Cold Water Regs?

[Neutral Buoyancy]

I'm finally getting a chance to purchase my own gear. Or Santa is. My preference in diving is warm. Warm water. But I live here and on occasion I do dive here, and enjoy it. I've always rented my gear and i don't remember what type of reg I used here in the cold water. I've read a lot about cold water regs, with heat exchangers, etc. My question is - A) Is a cold water reg necessary here? B) What type of regs do you use?

[dsteding]

Having an environmentally sealed first stage is a good thing around here, imho. But, that is all I've owned.

Regarding regs I use, I have Aqualung Legends for my singles rig, and like them. I have Apeks XTX200s for my doubles, and absolutely, completely love them. Easy breathing, light, compact, and I've had no problems to date (probably 15-20 dives on them). The Legends seem a bit more finicky in comparison, a bit more prone to free-flow, and I don't think they breathe as nice.

I've also had a chance to dive with Scubapro MK25/S600s, and they were really nice, and I know lots of people on this board use and rave about Atomics, which are also great regs.

I also have Salvo regs, which are nice regs if you are on a budget. These are currently out on loan, but they breathe well at shallower (~60-70 feet or less) depths, and are pretty dependable. Just don't drop a tank on them . . .

[lamont]

I also have Salvo regs, which are nice regs if you are on a budget. These are currently out on loan, but they breathe well at shallower (~60-70 feet or less) depths, and are pretty dependable. Just don't drop a tank on them . . .

Apeks AT50/ATX50 with DS4 first stages are also good regs, but breathe kind of wet after having a tank squish them.

I'm a few months into my Atomics Z2s and so far really like them.

[dsteding]

Apeks AT50/ATX50 with DS4 first stages are also good regs, but breathe kind of wet after having a tank squish them.

Lamont, are you also speaking from personal experience? My Salvos had a HP130 fall on them, and one was obliterated. Very depressing.

Dan at NWSD was able to gut it and replace the housing for not too much money, and it was good as new . . .

[Sounder]

I love my Atomic B2 and Z2. I tried several regulators before buying and these were the best choice for me.

[Neutral Buoyancy]

Having an environmentally sealed first stage is a good thing around here, imho. But, that is all I've owned.

Tell me more about this sealed first stage. I'm looking at a Legends ACD (Auto Closure Device) This "Auto-Closure Device (ACD): This new safety feature provided on inner fitting of Yoke and the DIN, keeps the 1st stage closed and protected from the environment immediately after being removed from cylinder valve, to prevent water and contaminants from entering inside the 1st stage, preserving the peak performance of your regulator and maintaing" Is this something like you are talking about?
It looks like these regs you both mentioned are cold water regs. So I guess in answer to my first question you both do recommend a cold water reg?

[diver-dad]

... My preference in diving is warm. Warm water. But I live here ...

Maybe if you got a REEEALY big bathtub??

[runamonk]

I have two different regs and so far both have been fantastic.

Highly Recommend the Apex XTX50. I'm currently using this as my primary and using my Tusa S-30 (RS-130 first stage).

Fantastic for both although I like the Apex better, it's more adjustable and breaths easier.

[runamonk]

Having an environmentally sealed first stage is a good thing around here, imho. But, that is all I've owned.

Tell me more about this sealed first stage. I'm looking at a Legends ACD (Auto Closure Device) This "Auto-Closure Device (ACD): This new safety feature provided on inner fitting of Yoke and the DIN, keeps the 1st stage closed and protected from the environment immediately after being removed from cylinder valve, to prevent water and contaminants from entering inside the 1st stage, preserving the peak performance of your regulator and maintaing" Is this something like you are talking about?
It looks like these regs you both mentioned are cold water regs. So I guess in answer to my first question you both do recommend a cold water reg?

This is just so that water will not get into the first stage I believe. It closes when there isn't air pressure to keep it open. This way you don't have worry about rust.

With my first stage it has a rubber cover that gets held in place by the knob on the back of the first stage, this is what holds it onto the din or yoke value stem. If I don't keep the rubber cover in place while the 1st stage isn't in use moisture or even worse water could get in there an cause corrosion and rust.

[dsteding]

Tell me more about this sealed first stage. I'm looking at a Legends ACD (Auto Closure Device) This "Auto-Closure Device (ACD) . . . Is this something like you are talking about? It looks like these regs you both mentioned are cold water regs. So I guess in answer to my first question you both do recommend a cold water reg?

The ACD is not what I was referring to, it is simply a device that seals off the intake on the first stage when you unscrew it from your tank, reducing the possibility of getting water in it.

Environmentally sealed regs have a diaphram that seals off the first stage from the surrounding water. This keeps water from coming into contact with the inner workings of the first stage, and reduces the chances of freezing from the cold temperatures generated by the expanding gas in the first stage combined with a lack of warm water to keep the first stage warm.

Here is a better explanation (note, this is in the context of Zeagles, but applies to all "environmentally sealed" regs).

http://www.scubatoys.com/store/regs/EnviroSealed.asp

Most higher end regs have this feature, and some regs, like the Aqualung Legends offer a specific "cold water" modification (I think it is designated by being called "Supreme" for the Legends). That cold water modification is basically de-tuning the reg for cold water use, in the case of my Legends, I didn't opt for this, the environmentally sealed first stage was enough for around here.

The fact that most high-end regs are now "environmentally sealed" brings me to another point: buy the BEST regs you can afford. This is one area NOT to skimp on, in my humble, relatively newbie opinion. Regs are life support equipment, and I get piece of mind from buying tried and true regs from solid companies that have good reputations. Aqualung, Apeks (now owned by AL), Scubapro and Atomics would all fit that bill. One of the reasons I upgraded to the Legends (when the tank squashed my Salvos) was because these are better built and engineered regs (but more expensive) and this was also one of the reasons I went with the Apeks XTX200s when I put my doubles together.

Also, while I am pontificating, buy locally. Another source of piece of mind is being able to take them to a shop and have them tweak them if need be. I've bought my regs from Northwest Sports Divers, and Dan is a great reg tech. Where I have had issues (my Legends were a bit finicky at first) I've been able to drop them with Dan and he's adjusted them at no charge to get things perfect. I'll shamelessly plug that shop, but there are other good shops in town as well . . .

The whole free parts thing from buying from an authorized dealer is another good reason to do so.

[Neutral Buoyancy]

Runamonk wrote:

With my first stage it has a rubber cover that gets held in place by the knob on the back of the first stage, this is what holds it onto the din or yoke value stem. If I don't keep the rubber cover in place while the 1st stage isn't in use moisture or even worse water could get in there an cause corrosion and rust.

I'm familiar with the rubber cover, etc, etc. It's the environmentally sealed first stage, dsteding mentioned, that I know little about. I was wondering if the ACD on the Legends reg was just such a device that dsteding was referring to.
Thank you for your comments on the regs you use runamonk.

[runamonk]

Runamonk wrote:

With my first stage it has a rubber cover that gets held in place by the knob on the back of the first stage, this is what holds it onto the din or yoke value stem. If I don't keep the rubber cover in place while the 1st stage isn't in use moisture or even worse water could get in there an cause corrosion and rust.

I'm familiar with the rubber cover, etc, etc. It's the environmentally sealed first stage, dsteding mentioned, that I know little about. I was wondering if the ACD on the Legends reg was just such a device that dsteding was referring to.
Thank you for your comments on the regs you use runamonk.

=)

[diver-dad]

... Is a cold water reg necessary here?

Actually, that is a really good question.

From what I've read, there are a variety of opinions to what "cold water" means. I have seen discussions where below 50 was considered "cold" to others saying "cold water" reg needs kick in around high 30's to 40 deg F water.

I'm not sure that you need to worry about cold water regs since the water (in my limited experience) here is usually in the mid-40's to mid-50's range, though I understand that the Hood Canal can get pretty chilly in the winter.

However, we need some other's inputs here from the more experienced Sound crowd!

For the record, I dive Mares Proton Metal. Love it.

Interesting reading on this at:
http://www.wetdawg.com/pages/under_tips ... t=251&c=34
http://www.scuba-diving-news.com/Articl ... tegoryID=2

[runamonk]

It was significantly colder when we dove up at quadra but none of our regs had any problems. The only time I've had a freeze up is when I've held the purge to drain a little extra air from the tank for buoyancy testing or something. I would imagine it's a necessity when diving in 30 deg or colder.

[nice-diver]

not an expert but most regulators will dive fine in cold water. If you are gonna go ice diving(i know you probly won't) that would be a good time to look into a cold reg where the water is near freezing. two weeks ago I dove 42 degrees F with my usdivers SE2 and they dove great.

the sealed regs are great because colorine water, salt water, muddy water, or nasty water doesn't get in where it can be hard it rince out at the end of the day.

[Neutral Buoyancy]

From what I've read, there are a variety of opinions to what "cold water" means. I have seen discussions where below 50 was considered "cold" to others saying "cold water" reg needs kick in around high 30's to 40 deg F water.

Yeah yeah I was hoping this would come up in the discussion. What I've been reading on company websites it would seem that 50 degrees or colder defines "cold water". I wa hoping to see what people in the club would write based on experience.

And I agree,dsteding, this is not an area to skim with.

[runamonk]

Have to agree with dsteding, I would get the best I could afford. Just remember you're going to end up buying alot of stuff. So depending on how much you want to buy at once you'll end up compromising hehe.

[Cera]

We have used quite a few and I agree that the ATX are great regs, my husband and I both have ATX 200's and we love them... we also have the legend supreme and its pretty good. Our octos are ATX 50 and they work well also. I like them because they hardly ever freeflow and breathe so nice....

[lamont]

Apeks AT50/ATX50 with DS4 first stages are also good regs, but breathe kind of wet after having a tank squish them.

Lamont, are you also speaking from personal experience? My Salvos had a HP130 fall on them, and one was obliterated. Very depressing.

Dan at NWSD was able to gut it and replace the housing for not too much money, and it was good as new . . .

Personal experience. The exhaust valve was crushed just enough that it passed a check at the surface, but breathed wetter and wetter on the way down. I found it when I did a valve drill at about 40 fsw and when I went on my backup I got an extremely wet breath and I reversed that valve drill very quickly... I confirmed at the surface that it was definitely wetter if you breathed really hard on it, but otherwise seemed to work fine.

[thelawgoddess]

i have a tx50 and love it. i can't wait until i can replace my octo with another one!

[Pinkpadigal]

Atomic. Atomic. Atomic.

I had an Apex AX50 which is a good regulator but the first time I breathed off my B2 at a 100 feet, there was a huge different. HUGE. I also found my breathing was more comfortable and I use less air.

I would not trade my B2 for anything...well maybe a T2. But, at $1500, my B2 (which is half the price) is just fine.

[diver-dad]

I was hoping this would come up in the discussion. What I've been reading on company websites it would seem that 50 degrees or colder defines "cold water". I wa hoping to see what people in the club would write based on experience.

Pulled out the owner manual for my reg (Mares Proton Metal)....

Apparently, there is an industry standard: EN 250: 2000 that defines requirements "aimed at providing a minimum safety level for the operation of diving breathing apparatii at a max depth of 162 fsw (50 msw)."

Here, the trip point is 50 deg F / 10 deg C. Below that is considered "cold water." Need to look into that when I bring it in for the annual next month.

While my reg is "approved" for use below 50 deg F, it requires a Cold Water Diving Kit for that application. The CWD Kit "completely seals off the 1st stage internals from contact with the water."

[Neutral Buoyancy]

Ok ok. Does anyone know of any reason a cold water reg should/could not be used in warm water?

I don't see any but what do I know ? But seriously, does "cold water reg" mean "all climate reg?"

[diver-dad]

... does "cold water reg" mean "all climate reg?"

That's what I'm thinking!

I have seen / read nothing to indicate otherwise.

[Neutral Buoyancy]

Off the subject, I like the avatar diver-dad. It's snowing!!!

On the subject I was just reading on one manufacturer's web site about a cold water first stage and it states,"It is equally popular in all other environments with demanding and selective divers who appreciate smooth air delivery and maximum breathing performance in the diaphragm category."