Need al 80's

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:02 pm

I need a couple of aluminum 80's so I can try the sidemount thing. I'm very limited on scuba units so I will go tha AL route for now unless someone has a couple HP 80's or HP 100's they might trade for a pretty new Z-light?

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:18 pm

Hmmm.... Do you really need new tanks to "try the sidemount thing"?

Use a couple of your existing tanks... you do have more than one, right?

The folks I know who are doing sidemount in cold water are using steel tanks of various sizes - 100's seem to be pretty popular.

And as another idea to consider.... Unsolicited Opinion Alert!!

We slung an Al 80 (in addition to the one on our back) in Bonaire this last trip and it worked out very well. (You've probably seen a couple of pics in the trip report.) We did it on maybe a half dozen dives where the conditions / profile warranted, and it was fantastic. Depending on how / what you want to use them for a simple sling set up might work just as well for you for additional gas without you having to change your entire rig.

I think slinging an extra tank is an underused option for additional gas at a recreational level - but that's just me. As anyone who has used them will attest, properly rigged the tank just "rides" out of the way, under your elbow, and you hardly notice that it is there. Of course it needs to be rigged properly, practiced, etc etc etc so that you don't die and blame me for the idea after you are dead... but after all the caveats and lawyer ease a slung tank for additional gas on a recreational profile is a pretty "easy" fix without doing doubles or changing your entire rig to sidemount.

Going completely to a sidemount set-up, it seems to me, would primarily be if you want to tec dive but don't necessarily want backmounted doubles.

YMMV...

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:21 pm

left and right valves are a serious pain :(
Buying someone's doubles, splitting them up, and selling the bands to partially pay for the valve plugs and offset the costs overall can be effective.

good luck

Nwbrewer · Post by **Nwbrewer** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:22 pm

Dusty2 wrote:I need a couple of aluminum 80's so I can try the sidemount thing. I'm very limited on scuba units so I will go tha AL route for now unless someone has a couple HP 80's or HP 100's they might trade for a pretty new Z-light?

If I may suggest something, look for LP72's.

They can be had as cheap (or cheaper!) than al80s, they're easier to handle, smaller in diameter, and they end neutral, not 4lbs positive like al80s. (adding 8lbs sucks). At the end of a dive with 500psi in each 80, with all the weight on my back and 2 balloons lifting me from the sides I felt like the kid from 'Up'. With 72's I can just leave them on the hip D-ring too, no need to unclip them and move them to the fwd d-rings.

At the very least borrow some 80's and try them before you buy.

Just my 2psi.

Jake

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:45 pm

Thanks guys, I have been mulling it over in my little brain and here is my reasoning.

The reason for the sidemount is so I can rig and unrig the tanks after I'm in the water and don't have to carry all that weight on my back. My knees and ankle are beginning to tell me that all that weight is just too much for this old bod. I only have HP120s at present and I carry a 30 cu pony so that's 150cu but of course the idea is to not use the pony. Double 72s wouldn't be any gain at all. Double 80's isn't much gain either but being on a very tight budget steels are just too much money and and very few actually get on the market except at judicious prices. al80s are usually pretty cheap and readily available.

PS I have a couple sets of doubles bands laying around with no reason for having them!

renoun · Post by **renoun** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:50 pm

Nwbrewer wrote: If I may suggest something, look for LP72's.

My housemate was just talking about selling his doubled 72's with a thermo manifold. Sell the bands and, buy some plugs for $10 ea., and you would be set.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:53 pm

Do you really need 150cf of gas? I can't remember the older thread we had talking about this, but 2x lp72s is still quite a bit of gas and they are overall quite a bit lighter and cheaper than al80s too. I'd take the 6cf "penalty" and do a five min shorter dive to avoid diving 2x al80s. The lead to sink all that is back-breaking in itself.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:54 pm

renoun wrote:
Nwbrewer wrote: If I may suggest something, look for LP72's.
My housemate was just talking about selling his doubled 72's with a thermo manifold. Sell the bands and, buy some plugs for $10 ea., and you would be set.

must resist urge to buy more tanks....

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:08 pm

renoun wrote: My housemate was just talking about selling his doubled 72's with a thermo manifold. Sell the bands and, buy some plugs for $10 ea., and you would be set.

Yeh, But your talking allot of money

Nwbrewer · Post by **Nwbrewer** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:17 pm

Dusty2 wrote:
renoun wrote: My housemate was just talking about selling his doubled 72's with a thermo manifold. Sell the bands and, buy some plugs for $10 ea., and you would be set.
Yeh, But your talking allot of money

How do you know that without hearing how much he wants for them? I've seen similar setups on CL for around $150-250. Sell the bands for $50 and you're into them $100-200. Sell some of those other sets you have around and it's paid for.

I'll second Richard, what dives are you doing that you NEED 150cf of gas?

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:33 pm

Nwbrewer wrote:
How do you know that without hearing how much he wants for them? I've seen similar setups on CL for around $150-250. Sell the bands for $50 and you're into them $100-200. Sell some of those other sets you have around and it's paid for.

I'll second Richard, what dives are you doing that you NEED 150cf of gas?

I dive 120's now and I'm always wishing I had a bit more time so 150 doesn't seem all that luxurious. I have never seen a set of doubles for less than $450. But I'm listening.

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:43 pm

Dusty2 wrote:I dive 120's now and I'm always wishing I had a bit more time....

Greed kills...

Come on, Rich, just do another dive! It's not that complicated....

More gas = more weight, anyway you slice it, which means more pressure on the ol' bod....

Smaller tanks + dive more = all good!

I'll do extra dives with ya! We can help each other to water in our walkers and beat all those svelte whippersnapper divers with our canes!

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:44 pm

Nwbrewer wrote:
I'll second Richard, what dives are you doing that you NEED 150cf of gas?

To play devil's advocate, sometimes it's nice to have enough gas for two dives without having to move the tanks very far from the water between dives.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:55 pm

spatman wrote:
Nwbrewer wrote:
I'll second Richard, what dives are you doing that you NEED 150cf of gas?

To play devil's advocate, sometimes it's nice to have enough gas for two dives without having to move the tanks very far from the water between dives.

Its all fun and games until the tide comes in

The 6-8cf difference between the AL80s and lp72 tanks (depending on the fills) adds up to about 90more seconds at 100ft. 72s on CL are generally in the $50 range (each), 6061 Aluminums are more like $75+ each depending on age and condition.

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:14 pm

Tom Nic wrote: Come on, Rich, just do another dive! It's not that complicated....

Awe but it is! one more dive = One more trip down that hill and one more trip back up + one more swim to the site and one more swim back + getting out of all that gear and back into it again + another hour for the SI.

Being able to carry those tanks to the water by themselves before putting all that gear on sound like heaven to me and better yet dropping those tanks prior to standing up in the water after being weightless for an hour or more sounds downright awesome.

And NEVER having to support that 150lbs on your back while trying to negotiate through unseen rocks and down precarious slopes "Priceless"

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:19 pm

the al80s will require 8-9lbs more lead than lp72s :(

I have found its rather difficult to find good places to put lead on a SM rig. Maybe counterintuitively you want a good chunk of it up high, like shoulder blade level. Roughly a 60/40 split between shoulder blades and waist.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:38 pm

CaptnJack wrote:the al80s will require 8-9lbs more lead than lp72s :(

I have found its rather difficult to find good places to put lead on a SM rig. Maybe counterintuitively you want a good chunk of it up high, like shoulder blade level. Roughly a 60/40 split between shoulder blades and waist.

One of the key reasons I chose the nomad XT was because of the "weight plate" addition. Allows me to spread the weight along my back somewhat.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:49 pm

The Nomad is not a budget SM rig though. If Dusty is cobbling something together, finding a place for the extra ~8lbs AL80s will require might be a problem.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:00 pm

Very true.

defied · Post by **defied** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:52 pm

You could go with the stock back mount instead of re-inventing the wheel... Coff..

D

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:06 pm

I'll go ahead and say it: Dusty, you seem like a perfect candidate for an SCR. They can be found fairly cheaply.

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:11 pm

defied wrote:You could go with the stock back mount instead of re-inventing the wheel... Coff..

D

I am going with my standard BP/W setup with a Dive Rite tech butt plate which bolts on nicely. According to those that should not be mentioned the simple fix is to simply attach 5 lb weights to the lower end of the tanks and since I have the BP still there it shouldn't be that hard to find other mounting points.

SCR? Cheap? you gots to be kidding!

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:33 pm

Back to my original point about a sling. Keep your stock 120, rig up an 80 or 72 as a sling. Carry sling bottle to water, then go back gear up (minus pony) head for water, clip on stage and off you go. No muss, no fuss, no new rig, and you have 200 cu ft of gas to do your 90-100 minute dive with. Plus now you don't have the weight of your pony, and you can extend your dive time close to double your normal dive so one less trip on the back and knees.

Simple, easy, relatively cheap, and very workable, and accomplishes exactly what you are looking for. All the info for rigging a stage is readily available, and you already dive a BP&W.

spatman · Post by **spatman** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:57 pm

Seems the quantity of gas isn't so much the issue as the weight Dusty is carrying down to the water. He'd still have to lug the 120 down to the water on his back, which is what he's trying to avoid.

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:03 pm

spatman wrote:Seems the quantity of gas isn't so much the issue as the weight Dusty is carrying down to the water. He'd still have to lug the 120 down to the water on his back, which is what he's trying to avoid.

True, but now he has his uber long dive, avoids those two fully geared trips to the water, gets rid of the weight of the pony (which mounted on the side of the main tank is a pain besides the weight), and doesn't have to configure a whole new rig.

But you are most likely right, so I will shut up now.

Northwest Dive Club

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