Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

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LeftCoastScuba
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Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by LeftCoastScuba »

Good afternoon all!

My question is simple (well maybe not), start with two Ikelite DS-51s or one DS-160? I would eventually pick up another DS-160 but that might not be for quite some time. I would like to stick with Ikelite strobes as I am shooting with a Canon SL1 in an Ikelite housing. I don't see myself shooting much wide angle, mostly macro, but when the occasional 6gill comes around I would love to be able to pick up a full shot!

One more question... What is the average size arm length being used? I'm thinking 8inch Ultralight buoyancy arm with a 4 or 5inch arm to strobe.

Thanks!
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YellowEye
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by YellowEye »

Hi!

I'd go with two 51's for macro.

I'd go with one DS 160 if you're doing mostly wide angle. The 51's don't cover as much ground. And one strobe works ok for WA, especially for vertical format images. IMO one strobe doesn't work so well in macro.

I'd go with as long of arms as possible! Helps you reach around and get more interesting lighting.

Have fun! Come hang out with us at ThThTh Thursday night dives some time and we (myself and many other photographers) can geek out on the details!

-Eric
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YellowEye
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by YellowEye »

If you can swing it, you could also get one of each. Put the 160 on the right (top in vertical format) and the 51 on the left. Great coverage with less cost than a dual 160 setup!
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LeftCoastScuba
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by LeftCoastScuba »

Thank you for the advice! If you don't mind me asking what are you currently using?

I will definitely join you guys for a dive or two the next time you meet up, i'd like to get my eyes on what other people are shooting. Which dive sites are you normally splashing at?
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YellowEye
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by YellowEye »

Hi
I have 2 ikelite systems, one for a Nikon d7100 and one for a d300. I have 2 ds160's, 2 ds51's and one ds200. I use the d7100 for wide angle and it also has a 45 degree view finder and a vacuum pump. It is good to have redundancy and the easy ability to switch between wide angle and macro. :)

We dive just about every Thursday night at Three Tree or Redondo depending on tides. Usually we meet at 6:30, do one dive, and go have food/beer after. It is a ton of fun. A variety of camera systems (including video) are represented.

Check the dive planning section for ThThTh dives. They're usually posted the Tuesday before.

-Eric
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dlh
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by dlh »

I suggest that you don't spend more to spend less. If you get a DS-160 + DS51 eventually you will want that second DS160, and end up spending more.

So my suggestion is to:

Option A) Get a single DS-160, get another in a year or so once you've gotten more experience are ready to expand.
Option B) Get a good deal on a pair of used strobes like the DS-125 (nearly identical to DS-160) or similar.

Have fun, and I hope to see you underwater!

Cheers,
Dave
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YellowEye
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by YellowEye »

Good point on used.

I personally do mostly verticals on wide angle. You don't need big power on the bottom. Otherwise you get that Halloween look with things lit from underneath. But for landscape/horizontal shots, double 160's/125's are the way to go. Works for macro too, but it makes your system heavier.
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Scubie Doo
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Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by Scubie Doo »

Not sure I agree. I started with 2-DS51 and they work fine for WA and Macro. I also have 2-DS161. I use the DS51s more than the DS161 simply because they are more compact. I would get the 2-DS51 and then add a DS160 when you can and then a second DS160 later. Having 4 strobes total is great. It gives you a lot of flexibility. The only major drawback imo to the DS51s is the recycle time. Yes, the DS161s are more powerful, but I shoot with them on half strength most the time anyway.

Just my opinion. Don't mean to add confusion. But I personally think it's more important to have 2 strobes than 1. It allows for more creativity in lighting.
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by Tom Nic »

Love the perspectives! Keep 'em coming!
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inflex
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by inflex »

How sure are you about shooting mostly macro? Two DS-51s would be fine for mostly macro, but that'll really limit your shooting options on a variety of dives both locally and around the globe. Personally I suffer from fear of missing out, so I'd go with the more flexible option:

Get one DS160 and save up for the second one.

With strobes the bigger the better, especially in coverage area, power, and cycle time. A little extra power will really make your wide angle shots pop, and shooting rapidly from the hip to get a subject swimming under a sunball is one of my favorite techniques.

With macro, the advantages are marginal. There's some small advantage in being able to cycle faster, like when you set up for a shot but your legs start floating away and you have less than a second to get a couple of snaps in. Also (BTW, I don't know if this is actually true -- just my observation), more powerful strobes give a better highlight lighting in that you get sharper details of light bouncing within the thin mucus membranes of your subjects. With one strobe to start off, however, your scene lighting will be flat.

There are disadvantages to bigger strobes. Primarily, it's the weight and bulk when travelling and moving the setup before and after dives. Hauling around a 45lb rig gets old. Of course, they're also considerably more expensive.

I'd recommend looking for used strobes as well. You'll find a steal as long as you're patient.
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dlh
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by dlh »

On this topic, I was just sorting through my boxes of camera parts and realized that I have an unused DS-125 strobe that is in good working order. This is the model replaced by the DS-160 and is very similar. I replaced my two DS-125's with DS-161s a few years ago. I already sold one of the DS-125s and would happy to send the remaining one to a good home.

I will sell the Strobe + Battery + 1" Ultralite ball mount for $350. That is about $500 less than you'll pay for a new DS-160.

I don't have a spare charger, but can point you to one for about $26 on BatteryJunction.com.
Dave
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LeftCoastScuba
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by LeftCoastScuba »

Thanks all for the wealth of information! I originally thought I would be sticking mainly to macro but now wide angle has caught my imagination. What sort of wide angle shots are most of you taking in the PNW? Is the wide angle game mostly played in clearer water??
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LeftCoastScuba
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by LeftCoastScuba »

dlh wrote:On this topic, I was just sorting through my boxes of camera parts and realized that I have an unused DS-125 strobe that is in good working order. This is the model replaced by the DS-160 and is very similar. I replaced my two DS-125's with DS-161s a few years ago. I already sold one of the DS-125s and would happy to send the remaining one to a good home.

I will sell the Strobe + Battery + 1" Ultralite ball mount for $350. That is about $500 less than you'll pay for a new DS-160.

I don't have a spare charger, but can point you to one for about $26 on BatteryJunction.com.
Hey Dave lets chat!
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dlh
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by dlh »

Hey LeftCoast,

Wide angle in the PNW is totally possible but takes a bit more practice. Even in really poor conditions it is possible to get good pictures, but we get descent water lots of the time. Hazy and limited visibility range is not a problem in my mind, big particulate is more challenging. Wide angle photography requires lots of light from your strobes, and strobe range is only about 10 feet max even in crystal water, so vis is not the limitation. It's all about controlling strobe power and positioning to avoid backscatter.

Here is a sample WA photo in some of the worst particulate conditions I can remember, one of those Egg Soup days. Zoom in to see all the sprinkles:

YellowEye & Wolf Eeel on Day Island Wall:
Day Island Wall April 18 2013 (121 of 135).jpg
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ScubaJess
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by ScubaJess »

WOW what an epic shot Dave!!!
Nice work YellowEye on the modeling skills!
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inflex
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by inflex »

In my opinion, the right camera setup captures a lot more clarity than is observed with the naked eye. Here's a few examples, all taken in typical vis.
IMG_5370.jpg
IMG_5952.jpg
IMG_2881.jpg

That extra bit of pop in clearer waters:
IMG_8586.jpg
IMG_4039.jpg
... and shooting from the hip:
IMG_6526.jpg
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YellowEye
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by YellowEye »

Did you end up getting set up?

I've been discovering that I really like the built-in lights on the 160's lately. It really helps to know exactly where your strobe is pointing. This isn't anything I've used much previously and didn't account for this in my original post...
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H20doctor
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Re: Two Mid-range Strobes or One Big Boy?

Post by H20doctor »

Calvin should chime in here also ... He shot the Death star for many years with Strobes .... Calvin Oh Calvin ??
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