BP/W Q's...

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airsix
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by airsix » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:24 am

My vote also goes to the simple single-piece harness. It was only hard to get into for the first couple of dives when the shoulder straps were too tight. Everybody seems to start out with them too tight. It's dead simple to don/doff after you've been using it for a few dives. It offers much less clutter up front. You don't have to hunt for your rings 'cuz they're the only thing up there. No hunting for your suit inflator because it isn't nested in a pile of buckles and straps. Also, in a few years when your harness is a bit ratty you can replace the webbing and essentially have a completely new harness for $10. One upgrade from the standard one-piece hard-webbing rig that I recommend is a soft sewn DSS crotch strap. It's more comfortable and won't wear on your suit like the hard resin-webbing type do. Hard webbing for the rest though.

-Ben
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kdupreez
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by kdupreez » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:05 pm

+1 on a single piece webbing harness. You can pick those up for super cheap and they are virtually indestructible.

Super simple, it works and will serve you no matter what agency or diving discipline you decide to go..

You can use it for single tank warm water diving, cold water double tank technical diving and cold water deep cave penetration diving..

And like Ben said, whenever the $10 webbing frays a bit or you decide to go for a different color, go to seattle fabric and pick your poison in color and style..
http://www.seattlefabrics.com/webbing.h ... lt_Webbing

Quite honestly, I would just get the hardware and buy a roll of webbing and weave your own from the get-go.. its a good learning experience and lots of fun plus its pretty satisfying to know you "made" your own basic dive gear!!

here is a good write up on rigging one.. (Just DONT do the crotch strap that way, nowadays its weaved into a cam slot and not bolted)
http://www.gasdiving.co.uk/pages/misc/kit/harness_2.htm

There are also some really cool tips on making the system easy to attach/detach weight pockets, etc. that I'd be happy to share.

The easiest option is to run out to a local dive shop that specializes in technical diving and them thread you a harness, size it up, show you all the right positioning, tricks, etc.

(PM me if you need some pointers to dive shops in your area that are reputable and that can help with that)

Koos
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LCF
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by LCF » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:19 pm

Colors are fun . . . I'm currently rewebbing my doubles harness in bright yellow. Color also makes you easier to spot and to identify underwater!
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renoun
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by renoun » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:25 pm

There are a variety of reasons one might choose to dive a BP/W. You might get some more tailored advice if you take some time to think about what is motivating you to change your gear configuration and post about it. If the BC you are currently diving really has 60lbs of lift I can imagine it is feeling ungainly and difficult to dive when correctly weighted, the 65lb bladder I started out with certainly didn't feel great. There are many reasons folks dive a BP/W, if you aren't choosing one for the same reasons your criteria may be different.
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no excuses
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by no excuses » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:54 pm

I have a seawolf harness and I ended up just using the pockets and building my own plain and simple harness getting rid of all the fancy bells and whistles. The weight holder inner pouches started falling apart after a couple of dives and I had to reingeneer and resew them completly. I love the design for getting rid of the weights while sitting in the water but the quality leaves a lot to be desired and I would not recommend this item.

stan

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lavachickie
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by lavachickie » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:10 pm

Can't say enough that research is one important element, but a test dive is another. I have used a friend's BC once that I HATED. I would have SWORN it was deficient in lift. HATED IT. Didn't feel secure, didn't feel like it had enough lift--and this was in a pool. Looking at the stats -- it was equal in lift to my own bc that I liked, and similar to the one I had my eye on that I REALLY liked.

You would never have known it, though. What's on paper and what you experience can be different.

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lizard0924
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by lizard0924 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:51 pm

LCF wrote:Colors are fun . . .


Lynn....I agree! I rewebbed mine in purple, just because I thought it was pretty. (Although I must admit to picking out my new wetsuit because it coordinated nicely with my harness color...LOL.)

But it definitely is easier to claim my gear quickly in the back of a Bonairean pickup truck filled with dive gear...and no dudes ever want to dive with my stuff. Weird.

Now I need to get some of Laura's cool tape so I can "specialize" my black fins...
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Jeff Pack
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by Jeff Pack » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:10 am

I wanted to revisit this topic.

I just got one of the DUI Weight and trims, and it seems like the combination of a weight integrated BCD and the DUI W&T, I'm rather long, and loose a little mobility in my legs (If I try and squat, I cant get all the way down, because the W&T pockets make me lose about that last 10-15% range of movement). Not much of a loss though.

So I'm perhaps considering I need to go to a BP&W. Or is the above just normal with that sort of setup?
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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nwbobber
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by nwbobber » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:23 am

I use a weight and trim and a bp/w, and I have never noticed this issue. Are your pockets too far forward? What is restricting your motion?
If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading - Lao Tzu

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Jeff Pack
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by Jeff Pack » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:08 am

The length of the Cumberbund/weight pockets on the integrated BCD, with length of the DUI, coupled together is rather long.

So its actually the belt of the W&T being abit lower, that slightly limits my legs upward movement.

Which is why I was thinking to go to a BP, as its only a 2in belt, which should give me an inch or 2 extra.

I just moved my DUI rig up abit, and its better, but until I throw tank and drysuit on, I dont know if it'll move my BCD too high.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Maxtrax
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by Maxtrax » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:01 am

I have a fairly short torso and have found that even with a BP/W setup if I position the W&T where DUI says to (top of the weight pockets even with the top of my hip crest) it impedes on my ability to squat and also on my sideways (hip flexor) extension for frog kicks. If I move it up to where it doesn't interfere with my leg mobility then it is smack dab under the waist webbing of my backplate. Of course, if you're not 5'8" with a short torso then a BP might be an appropriate solution for you.

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Linedog
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by Linedog » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:15 am

I have a weight integrated BC and a DUI W/T. I have a long torso and the W/T ended up all bunched up under my BC. So now the W/T is gathering dust in my garage because I don't feel like switching over to a BP/W. Why are you using both?
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Jeff Pack
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by Jeff Pack » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:19 am

The intent with the DUI, was two fold.

1> Take the weight off my lower back.
2> Make that initial load of all that weight into 2 steps, weight, then tank/BC.

So instead of hitting myself with 80pds, I get it in 2 40 pd increments. Plus spread the weight across my body more, than just lower back.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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ArcticDiver
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by ArcticDiver » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:13 pm

Jeff Pack wrote:I wanted to revisit this topic.

I just got one of the DUI Weight and trims, and it seems like the combination of a weight integrated BCD and the DUI W&T, I'm rather long, and loose a little mobility in my legs (If I try and squat, I cant get all the way down, because the W&T pockets make me lose about that last 10-15% range of movement). Not much of a loss though.

So I'm perhaps considering I need to go to a BP&W. Or is the above just normal with that sort of setup?


I too have a long torso and discovered the same thing. Weight Integration and the DUI Weight Harness are mutually exclusive for me. Once I went exclusively to the BP/W and DUI no more problems. I followed the same logic as you in buying the DUI. You just need to finish the transition by adding the BP/W.

For cold water I used a SS BP and for warm an AL BP. The DUI worked for both. But my weight need for an AL80 in warm water became so little that I just started threading a weight on my waist belt or on one of the tank straps.

Try it. Bet you like it.
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Joshua Smith
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Re: Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by Joshua Smith » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:30 pm

ArcticDiver wrote:
Jeff Pack wrote:I wanted to revisit this topic.

I just got one of the DUI Weight and trims, and it seems like the combination of a weight integrated BCD and the DUI W&T, I'm rather long, and loose a little mobility in my legs (If I try and squat, I cant get all the way down, because the W&T pockets make me lose about that last 10-15% range of movement). Not much of a loss though.

So I'm perhaps considering I need to go to a BP&W. Or is the above just normal with that sort of setup?


I too have a long torso and discovered the same thing. Weight Integration and the DUI Weight Harness are mutually exclusive for me. Once I went exclusively to the BP/W and DUI no more problems. I followed the same logic as you in buying the DUI. You just need to finish the transition by adding the BP/W.

For cold water I used a SS BP and for warm an AL BP. The DUI worked for both. But my weight need for an AL80 in warm water became so little that I just started threading a weight on my waist belt or on one of the tank straps.

Try it. Bet you like it.

Yep. Also, its called a weight and TRIM because you can adjust where the weight sits- up and down, as well as front to back. If the weights are too low, you can raise them.....but pay attention to what it does in the water.
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BP/W Q's...

Post by spatman » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:57 pm

Joshua Smith wrote:Yep. Also, its called a weight and TRIM because you can adjust where the weight sits- up and down, as well as front to back.


Last I looked, there are 2 models of the Weight and Trim: the "Classic" and the "II". I bought the II first and found that the only adjustment available was the length of the shoulder straps, which are relatively narrow and taper from back to front..

The Classic is constructed from your standard 2" webbing and allows you to also adjust the position of the weight pockets forward/back, as Josh mentions.
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BP/W Q's...

Post by spatman » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:01 pm

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Dashrynn
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by Dashrynn » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:19 pm

I've used the weight and trim and disliked it. My torso is short/average so my flexibility was limited. I got rid of the weight and trim before I left and switched back to weight belt and distributed the weight. Made me wish I hadn't wasted my money.

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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by CaptnJack » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:20 pm

DUI's weight and trim won't work on any boat (like mine) where you need to ditch all your gear in the water to reboard. You can't take it off unless you ditch your BC (or BP/W) first. A heavier than normal plate or a chunk of intergrated lead (on a cam band) + conventional weight belt is far more versatile.
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Jeff Pack
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by Jeff Pack » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:52 pm

sure you can take it off, the weights are ditchable. Its just a pain to rethread it in a rocking boat.

To get into a boat, you grab each pocket ditch cord, ditch, and hand the weight pocket up.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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CaptnJack
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by CaptnJack » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:01 pm

Jeff Pack wrote:sure you can take it off, the weights are ditchable. Its just a pain to rethread it in a rocking boat.

To get into a boat, you grab each pocket ditch cord, ditch, and hand the weight pocket up.


Does not work well in reality. Really, I have seen at least 6 different people screw with taking these things off but not "ditching" them because they are a pain. Put some of your lead on your cam bands and a slightly smaller weightbelt is vastly more workable. I have been diving off small boats since 2000, maybe 700 SIB/RIB dives. Really, the DUI weight and trim things are a huge hassle for their users in this situation.
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Jeff Pack
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by Jeff Pack » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:56 am

Guess that means I should keep my weight integrated BC, thx.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Jeff Pack
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by Jeff Pack » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:16 am

So if you have all your weight in the BC (integrated), is that ok for a boat dive, or do I need to consider a weight belt as well?
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Nwbrewer
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by Nwbrewer » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:58 am

Jeff Pack wrote:So if you have all your weight in the BC (integrated), is that ok for a boat dive, or do I need to consider a weight belt as well?


As long as -
1. Your BC will float all the weight
2. You can lift it into the boat.

There's no issue.
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CaptnJack
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Re: BP/W Q's...

Post by CaptnJack » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:07 am

Nwbrewer wrote:
Jeff Pack wrote:So if you have all your weight in the BC (integrated), is that ok for a boat dive, or do I need to consider a weight belt as well?


As long as -
1. Your BC will float all the weight
2. You can lift it into the boat.

There's no issue.


This works. Anything where you can remove the lead before removing the buoyancy is best on my boat (and many others). Have a problem whatever, hand up removable weight pouches or the whole belt. You can pull the rip cord on the DUI weight and trim sure. BUT its such a pain to rethread it for dive 2 that divers are loath to actually do it. And there are no handles on the pounches themselves to grab onto. So people go through various awkward contortions to avoid that. I generally have them ditch their BC in the water while holding onto the side of the boat. Then hold a shoulder strap on the weight and trim while they slip out of it. Not really that safe honestly because if they lose hold of the boat they are sinking to the bottom. I am not sure why people like the weight and trims anyway, the lead is still around your waist hyperextending your back. And on dry land its now hanging off your shoulders instead of on your hips where it belongs. Seems like an expensive solution to a non-problem to me but I am willing to listen to what they achieve for others.
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