "professionals," then you better believe I'm going to enter it if I can rationalize it. If, on the other hand, an unrestricted category exists as well, I think most people who are in the fuzzy gray zone would just enter this category on their own. maybe I'm naive on that one, but it seems to work well for most contests (probably because the biggest prize is in the open category).

Just so everyone is clear here.... I did NOT enter a photo in the contest this year, so I really don't have a dog in this fight either. I would just hate to have friends/colleagues who are borderline because they sold 2 prints last year feel like they can't participate because the rules are fuzzy and they are afraid of an internet lynching if they win.
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Re: Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

Post by Tangfish »

I've got a solution: get rid of the prizes and have a bunch more categories for people to enter their photos into, including ones for different levels of experience and "photo pro" status. After all, it's not a black and white thing... becoming an uw photo pro is a continuum that some people with this costly habit aspire toward. I don't think that selling the first photo makes you a pro, but does the second, fifth or tenth sale of a photo? What about people who get their photo published somewhere but there's no money involved? One definition could be when you start shooting photos of things not because they're beautifully rare or challenging subjects you want to add to your personal collection but because they sell (I shoot a lot of clownfish, turtles and sharks for this reason- hey, I got a camera and housing to pay for!).

It's really hard to put people into such categories when it's such a sliding scale of experience and talent involved. Better to have the contests be about people enjoying beautiful photos and not about judges awarding financial items to people. It makes the rules become more important than the acts of sharing and enjoying photos together, which isn't that what it should be about?

I'd rather have one photo rated as a "great shot" by my fellow divers and non-diver friends, than 10 photos awarded prizes by a small panel of so called experts going by some contrived set of rules and totally subjective set of standards. Maybe that's why I enjoy "likes" from friends rather than comp. prizes and skip the photo contests altogether. My ongoing competition is with myself and I am always interested in and surprised by which photos of mine folks end up liking more than others.

PS- putting any sort of neg on Amanda for living and shooting in the Caymans is preposterous, imho. She dives and shoots all the time so her photos are great. Good for her I say!
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dwashbur
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Re: Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

Post by dwashbur »

Grateful Diver wrote:.. I'm sure glad I'm just some schmuck who's finally figured out which end of the camera to point at the fish.

[snip]

It's easy to complain. Might be more productive though to get ahold of Rick and see if there's something you can do to help make it work out better next year. That is, if you really think there should be an Expo next year ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I'm with you, Bob. I'm just a guy who likes to take pictures of the cool stuff I see beneath the waves. Many people have told me that the pictures my family and I take are of unusual quality for P&S camera users, and that's cool, but I know my photography isn't any kind of world-class material. I take them for my own enjoyment and to remember exceptional dives, and often for the "what was that?" factor. A handful of pictures make the best tool around for critter identification.

As for your last paragraph that I cited above: anybody who hasn't volunteered at the expo at least once, you don't know what you're missing. The level of energy, the chance to interact with the vendors on a whole different level, and just being part of something so massive that's totally devoted to an activity that I love so much - there's nothing like it, and I can't describe the sense of satisfaction that comes from knowing you helped to pull it off. I can't recommend it enough. It's bloody hard work if you do it right, and this past expo I probably overdid things more than once, but the older I get, the more I find myself asking one key question about practically all of my activities and expenses:

Is it worth it?

In the case of working the expo, that's an unqualified YES. I usually end up all over the place; I'll start out working the front desk, handing out goodie bags and giving directions and all that, but since I'm fairly skilled in computer and A/V stuff I generally find myself heading here, there and everywhere to help sort out equipment problems. The volunteers also spend a bit of time watching vendors' booths for them so they can pee etc. It puts you on a different level with the vendors; you're almost an equal rather than just someone who might spend a little $$. It's a whole different world from behind the "volunteer" badge, and I encourage everybody who loves diving to try it. You don't have to commit to the whole three days; anybody who wants to can work a few hours on any of the expo days, as much or as little as they're able. I like to just block out that whole weekend and devote all my energies to it, but other's mileage may vary and that's okay. But give it a try. It's one big way that we of the diving community can help make it successful and help make it better in the future.

[sermon mode off]
Dave

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maelstrom
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Re: Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

Post by maelstrom »

"One can either have very clear, but "unfair," definitions of professional and amateur or one can have "fair" definitions but unclear -- you can't have both. Me, I'd go with clear but unfair."

I think that Peter Guy has defined this issue most concisely.

Hal
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FlyinV
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Re: Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

Post by FlyinV »

In my opinion

By charging an entry fee they need to enforce their rules on the photo contest
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MikeMeagher
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Re: Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

Post by MikeMeagher »

This was my first year entering photos and videos into the Expo competition, and to be honest, I thought that there were a few things that could have been done a little better.

1. The website used to enter photos.. I found it to be buggy, and not very user friendly. The whole submission, paypal thing. It was quite awkward to use in my opinion.

2. My video submission that I had "thought" gone thru, didnt and as such, no video submission. Again, this was a result of the useablility of the website. And my frustrations with the process. I thought that a simple "mail in the submissions, and a check" would have been easier.

3. The actual slide show that was put on saturday night shwoing the photo contest runner ups and winners.. I felt that the projection / technical difficulties were some of the worst that Ive ever seen at any presentation / trade show conference. Images shown on the screen were distorted or images were cropped. A couple of my photos shown had the tops and bottoms chopped off. Timing was faster than I would have liked. IMHO.

4. I relearned a hard lesson, again.. If something seems too good to be true, it is. I was fortunate to win in one of the categories, cold water wide angle. However the prize was a weeks stay at a dive resort in the Phillipines. (I really wanted to win the trip to Jon's Hide a Way) Thats cool.. but... airfare is not included.. and the trip is NOT transerferable. The latter is the real bummer. A trip to the Phillipines is not on my bucket list at this time. It would be nice to give the trip to a buddy that wants to go there. But I cant. But sweepstakes and "prizes" know this going in, that only a small percentage will be collected. Not knowing such was "my bad". I should have read the fine print. If I enter photos next year, I'll look at the prizes for each category, and submit on what prize I want to win. And remember that the real reason to enter is for the "kudos" and 15 minutes of fame.

5. There was information on the photo competition's web site about instead of taking a prize, the winner could take a share of the monies from entry fees collected. But.. after I won a prize.. there was no communication about this option.

I do give Kudos for Rick and the crew for putting on this show.. but.. I hadnt been to this show in a few years, and I noticed that it seemed to be less less attended than my last visit a few years ago. Thats a shame. I think it is due to the changing demographics of this industry as a whole. People have other distractions and alternative activities to do instead of diving. When I was active in the industry 20-30 years ago we seemed to see more "kids" aka younger folks involved. Now a days, seems like only the older/ more professional higher income people that can afford the sport are interested. Somehow the industry needs a revitalization.. a shot in the arm to get more people involved. I remember when we were inspired to go diving by media such as Seahunt or Jacques Coustea shows.
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Grateful Diver
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Re: Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

Post by Grateful Diver »

I know what you mean about the prizes Mike ... three years ago I won a trip to Hawaii. But I already had a full vacation schedule planned for that year and couldn't go ... nor could I give the trip to someone else. It went unused.

I suspect that happens a lot.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Threats and ultimatums are never the best answer. Public humiliation via Photoshop is always better - airsix

Come visit me at http://www.nwgratefuldiver.com/
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Matt S.
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Re: Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

Post by Matt S. »

If there is an interest in making it an amateur-only competition, a better ruleset might be denying entry to anyone who has ever won any prize in a list recognized events.

Defining "pro" vs "amateur" makes pinning down the definition of "obscenity" look easy! Any way you slice it you are going to have compromises.
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DanClements
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Re: Northwest Dive and Travel Show Photo Contest Ringer

Post by DanClements »

A comment and a request.

First, looks like there is not going to be a photo contest as part of the re-branded Northwest Dive and H20 show, which will be held in Seattle this Spring.

Second, we are moving forward with a Northwest underwater photo and video event called Salish Sea Celebration at Town Hall, Seattle, October 4. If possible, would those who are interested review the draft Guidelines http://pnwups.com/images/Salish_Sea/Contest_Rules.pdf and Entry Forms http://pnwups.com/images/Salish_Sea/Entry_Form.pdf that are up for comment?

Hopefully this event will meet a number of the concerns brought up in this thread. There is no charge for entries, photos/videos must be shot in Northwest water, etc.
Dan Clements
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