And boom goes the scooter dynamite. (TBM)

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:18 pm

For all you soon to be owners and current owners who want to say Y scooter is better than Z scooter.

http://tahoebenchmark.com/pdfs/2011/Bin ... 011v30.pdf

fishb0y · Post by **fishb0y** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:14 pm

I've been looking forward to this coming out...

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:12 pm

This is like getting your pickup lifted or your el camino lowered...

ljjames · Post by **ljjames** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:13 am

CaptnJack wrote:This is like getting your pickup lifted or your el camino lowered...

pretty much

Geek · Post by **Geek** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:03 am

Wow, it looks like John's project has come a long way.. they didn't mention the magnetic coupling specifically or did I miss it?

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:24 pm

Geek wrote:Wow, it looks like John's project has come a long way.. they didn't mention the magnetic coupling specifically or did I miss it?

Only place i have read of a magnetic coupler is on the dive matrix. I think his website too but haven't been there in awhile. His scooter is incredibly efficient though, look at the wattage pull on cruise vs others. Could it be he thermal management on motor heat increases efficiency?

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:51 pm

Dashrynn wrote:
Geek wrote:Wow, it looks like John's project has come a long way.. they didn't mention the magnetic coupling specifically or did I miss it?
Only place i have read of a magnetic coupler is on the dive matrix. I think his website too but haven't been there in awhile. His scooter is incredibly efficient though, look at the wattage pull on cruise vs others. Could it be he thermal management on motor heat increases efficiency?

Its ~68V lowering the current draw to get those watts, which lowers heat production. Lower heat of conductors/wire in general does increase efficiency but within normal day to day type use ranges not by all that much ~10-15% ish.

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:22 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
Dashrynn wrote:
Geek wrote:Wow, it looks like John's project has come a long way.. they didn't mention the magnetic coupling specifically or did I miss it?
Only place i have read of a magnetic coupler is on the dive matrix. I think his website too but haven't been there in awhile. His scooter is incredibly efficient though, look at the wattage pull on cruise vs others. Could it be he thermal management on motor heat increases efficiency?
Its ~68V lowering the current draw to get those watts, which lowers heat production. Lower heat of conductors/wire in general does increase efficiency but within normal day to day type use ranges not by all that much ~10-15% ish.

Yeah 15% seems to be the difference in the cuda and his motor. But 15% can mean a mile or so with a high wattage battery. I had forgotten higher voltage-lower amperage equaled cooler motor. How does he keeps his so light though? Lithium batteries? Besides the handle, I'm impressed by his engineering. His knowledge and experience from ROVs directly reflect his work.

Geek · Post by **Geek** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:32 pm

Yeah, I thought the handle was kind of the hookie part of the system, seems like he could have engineered something better

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:42 pm

Dashrynn wrote:But 15% can mean a mile or so with a high wattage battery.

Yes but so what? Are you going to try and get him to make you one? Don't forget you'll get tired and have to swap out drivers to maintain this theoretical advantage long before you run out of battery.

pensacoladiver · Post by **pensacoladiver** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:19 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
Dashrynn wrote:But 15% can mean a mile or so with a high wattage battery.
Yes but so what? Are you going to try and get him to make you one? Don't forget you'll get tired and have to swap out drivers to maintain this theoretical advantage long before you run out of battery.

Hey man, down here in Florida where we do 4 tank boat dives, we need all the battery power we can get.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:55 pm

pensacoladiver wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:
Dashrynn wrote:But 15% can mean a mile or so with a high wattage battery.
Yes but so what? Are you going to try and get him to make you one? Don't forget you'll get tired and have to swap out drivers to maintain this theoretical advantage long before you run out of battery.
Hey man, down here in Florida where we do 4 tank boat dives, we need all the battery power we can get.

I

in your general direction

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:58 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
Dashrynn wrote:But 15% can mean a mile or so with a high wattage battery.
Yes but so what? Are you going to try and get him to make you one? Don't forget you'll get tired and have to swap out drivers to maintain this theoretical advantage long before you run out of battery.

No I have my own rebuild in process that will be more than enough for a long day of diving. I'm just admiring his work, and the results(where it seemed it was total bs)

Oh and sometimes that extra mile can get you home instead of your buddy towing you back :P considering 1mile at 150fpm is 35 extra minutes of run time.

wcricple · Post by **wcricple** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:15 pm

"No I have my own rebuild in process that will be more than enough for a long day of diving. "

Interested in what type of battery you are building?
Anyone using LIpo4 batteries?

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:34 pm

wcricple wrote:"No I have my own rebuild in process that will be more than enough for a long day of diving. "

Interested in what type of battery you are building?
Anyone using LIpo4 batteries?

There's a guy using lifepo4 batteries in a gavin. I'm using liion batteries, nothing too big, just 900 watts.

Geek · Post by **Geek** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:02 pm

Dash? With high energy batteries? Soldering? *shudder*

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:12 pm

Geek wrote:Dash? With high energy batteries? Soldering? *shudder*

i've already built and tested 2 li-ion battery packs

I'm running out of equipment to build new batteries for.

cofford · Post by **cofford** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:15 pm

I've got LiFePO4 batteries in my Gavin. They've been fantastic so far.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:21 pm

Dashrynn wrote:Oh and sometimes that extra mile can get you home instead of your buddy towing you back :P considering 1mile at 150fpm is 35 extra minutes of run time.

Then build one for Bdub please!

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:38 am

CaptnJack wrote:
Dashrynn wrote:Oh and sometimes that extra mile can get you home instead of your buddy towing you back :P considering 1mile at 150fpm is 35 extra minutes of run time.
Then build one for Bdub please!

Lol I was gonna build one for a sierra diver down here in Florida but he decided to buy an ss. I just sourced some new 3.1 amp Panasonic lithium cells which have 2.9 watts more energy per cell than in the sierra fury. I'm kicking myself in the ass for not finding this before!

Raydar · Post by **Raydar** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:23 pm

The below is only my personal belief and does not reflect the views or opinions of my employer.

Some surprising data, some not so surprising.

I do like his comment/editorial regarding the 'arms race'.

I'd love to see divers get away from this emphasis on top speed. Top speed is a bragging point, but it's hard on the machine, the diver, and it costs money. This wouldn't be a problem, except divers are wusses and cheap to boot.

It would be great if we could concentrate more towards efficiency at higher speeds. Make the new cruise speed 200 fpm instead of 150 fpm.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of scooter drivers look at the top speed as the end-all/be-all of scooter performance. The Cuda, Genesis, and Magnus are all in the upper 200 fpm range. Gonna let you in on a secret though. It's not fun to ride a scooter at those speeds for more than a couple minutes.

Personally, I rarely go above speed 5 on the Cuda. Prolongs battery life, dive length, and I don't come out of the water with my nads up near my belly button.

Bottom line, scooter efficiency is the key. Efficient scooters are smaller, lighter, and cheaper. And smaller, lighter, and cheaper is what divers are/should be asking for.

Yes, you might then have a scooter that tops out at 200 fpm, but it can do it for hours.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:27 pm

Raydar wrote:Personally, I rarely go above speed 5 on the Cuda. Prolongs battery life, dive length, and I don't come out of the water with my nads up near my belly button.

They must be those special lightweight ones intead of the heavy duty brass ones huh?

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:00 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
Raydar wrote:Personally, I rarely go above speed 5 on the Cuda. Prolongs battery life, dive length, and I don't come out of the water with my nads up near my belly button.
They must be those special lightweight ones intead of the heavy duty brass ones huh?

I agree totally with ray, endurance over speed within a reasonable speed. I feel like a castrated monkey on a unicycle when riding full speed on any scooter.

BDub · Post by **BDub** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:05 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
Dashrynn wrote:Oh and sometimes that extra mile can get you home instead of your buddy towing you back :P considering 1mile at 150fpm is 35 extra minutes of run time.
Then build one for Bdub please!

Oh puh-leeze :queenliz:

It was just shy of 30 minutes

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:06 pm

BDub wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:
Dashrynn wrote:Oh and sometimes that extra mile can get you home instead of your buddy towing you back :P considering 1mile at 150fpm is 35 extra minutes of run time.
Then build one for Bdub please!
Oh puh-leeze :queenliz:

It was just shy of 30 minutes

Which time?

Northwest Dive Club