Got called an idiot for selling my pony!

Linedog · Post by **Linedog** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:11 pm

I never use my pony bottle so it was time to transfer it to someone who wants it. I go get it VISed before I hand it off, and the manager, an employee of the LDS, and a lady who is some mucky muck for DUI all ask what am I gonna do when I run outa air! I promptly reply "die", they all agree that I understand the gravity of my stupid mistake. The conversation got a touch heated as the terms "idiot" and "big mistake" we're thrown about. Most of the people I dive with use HP100's and smaller, a few also use a 19cf pony. I dive a HP130, giving me more back gas than both of there tanks combined. The one time I was on a dive where a diver went OOA, a pony would not have changed it, it would only have been helpful in case a buddie diver had not been close by. A diver was close by and no one was injured.
Does any agency advocate or train the use of a pony bottle? Now I'm talking for recreation, not tec diving where the use of deco tanks are needed or those rebreather things.
I look at my diving as solo with buddies, I am responsible for myself, I however am also prepared to help my buddy. Using proper gas management and monitoring I don't see the need for a pony, yes a reg could have an issue but with today's technology how often does it really happen?
Pony or not is the question?

H20doctor · Post by **H20doctor** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:33 pm

I dont use a pony.. Never have.. Been diving since 2000.. So that makes me an idiot with you.. I think you should just let it go and worry about bigger issues in life.. People are cruel, and have opinions, and stuff..i will dive with you..

Linedog · Post by **Linedog** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:39 pm

Thanks Doc, my first dive was in 1999, we will dive sometime.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:40 pm

My buddy is my pony.

Besides, why carry a heavy pony when you can just pack a Spare Air?

diverden · Post by **diverden** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:21 pm

Personally, I get warm fuzzies from packing some kind of redundant breathing system (usually dive twins) except when diving on an island in warm clear water. In that case, I dive conservatively with ample reserve and am mentally prepared to ESA at any point in the dive.

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:21 pm

Personally, I won't dive without one but no your not an idiot. It's your choice to make not theirs. Having said that though using the premis that you have never needed it is a bit flakey. I have never needed a safety belt but I always wear one. I have never needed a helmet when ridding but you would be crazy mot to wear one. It is better to have and never need than to need and not have.

Jeff Pack · Post by **Jeff Pack** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:48 pm

I have a pony bottle, and never carry it, guess I'm a worse idiot.

We never carried pony bottles when I was a SEAL, so we were idiots too then.

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:25 pm

Linedog wrote:I never use my pony bottle so it was time to transfer it to someone who wants it. I go get it VISed before I hand it off, and the manager, an employee of the LDS, and a lady who is some mucky muck for DUI all ask what am I gonna do when I run outa air! I promptly reply "die", they all agree that I understand the gravity of my stupid mistake. The conversation got a touch heated as the terms "idiot" and "big mistake" we're thrown about. Most of the people I dive with use HP100's and smaller, a few also use a 19cf pony. I dive a HP130, giving me more back gas than both of there tanks combined. The one time I was on a dive where a diver went OOA, a pony would not have changed it, it would only have been helpful in case a buddie diver had not been close by. A diver was close by and no one was injured.
Does any agency advocate or train the use of a pony bottle? Now I'm talking for recreation, not tec diving where the use of deco tanks are needed or those rebreather things.
I look at my diving as solo with buddies, I am responsible for myself, I however am also prepared to help my buddy. Using proper gas management and monitoring I don't see the need for a pony, yes a reg could have an issue but with today's technology how often does it really happen?
Pony or not is the question?

An idiot is a dive shop employee or manufacturer's rep who think that calling someone names is gonna make them want to patronize your business ... never could understand the logic behind that mentality ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:56 pm

I have never used a pony, but know many that do. To each their own.

As Bob said, the only idiots making mistakes are business owners/reps who chastise customers for choosing to dive in a certain way. I would never give them another cent.

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:15 pm

spatman wrote:I have never used a pony, but know many that do. To each their own.

As Bob said, the only idiots making mistakes are business owners/reps who chastise customers for choosing to dive in a certain way. I would never give them another cent.

+1

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

60south · Post by **60south** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:55 pm

Dove for 20 years without a pony... Never needed one.

Now I dive with one, but plan on it being a big waste of money because I don't expect to need it now, either.

RoxnDox · Post by **RoxnDox** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:05 pm

Chris, I agree with the folks who say not to spend another dime there. As the guy who needed the pony on that one dive, it's the next item I plan to buy when there's $ to get it with... You're no idiot, just because you chose something different than they think best. They're idiots for pushing away a customer.

Jim

Scubie Doo · Post by **Scubie Doo** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:48 pm

I think it is BS when people judge others on diving preferences. People configure gear for so many reasons. In Fiji, there was a diver with a spare air. Someone poked fun of him. He said he had a terrible experience, can't remember the specifics but it shut that guy up right away. In fact, he was really embarrassed, it was a pretty serious incident. I always vote with my time and money. If you want to provide me with unsolicited criticism, I either won't give you my time or money. Life is too short to deal with a-holes. Having dove with you, I believe you are a very competent and confident diver. And I definitely don't think diving without a pony makes someone an idiot.

LCF · Post by **LCF** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:36 am

I have just about a thousand dives now. I do not and never have carried a pony. I have had one violent free-flow that required sharing gas to get home; I had two good buddies who had maintained gas reserves and shared with me, and it was almost a non-event (except for my adrenaline level!) I have never had to donate gas to anyone who had an equipment malfunction or who was actually OUT of gas; I have donated, twice, to someone who ran low but notified me before he ran out.

I tend to dive doubles for deeper dives, but that's largely because I own them, and need to dive them from time to time to remain fluent with them -- and I cave dive, so I need to remain good with doubles.

I think anyone who calls anybody an idiot is rude. If you want to influence someone's choices, being respectful is much more likely to be persuasive. If you want to make them feel bad or yourself superior, you're a jerk.

finnegankp · Post by **finnegankp** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:46 am

So I've dove a pony on and off since I bought all m gear a couple years ago. And like just about everyone else on here, it's pretty much just been there more as a 'just in case' setup. That said, I help with a lot of OW courses and I have had to use it a couple times for various reasons. I wouldn't say you're an idiot for having one or not, or getting rid of one you don't use. As spat man said, to each their own.

Linedog · Post by **Linedog** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:17 am

I'm reading that everybody has a personal reason to carry or not. Anyone know of a training agency that advocates the use of one for recreational diving?

raptor · Post by **raptor** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:12 am

I use one or dive doubles or a sling. I have had regs fail and need it. The reg fail was because of faulty service and was not a free flow. My buddy was one foot behind but at that instant he could have been half way around the world.

There is + and - but for me there is more +.

Mattleycrue76 · Post by **Mattleycrue76** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:17 am

Linedog wrote:I'm reading that everybody has a personal reason to carry or not. Anyone know of a training agency that advocates the use of one for recreational diving?

IIRC NAUI (or maybe it was TDI?) has a solo diving certification. I haven't read their course requirements but I'm thinking it's a safe assumption that they would require the use of a redundant air source (doubles,pony etc).

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:44 am

Linedog wrote:I'm reading that everybody has a personal reason to carry or not. Anyone know of a training agency that advocates the use of one for recreational diving?

PADI does in their recreational wreck class. At least they did in the version I took maybe 9 years ago. Its roughly a cavern class for wrecks (no further than 130ft from the surface combined linear distance, no deco, within the ambient light zone). I had a pony for that class but long ago sold it.

I think your logic for selling the pony is sound along with not patronizing jerky businesses.

coulterboy · Post by **coulterboy** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:37 am

Like what people say, "to each his own". I dive without a pony since 1994. Haven't experienced diving with one. But, I'm not gonna say that I'll never gonna dive with one. I will cross that path when my dive profiles change in the future.

Some people are just comfortable diving with a pony bottle, it's probably more mental, than the real need to have one. Whatever makes somebody comfortable and give them the peace of mind having it, then it is what it is. I hunt a lot. I liken it with some of my hunting buddies who go with me in the woods and pack 40 bullets (2 bricks) of 300 WM with a .44 magnum pistol on the side. I don't tell them they're stupid. For me, 5 is enough. Although, I do sling a pistol with me.

I'll dive with you anytime Chris.

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:45 pm

Linedog wrote:I'm reading that everybody has a personal reason to carry or not. Anyone know of a training agency that advocates the use of one for recreational diving?

SDI ... but only for solo diving ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

ArcticDiver · Post by **ArcticDiver** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:29 pm

Grateful Diver wrote:
Linedog wrote:I never use my pony bottle so it was time to transfer it to someone who wants it. I go get it VISed before I hand it off, and the manager, an employee of the LDS, and a lady who is some mucky muck for DUI all ask what am I gonna do when I run outa air! I promptly reply "die", they all agree that I understand the gravity of my stupid mistake. The conversation got a touch heated as the terms "idiot" and "big mistake" we're thrown about. Most of the people I dive with use HP100's and smaller, a few also use a 19cf pony. I dive a HP130, giving me more back gas than both of there tanks combined. The one time I was on a dive where a diver went OOA, a pony would not have changed it, it would only have been helpful in case a buddie diver had not been close by. A diver was close by and no one was injured.
Does any agency advocate or train the use of a pony bottle? Now I'm talking for recreation, not tec diving where the use of deco tanks are needed or those rebreather things.
I look at my diving as solo with buddies, I am responsible for myself, I however am also prepared to help my buddy. Using proper gas management and monitoring I don't see the need for a pony, yes a reg could have an issue but with today's technology how often does it really happen?
Pony or not is the question?
An idiot is a dive shop employee or manufacturer's rep who think that calling someone names is gonna make them want to patronize your business ... never could understand the logic behind that mentality ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Amen! Weird people.

This topic will probably never go away until we all go to CCR. Personally I don't like pony bottles because they don't carry enough gas. Plus, in the about 100 dives a year I averaged since 1999 until I was grounded a year ago I traveled for most and shipping the bottle was a pain. So, I opted for either keeping the dive where I could always recover without more gas, or used twins, or used doubles. But, that is my decision. It is my dive and my decision. Hopefully I'll be back in the water soon and I see no reason to change the decision. Likewise, it is your dive and your decision.

kitsapdiver · Post by **kitsapdiver** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:55 pm

I don't think that diving with out a pony is dumb at all, like many people here I've never dove a pony.

That being said, I did change the way i think about gas reserves pretty drastically a couple years ago. The important thing isn't that you have a pony. The important thing is that you have a plan for that worst case scenario. If you dive with a buddy you trust it's fair to rely on his gas as an option for returning to the surface. But you need to ensure your buddy is planning for that. The decision on how much usable gas you are willing to use, and how much you going to leave in reserve is not a personal decision it's a team decision.

I know there are a lot of good instructors who teach gas planning with some easy "scuba math" shortcuts to make it so easy a caveman could do it. For instance the scuba math thread on here talks about tank factors, which are a very cool thing to learn.

BASSMAN · Post by **BASSMAN** » Tue May 01, 2012 6:59 pm

Grateful Diver wrote:
Linedog wrote:I'm reading that everybody has a personal reason to carry or not. Anyone know of a training agency that advocates the use of one for recreational diving?
SDI ... but only for solo diving ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

The only reason I would dive with a pony bottle is if, I were to dive Solo.
But being a "Chatty Kathy" such as myself, I don't see any reason to dive Solo.
Who would I have to, talk about all of the cool stuff I just saw?
For the record, " I don't think your an idiot"
I think, diving a "Long Hose" is a better benefit for you and your buddy!

Keith.

Geek · Post by **Geek** » Wed May 02, 2012 3:34 pm

I dive with a 40' pony WITH a long hose on it but I like to be diffent

Northwest Dive Club