Cuda Alternatives???

scubnewb · Post by **scubnewb** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:35 am

Not ready to shell out $$$$$$$ for a cuda right now but what are some other alternatives?

kdupreez · Post by **kdupreez** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:05 am

DiveX is up in Mukilteo, and its hard to beat their customer service.. So you could look into getting a DiveX Sierra? I know tons of people who dive them and they are great!

That said, some alternatives to DiveX are:

Gavin
Halcyon
Hollis
Suexo
Silent Submersion

Out of all these, your least expensive, most reliable and DIY serviceable option for the cost, would probably be a Gavin. They are big heavy scoots that run on lead acid batteries, but cant beat their return vs. cost

For used smaller scooters like Sierra, Gavin short-body, Halcyon T14 and SS N19, a pretty good price would be around $1,500 to $1,800

but dont look at pure cost initially, think about servicing, parts, etc.. long term ownership cost.

Also, ask around, there are TONS of scooters around and people are usually more than happy to let others try/dive them to find the one that works for you.

If you want to try my Cuda, I'd be happy to.. I would also be able to hook you up with divers that own a Sierra, Gavin shortbody and maybe a T14 as well if you want to look at them.

Koos

scubnewb · Post by **scubnewb** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:33 am

Thanks I will start reading up on them, not looking to buy till summer (unless a killer deal shows up, Im such a impulse buyer) but was just looking for some leads. Gonna have to mosdef try some out before I drop half if not a whole house payment on one lol...

BASSMAN · Post by **BASSMAN** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:13 am

As Low As: $171.99
•Dive propulsion vehicle designed for scuba divers, snorkelers, and water enthusiasts
•Propels user at speeds of up to 2.5 miles per hour; rated for depths of 100 feet
•Waterproof circuitry protects internal electronics from accidental flooding
•Run time of 2 hours per charge with normal use; adjustable buoyancy control
•Measures 23.5 x 14.6 x 12.2 inches (W x H x D); weighs 18 pounds

: Why not? 100 feet and 2 hours of burn time?

?; Sea Doo GTI Scooter.jpg (11.21 KiB) Viewed 2189 times

http://www.nobetterdeal.com/shop/Produc ... QgodbR2Pig

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:22 am

There's a factory rebuilt Sierra at Dive Xtras for 2650$

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:34 am

just found a gavin on CL,, email sent to the guy.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:31 am

Ray might say otherwise, but you don't need a Cuda. What are your buddies using? Maybe borrow one of their's first.

kdupreez · Post by **kdupreez** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:56 am

Jeff Pack wrote:just found a gavin on CL,, email sent to the guy.

I'd offer the guy $1400 and settle for like $1,500 max..

Thats a 26ah short body and if you can get someone to make you a NiMh or Lithium battery pack (like cofford), you have a pretty cool scooter that will run for long hours.

You could also ping Mark over at 5thD.. There probably not a Gavin in town that he has not either seen personally or know the history of..

limeyx · Post by **limeyx** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:01 am

scubnewb wrote:Not ready to shell out $$$$$$$ for a cuda right now but what are some other alternatives?

Used Cuda ?

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:23 am

kdupreez wrote: Thats a 26ah short body and if you can get someone to make you a NiMh or Lithium battery pack (like cofford), you have a pretty cool scooter that will run for long hours.

~30mins continuous max. Although you can upgrade the brushes. Stuff starts to melt back there without a cool down period although most people don't scooter continuously anyway. Once Rodney really got on the NiMH bandwagon with SS's the old SLAs tanked in value big time. So yeah $1500 if it looks very good in the motor compartment. I couldn't imagine wrestling a 68lb scooter into my boat now...

kdupreez · Post by **kdupreez** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:26 am

BASSMAN wrote:As Low As: $171.99
•Dive propulsion vehicle designed for scuba divers, snorkelers, and water enthusiasts playing in the pool..
•Propels user at speeds of up to 2.5 miles hour day; rated for depths of 100 feet
•Waterproof circuitry protects internal electronics from accidental flooding
•Run time of 2 hours 25 minutes per charge with normal use; adjustable buoyancy control
•Measures 23.5 x 14.6 x 12.2 inches (W x H x D); weighs 18 pounds

Sea Doo GTI Scooter.jpg

Fixed that for ya

And there is NO ways in hell this thing will pull a diver at 220 feet per minute for 120 minutes!

At the Tahoe benchmark this year, this specific scooter was tested for shits and giggles and it did a whopping 97 ft feet per minute (1 mile per hour).. for an astounding 30 minutes before it gave up..

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:28 am

I have scooted one of these before and it lasted well over 30 minutes. Would love to see the stats on this test you are talking about about.
Mind you not something I would invest in, but if someone wants a little underwater fun for a small fraction of what a big boy scooter costs, I didnt think it was too bad.
Link?

kdupreez · Post by **kdupreez** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:29 am

BTW - speaking of Tahoe..

This is a GREAT resource for scooters and scooter performance..

http://www.tahoebenchmark.com/2011.htm

EDIT: (Norris, these were the benchmark tests)

K

camerone · Post by **camerone** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:37 am

kdupreez wrote:BTW - speaking of Tahoe..

This is a GREAT resource for scooters and scooter performance..

http://www.tahoebenchmark.com/2011.htm

EDIT: (Norris, these were the benchmark tests)

K

+1. This is the only public data I know of that attempts to run repeatable, somewhat scientific studies against all the major scooters out there so you can compare apples to apples.

If you're really going to buy a scooter, you should also read the previous results from the 2008 and 2009 tests. Some manufacturers haven't changed models, so they didn't re-run some of the scooters in 2011.

You're going to laugh at the pool-toy results, too. There's no way in hell the Sea Doo or any of their ilk could ever meet the perf specs they claim...even downstream in a heavy current...

-c

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:03 am

Let me add that I also feel that their claims are a little far fetched, and I also dont think they would compare in any way shape or form to the big boy scooters. I was just saying that I have scooted one of these to 85 90 fsw for about 50 minutes with no loss of power and it was pretty fun. So for 180.00 as opposed to the price tag on the major scooters, I can attest that it was fun and maybe not quite as lame as K is claiming.

There ARE options if you just want to play around with some propulsion devices and you dont have to spend a butt load of money. 180.00 even for something you use occasionally for fun, is a pretty minimal investment. Just a thought.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:14 am

The pool toys are fine if you're alone (and going for a short shallow dive). If you show up with that for a dive with me, I might as well swim. If you show up with that and a buddy has a Cuda or a Magnus, expect them to prefer to tow you than wait around.

There are still old Makos (and Teknas) around. Batteries are cheap and rewound they were as fast or faster than a Gavin. But the plastic shell left alot to be desired. Ditto the Apollos, those were actually pretty damn fast for only a 12V battery, but didn't last more than 35mins or so.

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:19 am

I'll probably look at the Sierra, as I didnt realize the Gavin was SLA, that weight would make my herinated disk scream.

Plus, by the time I upgraded to LiPo, I'd be almost at the Sierra by then.

kdupreez · Post by **kdupreez** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:20 am

Norris wrote: There ARE options if you just want to play around with some propulsion devices and you dont have to spend a butt load of money. 180.00 even for something you use occasionally for fun, is a pretty minimal investment. Just a thought.

I'm sure you can have a LOT of fun with those toys and SeaDoo sells a lot of them.. but im also fairly sure its NOT the kind of scooter the OP had in mind here. (unless I misinterpreted his question about Cuda alternatives)

the SeaDoo is a toy that you can have some serious fun with and mostly aimed at a tropical setting where there is less drag and more hospitable environments..

A real DPV on the other hand is designed and built as a diving tool to get you places and let you do dives that you otherwise wont be able to do... To get you from point A to a good distance away at point B and back.. And do so reliably and safely with enough power and endurance to even get 2 divers there and back. that and you have arm-ripping speed for some serious fun!!

Case in point, I bet you had a lot of fun on the seadoo, but I also bet you that you wont be able to go out to The Alki fishing reef and back with it.. I also wont bet on the seadoo to help me fight against currents on certain dives.. (one of the reasons we require a scooter on certain dives)

a toy versus a tool..

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:30 am

Jeff Pack wrote:I'll probably look at the Sierra, as I didnt realize the Gavin was SLA, that weight would make my herinated disk scream.

Plus, by the time I upgraded to LiPo, I'd be almost at the Sierra by then.

There's no need to upgrade a short Gavin to LiPo. With new SLAs a short gavin is a ~70min scooter.

The Sierra is the lightest "real" scooter at about 38lbs. The SS N-19 is slightly heavier with slightly more burntime.

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:07 am

kdupreez wrote:
Norris wrote: There ARE options if you just want to play around with some propulsion devices and you dont have to spend a butt load of money. 180.00 even for something you use occasionally for fun, is a pretty minimal investment. Just a thought.
I'm sure you can have a LOT of fun with those toys and SeaDoo sells a lot of them.. but im also fairly sure its NOT the kind of scooter the OP had in mind here. (unless I misinterpreted his question about Cuda alternatives)

the SeaDoo is a toy that you can have some serious fun with and mostly aimed at a tropical setting where there is less drag and more hospitable environments..

A real DPV on the other hand is designed and built as a diving tool to get you places and let you do dives that you otherwise wont be able to do... To get you from point A to a good distance away at point B and back.. And do so reliably and safely with enough power and endurance to even get 2 divers there and back. that and you have arm-ripping speed for some serious fun!!

Case in point, I bet you had a lot of fun on the seadoo, but I also bet you that you wont be able to go out to The Alki fishing reef and back with it.. I also wont bet on the seadoo to help me fight against currents on certain dives.. (one of the reasons we require a scooter on certain dives)

a toy versus a tool..

With all due respect,

I think I clearly stated that the Seadoo toy was fun and nothing else. I also stated that when I used it, I had a 50 minute burn time with power to spare, which opposed your 30 minute claim. So while your statements are all true please dont direct them towards me as though I said otherwise.
Simply put, the Sea Doo toys are fun. Do they compare to the big boy scooters? No. Would I love to see the faces of the other Cuda and X users when you show up to a scooter dive with one, YES.
In closing, I was more responding to your post which laughed at the Sea Doo than I was the Ops original question. I didnt think it was fair considering I had a contrasting experience to your benchmark.

Love,
Rick

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:16 am

NWDC Dont Rule #7

Dont argue scooters. The ball crushing causes "issues"

kdupreez · Post by **kdupreez** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:22 am

Norris wrote:Simply put, the Sea Doo toys are fun.

I'm sure they are. never said they're not..

Norris wrote:No. Would I love to see the faces of the other Cuda and X users when you show up to a scooter dive with one, YES.

Cool, anytime you are up for a dive, I would grab any chance to break out the dive crack and go zoom~

Norris wrote:I didnt think it was fair considering I had a contrasting experience to your benchmark.

I dont think its fair to compare your pleasure dive experience to a benchmark. Toy vs. a Tool.. The benchmark clearly separates the two

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:23 am

Jeff Pack wrote:Jeff Pack Dont Rule #7

Dont argue scooters. The ball crushing causes "issues"

Fixed that for you.

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:26 am

kdupreez wrote:
Norris wrote:Simply put, the Sea Doo toys are fun.
I'm sure they are. never said they're not..

Norris wrote:No. Would I love to see the faces of the other Cuda and X users when you show up to a scooter dive with one, YES.
Cool, anytime you are up for a dive, I would grab any chance to break out the dive crack and go zoom~

Norris wrote:I didnt think it was fair considering I had a contrasting experience to your benchmark.
I dont think its fair to compare your pleasure dive experience to a benchmark. Toy vs. a Tool.. The benchmark clearly separates the two

*facepalm

I concede

defied · Post by **defied** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:28 am

Norris wrote: *facepalm

I concede

Quitter.

Northwest Dive Club