Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

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ljjames
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Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by ljjames »

This one does!!!!!!!!

Got to dive the new prototype electric undies from DUI today... i gotta say, heated drygloves are the bestest, most amazing thing EVAH! wowowowow! worth the price of admission!

seriously, even if you don't go up and dive suits, take a look at the heated undies... totally awesome!!!!!!!

the full set is hands, torso and feet. but as i understand it, items will likely be available separately. (no, not just one hand and one foot) ;)
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by LCF »

How do the heated gloves work? I mean, how do they hook up to the power source? How thick are they -- dexterity? Inquiring minds want to know!
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by -Aaron- »

Laura,

Do you have any idea of when they will be available for sale? We are on the verge of getting a heated vest for my dive buddy, but this is sounding like a pretty compelling option if it will be out sometime soon. Thanks for the heads up and information :).
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by ljjames »

in a few months (end of the year) is the hope, and the price sounds like they are aiming for is less than the current systems by a pretty few hundred bucks. The systems will end up being available separately or as a whole kit.

Heating time is 1.5 hours on full power.

the only down side is you will need a different battery pack than we (tech divers) generally have laying around. Due to regulations, they are actually 6v systems (as opposed to what our lights run on). They are working on a few ideas, combining it into the weight and trim system, a waist strap mount, and a tank mount.

The idea is that this is not just for tech divers, this is for ALL divers, to make diving in cold water more enjoyable :)

the heated gloves wiring runs down the arms of a stretch liner type, or in some of the units, ran down the arms of the Powerstretch 300 - or in my case the stretchliner 100) feet wires run down the legs. The heating part of the gloves runs across the top of the hand out the fingers. The gloves are actually quite thin, and were ridiculously dexterous. At no point did i notice any of the wiring, not in the panels themselves, the gloves or conduits down the legs and arms. I wore them with the thinnest undergarments, so i would have noticed i think, because there was almost nothing between me and the suit/water.

the heating panels of the vest are MUCH larger than the heating panels in any other vest i've used and seen.
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by CaptnJack »

Sounds nice, but not being able to run it off a light canister with an E/O wet connector (or impulse brand) is a huge huge nit. I'm not sure what regulations you're referring to but a 6v system is next to useless for me and most other canister light owning diver's (which is many in colder less than gin clear water). I don't have enough waist to store another canister (which is the predominant reason I like suit heat ;).

How many watts is the shirt? pant? complete?
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by -Aaron- »

The separate battery pack doesn't really bother be, but it would be nice to have an option for a longer lasting battery. A weight and trim mount or standard backplate webbing mount would be handy. Laura, are there user selectable power settings or an external power switch on the system? Is the battery pack easy to swap out if we wanted to have a spare or a longer run time? My dive buddy currently uses a Power Stretch 300, so something integrated in to that would be perfect. It would be great to get an idea of the wattage numbers on the heaters.

CaptnJack are you currently just running your suit heater off a second canister battery or are you using some kind of splitter? I have been asking around about doing split power for light and heating from the same canister and have gotten near universal negativity from the manufacturers. Light Monkey said that the Li-Po batteries they use in their new lights wouldn't work with with splitting. Any of the newer light models with remote ballast don't support using a splitter, and most people I talked to expressed concern about a heater bypassing the discharge limits on the battery and damaging it. So in the end what I came away with was, just get a separate cannister and quit trying to run both off the same battery. The added advantage of that is that is that you can potentially turn your heater off separately from your light. Anyway, not saying whatever system you are using isn't viable, just saying from a new buyers perspective it was looking like I was going to have to have a separate battery for the heater anyway, so doesn't seem like a huge drawback to me.
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by ljjames »

the batteries will be hot swappable... you can have second set of batteries for deco. yes there will be options. the draw is too high for single battery (two 6v packs to run it) yes, the one i used had a full power and a 70% power setting that was easy for me to operate underwater. to give you an idea of the warmth, they don't recommend having them turned on out of the water (for more than the walk down to beach) and having worn them, anecdotally they seem warmer than the BTS system.

re: regulations... military regulations, cause supposedly anything over 7v can stop yer heart or something if you get electrocuted by it.. all i know is dems the rules... whether it makes sense or not.
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

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fwiw, i run the BTS vest off a separate 9ah pack. i've taken to running a 13.5 and a 9 on my waist already so i can video AND have a signal light when i'm diving with new buddies. if i'm loaning out lights (the 9ah is less intimidating than the 13.5) or want extra long burn time for vid then will run two 13.5's. if i have enough waist to do it, well... no whining from you regular sized folks. ;)
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by ljjames »

richard, the prototype i used is 70 watts for vest and 35 each for gloves and boots.
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

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-Aaron- wrote: CaptnJack are you currently just running your suit heater off a second canister battery or are you using some kind of splitter? I have been asking around about doing split power for light and heating from the same canister and have gotten near universal negativity from the manufacturers. Light Monkey said that the Li-Po batteries they use in their new lights wouldn't work with with splitting. Any of the newer light models with remote ballast don't support using a splitter, and most people I talked to expressed concern about a heater bypassing the discharge limits on the battery and damaging it. So in the end what I came away with was, just get a separate cannister and quit trying to run both off the same battery. The added advantage of that is that is that you can potentially turn your heater off separately from your light. Anyway, not saying whatever system you are using isn't viable, just saying from a new buyers perspective it was looking like I was going to have to have a separate battery for the heater anyway, so doesn't seem like a huge drawback to me.
Most people doing deco dives do NOT want a heater on the bottom but they do want it on ascent. With an E/O cord you can shut down the canister, unplug the lighthead, plug in the suit heat for the deco, then flip the switch back on. Its not used on the bottom phase to avoid encouraging any additional on-gassing and then losing the heater later in the dive.

Many people (although not so much in Puget Sound proper) also carry an "oh shit" canister with things like an epirb and flares in it. Its really hard to have a light/video canister, suit heat, and an emergency canister all on you at one time. 2 canisters work, 3 not so much. Not really likin' the thought of being lost at sea, nor being without 21w or more of HID equivalent light on the bottom means that suit heat is often forgone.

The remote ballast HIDs are kinda pointless (I have one in my fleet of lights) as the lighthead really isn't much smaller. As of today the Aton LED light (sold by Tillytec and UTD here in the States) or a 21W hand ballasted HID are both equally viable and can be rigged with E/O cords. And these also mate with the common E/O coming off a 15Ah video canister. This also allows you to carry (for instance on big cave dives) a complete separate lighthead (generally smaller like a 10W) in a pocket.

Bottom line is while I certainly encourage innovation many highly experienced people have worked out various lighting (hand and video) systems which a 6v battery is incongruent with. Since these people (of which I could be tangentially part of I suppose) are the ones actually genuinely needing suit heat, a 6V system is going to be an uphill sell.

(otherwise I certainly agree that you don't want a Y connector going from 1 canister to both a lighthead and a suit heater at the same time)

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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

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apparently there are studies coming out that show that heating during the dive is more benefitial with regards to comfort and decompression than getting cold and shunting blood to core, etc... that its better to keep the body warm, because we just dont have the capability to reheat a diver in cold water (with this or any other heating system on the market). if you want that data, i recommend dropping a line to faith at DUI and perhaps she can direct you to it. apparently if you can stay warm enough with the heating units, the 'cold' clock starts if you turn off the heater or its batteries run out. if you are able to handle a 1hr dive in your current undergarments, then that 1 hr starts when heating unit stops (in this case after 1.5 hrs)
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

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ljjames wrote: because we just dont have the capability to reheat a diver in cold water (with this or any other heating system on the market).
Actually I can definitely say this is inaccurate. I have been plenty cold on the bottom to the point of shivering and absolutely roasting on deco - its not just me either. Either with suit heat (50-55W btw) or from a thermocline, both can be highly effective at rewarming. Regarding the rest, Rubicon's repository has ample evidence that heat is effective at lowering decompression stress (after getting cold or just in general) the thing you want to avoid is planning on it being there after for you accumulating a substantial deco obligation.

I am looking at a new suit heater (the impulse connector for my old one remains on what is now my very much backup suit). But I will be powering off my older SLA canisters but those are 12V nominal so I guess DUI's won't be on my short list.
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by ljjames »

you can always put 6v packs in your old canisters. ;)

the power comes through your drysuit inlet valve, no need for another hole in the suit.

Richard, i was not talking about 'perceived' warmth. As i said, drop a line to faith at DUI...
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by LCF »

The last papers I read (and I was talking to somebody who was at the Dog Days last night about this) showed pretty clearly that staying warm during the bottom time and getting cold on deco led to much higher grade bubbling than the reverse. For relatively shallow diving in the Sound, it probably doesn't matter, but for staged decompression diving, I'd be really reluctant to use a heating system that wasn't powerful enough to warm me up on deco.
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by ljjames »

agreed, but the idea here is keeping you warmer the -whole- time... :)

Personally, i'd likely run it at a lower temp during the dive just to reduce my heat loss, and increase my comfort and then when i stopped moving at the end of a dive turn it up. I've always been a bit curious about reperfusion issues. I know my hands get unhappy and almost inflamed after a dive or day of diving where they've gotten brutally cold, and the next day they are hypersensitive and i have to wear a half size larger glove at work. one thing i did notice after my dive with the heated gloves is that i didn't have any of that, my sensitivity in my hands was the same as if i'd not been diving at all.
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Re: Do cyborgs dream of electric underwear?!

Post by Pinkpadigal »

I didn't get a chance to dive the electric undergarment, but I tried the gloves. They were pretty amazing. The entire glove was heated and warm within 20 seconds.

What is a selling point for me, as a recreational diver is the thin undergarment, along with a lightweight suit. It will allow divers to have amazing flexibility and use a lot less weight.
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