Focal Point

[submarine]

I am very new to the underwater photographer thing. I am shooting a Canon G9 with an Ikelite housing. In order to start slow I am not using a strobe at this point and am staying pretty much with ambient light shots. I have started by just using the program mode and setting the white balance for my water conditions. So, the camera is choosing my exposure settings at this point. I have switched back and forth between macro and regular a bit but, mainly I have been shooting in regular mode. I have noticed that my focal point is not on my subject most of the time. I know that the macro setting will slow the cameras response time but even when not shooting macro I seem to be having focus issues. Any ideas?

[cardiver]

When I had my G0 I set it in the UW mode and macro. I also used a little bit of zoom and the on board flash. Make sure you also have the focus assist light on if you're having trouble locking your focus.

[cardiver]

G9.....Why in the h&#$^ can't I edit my own post?????????????????????????????????

[submarine]

Thanks for the advice Ron!
Did you use any of the pre-set white balance functions? How did they work for you?

[cardiver]

I didn't have it long enough to mess with that. When you set it in the UW mode it automatically adjust white balance to add more red.

[spatman]

hi ron

i use a canon, too, and i've had similar problems. i find it's mostly due to the Auto-Focus feature not really knowing what to choose as it's primary focal point. low light also seems to make it have a harder time focusing.

there are a couple different focus modes you can try. here's a link to the G9 manual if you don't have it handy. i poked around and on page 116 is a description of the different modes: "Selecting an AF Frame Mode". i've found that using the Center mode while shining my light on the subject and holding down the button halfway allows the camera to focus pretty well. then i move my light away, frame my shot and depress the button all the way to snap the pic.

the section on page 123, "Shooting Hard to Focus Subjects" might help a bit, too.

let me know if this helps at all. are you going to the club dive at redondo on saturday? i'd love to check out your camera.

I am very new to the underwater photographer thing. I am shooting a Canon G9 with an Ikelite housing. In order to start slow I am not using a strobe at this point and am staying pretty much with ambient light shots. I have started by just using the program mode and setting the white balance for my water conditions. So, the camera is choosing my exposure settings at this point. I have switched back and forth between macro and regular a bit but, mainly I have been shooting in regular mode. I have noticed that my focal point is not on my subject most of the time. I know that the macro setting will slow the cameras response time but even when not shooting macro I seem to be having focus issues. Any ideas?

[airsix]

I hope it's okay if I piggyback on your thread as I think my problem is similar.

I'm a photography moron, but I think I'm starting to understand some of my problems. I call it "the trifecta of my crappy photography".
Low-light = large aperture = small focal length
Macro = an even smaller focal length, compounding the condition caused by large aperture
Low-light = slow shutter = blurry shots because either me or the subject is moving

I believe that these three conditions in varying combination are the root of my frustration and possibly yours too. I don't know if there is a solution other than MORE LIGHT. What do you great photographers out there think? (by great I mean better than me, so that's all of you)

-Ben

[spatman]

if you're not using a flash at depth, all of these factors definitely make it hard to get a good pic. sometimes you might be able to use a rock or other structure as a tripod, though. but free floating in a very low light situation is almost always a recipe for blurriness. throw in a little bit of surge or current... fuhgeddaboutit.

I hope it's okay if I piggyback on your thread as I think my problem is similar.

I'm a photography moron, but I think I'm starting to understand some of my problems. I call it "the trifecta of my crappy photography".
Low-light = large aperture = small focal length
Macro = an even smaller focal length, compounding the condition caused by large aperture
Low-light = slow shutter = blurry shots because either me or the subject is moving

I believe that these three conditions in varying combination are the root of my frustration and possibly yours too. I don't know if there is a solution other than MORE LIGHT. What do you great photographers out there think? (by great I mean better than me, so that's all of you)

-Ben

[dwashbur]

My Canon is that A630. Since we take a lot of close-up pictures, I keep the dial set on Aperture priority, and keep the aperture set at f/8.0, keep the camera in macro mode, and always use the flash. It seems to be a winning combination with that camera, so you might try it with your Canon and see what happens. I'm not familiar with the G9; does it have the PowerShot technology?

[cardiver]

The G9 is a Power Shot camera.

[Nwbrewer]

i use a canon, too, and i've had similar problems. i find it's mostly due to the Auto-Focus feature not really knowing what to choose as it's primary focal point. low light also seems to make it have a harder time focusing.

i've found that using the Center mode while shining my light on the subject and holding down the button halfway allows the camera to focus pretty well. then i move my light away, frame my shot and depress the button all the way to snap the pic.

That helps me. I use the sidespill from my light to light up the subject, press the button halfway down to achieve focus, then move the light away before snappig the pic. Seems to work OK with my SD 550....

[spatman]

I use the sidespill from my light to light up the subject, press the button halfway down to achieve focus, then move the light away before snappig the pic. Seems to work OK with my SD 550....

sidespill, schmidespill. blind that sucker so it freezes in place long enough for you to take your pic!

just kidding, of course. i use my sidespill as well.

[submarine]

That helps me. I use the sidespill from my light to light up the subject, press the button halfway down to achieve focus, then move the light away before snappig the pic. Seems to work OK with my SD 550....

I did tie-wrap a light (with a homemade defuser) to the housing but, the spot still showed in the pics. I will have to cover it or use a different method to get some light on the subject. Thanks for the thoughts!

Some of my problems, I'm sure, stem from the conditions that I was diving in. The surge was real strong and even when I could brace myself to hold a position the subjects move allot with the surge. So, in that condition you are asking for a very quick focus and shot. I would think that moving from Program to Aperture Priority (fixing a lower f-stop) would help give a bit more depth of field. Maybe???

Also, I have read to keep the focus beam off. Any thoughts, one way or another?

[dwashbur]

I was told that a higher f-stop, 8.0 being the highest my camera goes, gave a better depth of field. And we always use the focus light, haven't tried it without yet. As for light on the subject, I built a little widget to mount the camera to the top of my UK 100 light cannon, and it works pretty well. My daughter usually carries the Canon and doesn't like having the two mounted together, so as often as not my wife or I will put our light on the subject while she takes the picture. It's especially useful for super-close-up shots, because we've discovered a problem with the Canon housing when using the built-in flash. The "snout" that the lens extends into when the camera is turned on tends to block light from the built-in flash, in the lower right corner of the field of view. So we use our lights to fill that in.

I hope that's not too convoluted...

[submarine]

I was told that a higher f-stop, 8.0 being the highest my camera goes, gave a better depth of field.

Aperture terminology is alway confusing... I did mean a smaller opening and you are correct that it is a higher numbered f-stop.
I did take a few shots where my wife held the light on the subject and it worked pretty well. I don't know if I can convince her to work with me full time on our dive though.

[nice-diver]

put your camera in auto, use the built in flash and shoot little stuff like anemones and nudi's and starfish. they don't move, they're colorful and you can hold your position with your finger tips. and Take Your Time, your not in a race. When you are happy and learn the camera; then you can experiment with backing away and using the zoom to see what the camera is capable of. I use my can-lite to help focus and pull it away also on some shots.

you can change your ISO (film speed) if your camera can. A big number will let you take pictures in lower light, but you may be bothered with the course "grain" now called noise. to remember your dive it could be fine, a finer grain looks nicer in the 8x10 on the wall.

Without a flash it will be hard to take wide angle shots in PNW dark silty water, but you can get ok green fuzzy shots of near forgrounds.

I use a simple nikon point and shoot (until last week).


When you open up your aperature to increase your depth of field (big f #= small hole) your shutter speed slows down causing blur from your hands or the moving subject. Depth of field comes from the amount of light (information) being recorded on the "film" Lots of light=lots of information in the forground, subject, and background being recorded, but at the risk of camera shake because of the long time to take the picture.

[submarine]

What do most of you consider an acceptable shutter speed for Macro (still object) shots? How about for fish?

[Nwbrewer]

My camera has 50 100 200 400. 400 works but has too much graininess. I mack it off a bit and use 200 which seems to work pretty well. With a strobe I could probably get away with 100.

[nice-diver]

You'll want to use a slow shutter speed for macro to allow the shutter to stay open long enough to capture all of the detail.

For fish you would want a faster shutter speed to stop the action of the moving fish.

[Fishstiq]

I'm a photography moron, but I think I'm starting to understand some of my problems. I call it "the trifecta of my crappy photography".
Low-light = large aperture = small focal length
Macro = an even smaller focal length, compounding the condition caused by large aperture
Low-light = slow shutter = blurry shots because either me or the subject is moving

You and Pez should get together and make a bet on who thinks their pics are worse! You sound just like him! You guys could make an event of it, call it the "Great NWDC Crap-Off Photo Contest", take bets, give an over/under.... Nailer would make a great bookie/enforcer.

Honestly, I think 99% of it is the camera. I have an Exilm, no strobe or anything, and I've gotten some shots I'm pretty proud of. Trust me, it's not my skill as a diver or photographer that's causing this random success. In fact, if any of you frustrated photographers out there are gonna be at the club dive, you are welcome to try my camera out and see if you like it or it makes a difference at all. I just use auto focus, auto flash, and set it on macro (it automatically switches out of macro if you get too for away from your subject, then switches back when you get close again, so I leave it on macro all the time).

[airsix]

Honestly, I think 99% of it is the camera.

I wish I could claim it was the camera's fault but I can't. There are several others here with the same rig who take superb pictures. I've accepted that it's all me. I've just got to work at it more.

it automatically switches out of macro if you get too for away from your subject, then switches back when you get close again, so I leave it on macro all the time).

Now THAT is an awesome feature!

-Ben

[submarine]

You'll want to use a slow shutter speed for macro to allow the shutter to stay open long enough to capture all of the detail.

For fish you would want a faster shutter speed to stop the action of the moving fish.

Do you have some approximations on speeds you are shooting?

[nice-diver]

saturday (after my dentist appt.) I was in bright silty water shooting macro shots of nudi's and seaweed. camera set to manual; ISO set to 100; shutter speed set to 1/100; appature between f5.6-f11; flash set on manual and used at 1/4 and 1/16th power; subject range was inches from lense port.

my next time in the water (fri eve) I will be trying to set the appature at f11-f18 to increase my depth of field in the current/surgy water and then probably using the 1/4 power setting on the flash.

click on my flickr link in my signature to see my pics.
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this pic 1/100 and f6.3= very narrow depth of field

[nice-diver]

[Scott G]

I am very new to the underwater photographer thing. I am shooting a Canon G9 with an Ikelite housing. In order to start slow I am not using a strobe at this point and am staying pretty much with ambient light shots. I have started by just using the program mode and setting the white balance for my water conditions. So, the camera is choosing my exposure settings at this point. I have switched back and forth between macro and regular a bit but, mainly I have been shooting in regular mode. I have noticed that my focal point is not on my subject most of the time. I know that the macro setting will slow the cameras response time but even when not shooting macro I seem to be having focus issues. Any ideas?

Use the "Flexzone" focus areas... they are easily adjustable with the dial on your G9 and are by far the best solution to this i've seen in a P&S camera.

Scott