New Undergarments

[LCF]

I have the DC Extreme + and I use it for diving caves in Florida . . . (69 degrees).

[Norris]

I don't dive a weezle but I have dived with many that have them. I have witnessed numerous times a weezle owner coming out after a leak/flood all smiley about how warm they were and that they barely even knew they were wet. So I was a little shocked by that comment too....

random monkey

[Penopolypants]

Love my weezle extreme +, even more than my subxero. And it holds up in the washing machine, which was important to me, being a person who is either freezing cold or blazing hot (and therefore sweaty), and whose suit has been known to spring a leak or two.

[BillZ]

I have both the 4th Element Artic and the DC TPS Extreme and the 4th Element is by far warmer than the DC undergarment.

[KaizerWilhelm]

Clearly I shouldn't leave Weezle out the next time I am considering an undergarment, there are too many fans out there.

So, Weezle fans, how does the UG keep it's warmth? Loft or does it keep you warm without loft like thinsulate?

[Jeremy]

I heard weasles, because they are so poofy, can get stuck in your dry suit vent and lead to an uncontrollable ascent.

[Penopolypants]

I heard weasles, because they are so poofy, can get stuck in your dry suit vent and lead to an uncontrollable ascent.

Nonsense. That's one of those rumors that a lot of people have heard, but can't name anyone that it's happened to, because it doesn't happen.

[John Rawlings]

Clearly I shouldn't leave Weezle out the next time I am considering an undergarment, there are too many fans out there.

So, Weezle fans, how does the UG keep it's warmth? Loft or does it keep you warm without loft like thinsulate?

Here's a link that should specifically answer those questions: http://www.weezle.co.uk/info/suit_information.htm

There are many worthwhile undergarments out there in the diving world. I have been diving with Weezles for years and consider them to be the best. From this thread and others, it is clear that I am not alone in my thinking...

- John

[Tom Nic]

I heard weasles, because they are so poofy, can get stuck in your dry suit vent and lead to an uncontrollable ascent.

Nonsense. That's one of those rumors that a lot of people have heard, but can't name anyone that it's happened to, because it doesn't happen.

When I wear my USIA undergarment instead of my old fleece undergarment my suit vents a hair slower... at least I can tell the difference. Fleece turns loose of the air quickly. It is the same when I wear my Weezle, but the difference is negligible, certainly not enough to "lead to an uncontrollable ascent".

Like John said, there are a great many worthwhile undergarments out there, and not everyone needs to dive a Weezle!

But.... It is interesting to me the many seeming "apocryphal" stories that pop up from time to time... I've traced most of them back to dive shop employees that are trying to sell the brand they carry, then someone asks them about a Weezle and they trot out the latest recycled rumor. I've experienced this myself... more than once - and not just in regard to Weezle's but other kinds of equipment. Dive shop doesn't carry brand X and runs it down when you ask about it. Then they start carrying brand x and all of a sudden it's the greatest things since sliced bread.

Kind of sad really. Tell me how great your product and your shop is. Stop running down other people's equipment and shops. Your credibility goes downhill - even if you are correct. Bad taste and bad form....

I mean, after all, I wouldn't want to get stuck in an uncontrollable ascent because of an undergarment, or get cold when my crappy old dry suit leaks, after all. Can't be too careful!

[CaptnJack]

Loft or does it keep you warm without loft like thinsulate?

There's no such thing as warm without loft.

There are 3 ways of transferring heat:
convention
conduction
radiation

Convention = the movement of a fluid either gas or liquid carrying heat from a warm surface to a cold one.
Conduction = the transfer of heat via contact between the hot and cold surface
Radiation = emission of heat as elctromagnetic radiation

Radiation you can't do anything about although certain undergarments have used aluminum and/or titanium foils in the past to try and convince you they are reflecting heat back at you. Reality is that its very hard to alter this with clothing.

Conduction is hindered by maintaining a barrier between your skin and the outer suit. The further apart and the lower the heat transfer of the barrier material the more effective it is. A spacer if you will. Good space = good insulation from a conduction perspective. The best "space" is a vacuum (no gas at all) as there's nothing to transfer the heat. Its how a thermos works.

While conduction would be minimal, convection is worst in a mere open (gas filled) spacer. The fibers of whatever you are wearing need to minimize the circulation of your insulating gas.

In my experience the weezle is more crushable than thinsulate. So if you allow your suit to run at minimal gas you will be colder. The thinsulate has stiffer fibers which don't want to crush as much. So if you completely vent your suit you will have more residual gas in there with the thinsulates. So while it might appear that the thinsulate is "warm without loft" the reality is that you just don't notice the boundary layer of suit gas since the outer shell is fitting snugly. Whereas with the weezle you need to add gas to loft up the undergarment more. Unfortunately I think the stiffer thinsulate fibers break down pretty fast compared to the softer weezle fibers. At least my 400gm thinsulate was not warm after a season and I am on my 3rd weezle season with little noticable degradation.

[CaptnJack]

I heard weasles, because they are so poofy, can get stuck in your dry suit vent and lead to an uncontrollable ascent.

Nonsense. That's one of those rumors that a lot of people have heard, but can't name anyone that it's happened to, because it doesn't happen.

Supposedly happened to Garrett Weinberg but he never really articulated his suit problem before he died. And his buddy Claudia couldn't figure out his issue either. That was in 2002 (?) and nobody's heard of the issue since. So after 10s of thousands of dives in Weezles around the PNW interacting with countless suit valves since I think its pretty much a bogus theory.

[kdupreez]

I heard weasles, because they are so poofy, can get stuck in your dry suit vent and lead to an uncontrollable ascent.

I heard the same rumors and even heard a rumor about a diver injury because of this.. its all hearsay..

I posed that very same question to Weezle and this is an email from the horses mouth in the UK..

Hi Koos,

I am afraid like most myths, there is absolutely no truth but also no way of finding out where it began, my suspicion is it originates with our competitors.... Had there been an incident such as you have has suggested, Weezle would have been contacted by the diver, his family or the investigating authorities at the very least & sued at the worst case, neither of which has happened & I can I hope, with this news allay your fears, if not the Chinese whispers.

It is strange that this keeps raising it's head but it never comes to us 1st hand as a complaint that it has blocked a divers valve, leading to any incident, I am pleased to say and it is odd that it is always the suit (and we are not now the only manufacturer to use this method of construction or type of exterior shell) & it seems never to be the valve that is considered to have been at fault??
Thanks for supporting Weezle & our products but apart from assuring you that we have never been contacted by anyone about the supposed incident, I can not give firm evidence as there is none, do you know who was supposed to be involved, maybe I can find out what did actually happen?
Kind regards & Happy New Year

Hilary

Weezle Diving Services,
66 Aire View,
Silsden
West Yorkshire
BD20 0AN UK

Telephone: +44 (0) 1535.655380
Fax: +44 (0) 1535.657356
e-mail: sales@weezle-diving.com
web site: http://www.weezle.co.uk