Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

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Mattleycrue76
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Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by Mattleycrue76 »

I've been looking at getting one that will serve me well for both fishing and diving (mostly diving) and am a bit confused by all the options out there. I don't have a budget yet, just trying to find the sweet spot where I get good value for the money spent. The HDS units from Lowrance look really awesome (especially the ability to upgrade to side scan later) but I've heard terrible things about their support/customer service. Humminbird seems to have some nice choices as well.

For you boater/divers out there, what are you looking for in a GPS/Chart plotter?
"The She-Ps didn't work for either one of us, however- we accidently glued one to Dan's cat, and the other one ended up in a DEA evidence locker somehow." - Joshua Smith
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by dsteding »

My buddies just put a h-bird 5 series on their boat, color gps/sounder with the HD and down imaging option. The DI looks slick for diving, I'll let you know about it once I get out on their boat. I know Richard has a h-bird on his boat, I had a lowrance on mine. All seem to work well.
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To clarify.........

I cannot stress enough that this is MY PROBLEM.
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Mattleycrue76
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by Mattleycrue76 »

The H-birds look reall nice as well. After reading about it, I think the down imaging could prove to be even more useful than side scan for diving, especially if you already know the wreck is there and its only a matter of identifying it. Side scan would on the other hand be better for "mowing the lawn" type searches. The SS on the Humminbird models is only good to 150ft whereas I've personally seen Lowrances SS identify a wreck at 240 ft. It seems to me that if down imaging is sufficient the H-bird would be preferable whereas Lowrance seems to have the upper hand on side scan.
"The She-Ps didn't work for either one of us, however- we accidently glued one to Dan's cat, and the other one ended up in a DEA evidence locker somehow." - Joshua Smith
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by dsteding »

That is my thinking. We should be out over the shilshole barges in the next couple of weeks, I'll report back.
Fishstiq wrote:
To clarify.........

I cannot stress enough that this is MY PROBLEM.
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by BillZ »

If you're looking for charplotter/fishfinder with side scan, the Lowrance would definately be the way to go and their pricing as compared to others is reasonable (it's a boat so the definition of "reasonable" is relative :-) ). That said, their customer service is terrible. My original charplotter on my boat was a Lowrance and it crapped out after 6 years. I called Lowrance and after waiting 2 hours on the phone they told me that it was too old and they wouldn't even look at it.
The Furuno's are bullet proof and built to last but you pay for that level of quality. I have the original 2002 Furuno fishfinder on my boat and it works flawlessly.
I've heard that Raymarine is having financial problems and may go belly-up, but this could just be typical banter from competitor.
After doing a bunch of research I ended up replacing my charplotter with a Garmin network unit with HD radar. The Garmin is easy to use and install. I can add a transducer and use its fishfinder, but as I mentioned the Furuno still works great and I'd rather not put another hole in my boat adding a second transducer.
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by Mattleycrue76 »

One of the problems I'm running into in my research is that all of the feedback is coming from fishermen, not divers looking to identify wrecks. Also most of them seem to be on lakes, bass fishing etc. so it's hard to say how that experience would translate to our environment. I've heard that Furuno and Raymarine both make good stuff but the fishermen seem to swear by Lowrance and Humminbird. The Humminbird 597ci HD with down imaging is $649 whereas the Lowrance HDS units are running about the same but require the SS1 to add Side Scan and down Scan which adds about another $500 or so if I understand correctly.
"The She-Ps didn't work for either one of us, however- we accidently glued one to Dan's cat, and the other one ended up in a DEA evidence locker somehow." - Joshua Smith
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by selkie »

"BOAT" = Brake, Out, Another, Thousand, = also known as a boat unit :pirate:
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Maritime Archaeological Society (MAS)
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http://www.divinghistory.org/
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boydski
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by boydski »

Lots of good information above. I had a Humminbird Side Scan on my 22' O/S and really liked it. It was fast, stable, accurate and very easy to remove/install in the boat. If I were running and open boat (aka Zodiac), I'd buy another one. However, as you mentioned above, they are depth limited to about 150'. They absolutely will not be able to see even a large wreck in 200' of water.

In my 26' O/S (the Dive Bum), I have a pair of Lowrance HDS units. The newly released version 4.0 software takes care of most of the deficiencies. I just ran my units for 12+ hours per day for 3 straight days without a hiccup. The early versions would have crashed and rebooted every couple of hours.

One of the big advantages of the Lowrance units (besides the 200' depth), is that they network very well. Stick something on the NMEA 2000 bus and it just works. It's easy to add Radar, IPOD stereo, data from your engines on your display, AIS positioning, DSC info, etc, etc. They are really far ahead of the other manufacturers in their ability to co-exist and network with just a few exceptions (you can't share charts like a Raymarine unit and their customer service has been poor).

You mentioned the down imaging, and to be honest, I don't find it to be all that useful. For example, here is one of the wrecks we found yesterday. The Down imaging doesn't really give me a lot of information. Can you tell me what this is?

Image
BTW, fluffy stuff in the top left corner is fish netting.


I do find the Side Scan to be very, very good. It will give you a lot of information if you learn how to interpret it. For example in this screen shot, look at the shadow created by the wreck and you can see that it stands up off the bottom very tall.

Image
This particular wreck is well beyond recreational limits in salt water.


You can also use the side scan to measure things, like this image, measuring the length of a sunken Dry Dock:

Image


When locating a wreck to drop a shot line in deep water for a dive, we always switch to the regular fish finder, as the beam width is much narrower than the down imaging, so will enable you to position the boat within 18" of the wreck.

Also, if you can afford it, the soft buttons on the HDS 8 & 10 are very nice. They make operating the units easy and allow you to switch between screens quickly. I agree with the comments above about Furuno (which we had on the Mark V), but I was never impressed with their Sonar. Lowrance is generally considered to have the best Sonar, just hope it doesn't crap out on you!
Last edited by boydski on Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mattleycrue76
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by Mattleycrue76 »

Thanks for the input Scott. My dilemma is that I don't see myself spending hours or days serching for unknown stuff in my 14' RIB. OTOH, although I don't (yet) do 200+ ft dives, if I'm gonna drop a huge wad of $$ on SS then I'd like it to go deeper than 150'. I would find the down imaging screenshot you posted quite useful if i was trying to locate a wreck I already knew was there (like something out of your book). If I just came across it somewhere I wouldn't really be able to tell if it was a good dive target or not. So do the HDS units do DI out of the box or do they require the L-SS1 transducer?
"The She-Ps didn't work for either one of us, however- we accidently glued one to Dan's cat, and the other one ended up in a DEA evidence locker somehow." - Joshua Smith
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by boydski »

Mattleycrue76 wrote:Thanks for the input Scott. My dilemma is that I don't see myself spending hours or days serching for unknown stuff in my 14' RIB.
For a 14' RIB, I'd look seriously at the Humminbird. They put all the connectors in a frame that attaches with one thumb screw. This makes it super easy to remove the unit from the boat when you're not using it. Most other chartplotter/fishfinders require you to disconnect 3-4 connectors every time you want to remove the unit.
Mattleycrue76 wrote: So do the HDS units do DI out of the box or do they require the L-SS1 transducer?
Down Imaging requires the LSS-1 transducer (to get the high frequency sonar). The higher the frequency, the more detail you get, but the signal drops off faster with depth.
Mattleycrue76 wrote:I would find the down imaging screenshot you posted quite useful if i was trying to locate a wreck I already knew was there (like something out of your book). If I just came across it somewhere I wouldn't really be able to tell if it was a good dive target or not.
I think you'll find the lower frequency "fishfinder" view much more useful for "locating" a wreck. What I was trying to convey above is that the high-frequency cone for the Down Imaging is so wide, that the image above will appear even if you are 50' off of the wreck. If you drop a shot line based on the down imaging (455/800 Khz), you'll spend your entire dive searching for the wreck. If you use the 200 Khz fishfinder to locate the wreck, you can position the shot within a few feet of the wreck.

See the attached image of the fishfinder looking down on the Wreck of the Dix. The nice tight cone of the 200 Khz fishfinder allowed me to drop the ROV right on top of the wreck in over 500' of water. The Down Imaging would have been hundreds of feet off at that depth.
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Dual Frequency Sonar of the Wreck of the Dix.
Dual Frequency Sonar of the Wreck of the Dix.
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pensacoladiver
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by pensacoladiver »

Matt,

Over the holidays, I took the plunge and put a Lowrance HDS-8 on the boat. My intention was to upgrade to the Side Scan for an additional $500ish later on. But as you stated, you are right... the standard sounder is just fine for diving.

I suppose if you were out "looking" for new wrecks all the time, the side scan would be worth it, but if you know where they are, it's nothing more than something to take cool pictures (in my opinion).

The thing I love about the HDS-8 is that you can cursor over a wreck on the sounder page and it will then give you a waypoint at that location on the map.

If you have ever used a GPS and a fishfinder seperately, you know that sometimes the wreck can be somewhat off from the GPS position. this allows you to nail it for next time. I don't need that much here with 100 foot of vis, but it would be a god send in the PNW vis.

My HDS-8 has 2 connectors on the back to disconnect for removal (3 if you network). They are easy to disconnect. Iwont leave my unit on the boat even though it is parked on the side of my house.

I will close with, whatever you buy, get the biggest screen you can afford and fit on the boat. Size does matter. If I did it again, I would probably buy the HDS-10.
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by Mattleycrue76 »

Man, the more research I do, the more confused I am. Thanks for all the great advice so far.
"The She-Ps didn't work for either one of us, however- we accidently glued one to Dan's cat, and the other one ended up in a DEA evidence locker somehow." - Joshua Smith
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by boydski »

Mattleycrue76 wrote:Man, the more research I do, the more confused I am.
Whatever you wind up buying will be obsolete in just a couple of years. Marine Electronics are becoming a lot like the Personal Computer markets. They should have a date on the back that says, "best if used by: month/day/year". :rofl:

A couple of additional thoughts:

To use the HDS structure scan, you'll have to mount two transducers on your transom ( photo here ). However, the fishfinder will work just fine out of the box with 83/200 Khz transducer. You can also add the data (temp, fuel used, trim, etc) from your outboard on the HDS screen with a NMEA adaptor cable (depending on the year and brand of your outboard).

Historically, the Humminbird units have had better waterproofing than the Lowrance units, which is why I thought it might be better fit for a RIB. The Sidescan/Downimaging on the Humminbird is all done from one transducer.
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by Mattleycrue76 »

boydski wrote:
Mattleycrue76 wrote:Man, the more research I do, the more confused I am.
Whatever you wind up buying will be obsolete in just a couple of years. Marine Electronics are becoming a lot like the Personal Computer markets. They should have a date on the back that says, "best if used by: month/day/year". :rofl:

A couple of additional thoughts:

To use the HDS structure scan, you'll have to mount two transducers on your transom ( photo here ). However, the fishfinder will work just fine out of the box with 83/200 Khz transducer. You can also add the data (temp, fuel used, trim, etc) from your outboard on the HDS screen with a NMEA adaptor cable (depending on the year and brand of your outboard).

Historically, the Humminbird units have had better waterproofing than the Lowrance units, which is why I thought it might be better fit for a RIB. The Sidescan/Downimaging on the Humminbird is all done from one transducer.
Ya I hear ya on the obsolete thing. That's why I'm having a hard time putting crazy mony into a unit for a 14 ft RIB in the name of "growing into it". The NMEA adaptor cable idea sounds cool, I wonder if it would work for my motor? (2003 yamaha F50)
"The She-Ps didn't work for either one of us, however- we accidently glued one to Dan's cat, and the other one ended up in a DEA evidence locker somehow." - Joshua Smith
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by boydski »

Mattleycrue76 wrote: The NMEA adaptor cable idea sounds cool, I wonder if it would work for my motor? (2003 yamaha F50)
It probably would not work. Yamaha started supporting NMEA 2000 with their 2005 motors. "Official" support was in 2006.
That's too bad as the fuel flow rate is very accurate coming from the engine(s) and the GPS can use the information to easily calculate Miles per Gallon on the fly.
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Mattleycrue76
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by Mattleycrue76 »

boydski wrote:
Mattleycrue76 wrote: The NMEA adaptor cable idea sounds cool, I wonder if it would work for my motor? (2003 yamaha F50)
It probably would not work. Yamaha started supporting NMEA 2000 with their 2005 motors. "Official" support was in 2006.
That's too bad as the fuel flow rate is very accurate coming from the engine(s) and the GPS can use the information to easily calculate Miles per Gallon on the fly.
Too bad. My motor pretty much sips fuel anyway though.
"The She-Ps didn't work for either one of us, however- we accidently glued one to Dan's cat, and the other one ended up in a DEA evidence locker somehow." - Joshua Smith
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by boydski »

Mattleycrue76 wrote: Too bad. My motor pretty much sips fuel anyway though.
That's about the ONLY thing that I miss about the old 50 HP Honda that I had on my RIB! :angelblue:
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by Mattleycrue76 »

boydski wrote:
Mattleycrue76 wrote: Too bad. My motor pretty much sips fuel anyway though.
That's about the ONLY thing that I miss about the old 50 HP Honda that I had on my RIB! :angelblue:
Well it's not the most powerful thing on the water but considering I paid less for the boat/motor/trailer package than a buddy of mine paid to have power brakes installed on his boat trailer I'm happy with it. I'm starting to realize that there is alot you can do with very little if you're resourceful when it comes to boating. The difference between what you can do with a cheap boat vs. no boat is huge. After that, each step up becomes exponetially more expensive. Having said that, if I win the lottery you'll be able to tell by that new 30ft Thunderjet I'll be rolling up in. :partydance:
"The She-Ps didn't work for either one of us, however- we accidently glued one to Dan's cat, and the other one ended up in a DEA evidence locker somehow." - Joshua Smith
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by boydski »

I agree completely! I also miss being able to launch my old 15' Polaris RIB anywhere, anytime! I even launched it on a few beaches, so it was much easier to launch, tow and recover than the 10,000 lbs. beast that I tow now. You can take your boat a LOT of places that I can't take mine.

Have you taken yours out to the War Hawk yet? The Port Gardiner Ramp is perfect for your boat!
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Mattleycrue76
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by Mattleycrue76 »

boydski wrote:Have you taken yours out to the War Hawk yet? The Port Gardiner Ramp is perfect for your boat!
Actually I was thinking about starting a thread in the dive planning section about that. Since I didn't get to dive there last year and everyone seemed to like the NWDC Flotilla thing I thought about maybe doing one again this year. The warhawk seemed to be good in that it's not current (read time) sensitive.
"The She-Ps didn't work for either one of us, however- we accidently glued one to Dan's cat, and the other one ended up in a DEA evidence locker somehow." - Joshua Smith
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by Mattleycrue76 »

Update: after a lot of research I decided to go big or go home (relatively speaking). I have a Lowrance HDS-7 with the insight map package and LSS1 on order. Should be here Thursday. I can't wait :supz:

By ordering them together the insight map package is essentially free, which means I won't have to spring for the navionics charts r(right away).

Although I'm usually not a warranty kind of guy I made the decision to purchase an extended warranty plan at the local dealer I ordered it from that promises on site service/replacement in the event of any issues should they arise. Hopefully that will compensate for any shortcomings in Lowrance's customer service. I'm stoked!
"The She-Ps didn't work for either one of us, however- we accidently glued one to Dan's cat, and the other one ended up in a DEA evidence locker somehow." - Joshua Smith
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by boydski »

Mattleycrue76 wrote:Update: after a lot of research I decided to go big or go home (relatively speaking). I have a Lowrance HDS-7 with the insight map package and LSS1 on order. Should be here Thursday.
Sweet!!!! You'll like your new HDS-7. One of my chartplotters is an HDS-7 and it works very well. Be sure to update it to the new version 4.0 HDS software and it should work very well for you. Congratulations!
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by pensacoladiver »

Matt, congrats. It is a bassa$$ machine. I am using the Insight software and have read quite a bit about the Navionics. there are many mixed feelings about whether the Navionics are worth the price and many, including me feel that Insight is plenty good enough.

If you do decide to spring for the Navionics, let me know how they work.

Also, I have my GPS file from the PNW still saved on my computer. If you want it, let me know. I will send it to you in the Lowrance database and all you gotta do is import it from an SD card onto the machine.

I spent a lot of time inputting all the local dive sites into the file.
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Mattleycrue76
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by Mattleycrue76 »

pensacoladiver wrote:Matt, congrats. It is a bassa$$ machine. I am using the Insight software and have read quite a bit about the Navionics. there are many mixed feelings about whether the Navionics are worth the price and many, including me feel that Insight is plenty good enough.

If you do decide to spring for the Navionics, let me know how they work.

Also, I have my GPS file from the PNW still saved on my computer. If you want it, let me know. I will send it to you in the Lowrance database and all you gotta do is import it from an SD card onto the machine.

I spent a lot of time inputting all the local dive sites into the file.
Heck Yeah! I'll take you up on that in a heartbeat.
"The She-Ps didn't work for either one of us, however- we accidently glued one to Dan's cat, and the other one ended up in a DEA evidence locker somehow." - Joshua Smith
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Re: Chartplotter/Fishfinder combos

Post by pensacoladiver »

Shoot me your email address where you want it sent to. It also has all my Pensacola and Ft Lauderdale spots on it... guess you gotta take the good with the bad. lol
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