Batteries 18650

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mz53480
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Re: Batteries 18650

Post by mz53480 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:11 pm

H20doctor wrote:...The battery exploded in the camera while charging...


That's it. I'm not using the 18650 batteries any more.
REFUND!!!!!!
...I like going to the chamber.. They have great food there, and awsome live music "H20doctor"
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H20doctor
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Re: Batteries 18650

Post by H20doctor » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:22 pm

mz53480 wrote:
H20doctor wrote:...The battery exploded in the camera while charging...


That's it. I'm not using the 18650 batteries any more.
REFUND!!!!!!


+1 i want my money back too, 3,000 worth of fire damage in my room
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Jeff Kruse
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Re: Batteries 18650

Post by Jeff Kruse » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:06 am

H20doctor wrote:yea i read them, im on CPF aslo , And I can say that ANY LIPO can explode , the same as Nickle Metal, Or SLA ... Its evident on the internet .. Batteries do strange things. Any Battery we use on a daily basis is dangerous..



It's not the same. Nimh and SLA are much much safer and forgiving. Thats right, any LIPO can explode under the right circumstance. It would be wise to learn how to prevent that.

BTW, I believe NIMH burn rather than explode and the nasty’s they create aren’t even in the same league as LIPO.

H20doctor, what are you trying to say? That’s it’s ok to just use 18650’s without knowing the real dangers? If I understand the OP’s setup or what you posted about having a holder for up to 8 cells with the PCB on the bottom. IMO this can be very very dangerous if the protection circuit fails.

All it may take for a BOOM is one of those cells not getting charged. If you took 7 fully charged cells and 1 cell that “forgot” to get charged and put them in series and then drew some high current you may get a BOOM when the uncharged cell got fully depleted. That is the danger of cells in series. Your protection circuit may prevent that like in all laptops, drills, ect, but in all of those cases the cells in each of those packs can’t be removed so you can’t forget to charge 1 cell.

The danger dramatically decreases if you are using protected (with PCB’s on each cell) cells. H20doctor hasn’t specified which cells he uses but implies they are unprotected because he has a protection PCB in the bottom of the “pack”.

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H20doctor
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Re: Batteries 18650

Post by H20doctor » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:03 pm

Dear Jeff Kruse , i find your witch hunt against LiPo batteries and me very stupid and irritating.. The fact that i have to reply to you attacking me about batteries is completely dumb
rule #1 Dont be a dick , and your being a dick
But i will answer you once last time since you cant understand batteries, and you say your over on CPF , but i doubt you read any of the threads there with people building LIPO packs for dive lights on the dive forum, and flashlight people..
My pack holds 4 18650 batteries.. i use panasonics and ultrafire cells .. Protected !!!!!
I use this holder
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Key ... EmvYKrE%3d

Aalska Herb dive light Only holds 4 batteries Not 8..
If one of those cells goes out or bad , or doesnt charge , Guess what ?? NOTHING, the light doesnt turn on.. and the battery gets thrown away, and you use a new battery.. If you put 4 batteries in series and one battery is dead, It does Nothing!!! Nada .. no reverse charg no explosion...If i put 3 batteries at 4.3 volts and the last battery at 2.o volts in the pack.. It does nothing but discharge at the same rate.. due to the PCB.. how do I know ? ive been building these packs for 7 years DUDE.. 7 years and its not a big deal .. at all..In fact there have been 7 divers here on this board useing this system , with 100 % NO ISSUES.. thats Impressive
youre like the Boy who cries wolf .. and there is no wolf here on nwdc , 18650 batteries get sold all over the world , and many people in the world use them in battery packs .. protected and unprotected. to come on this Board and start acting like you are the battery Police , shows you dont know what your talking about.. and you dont..
you dont build Build or work with 18650 batteries, PCB,s and soldiering of Packs..
I do
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spatman
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Re: Batteries 18650

Post by spatman » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:03 pm

Everybody calm down. We're talking about batteries, fer cryin' out loud.
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coulterboy
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Re: Batteries 18650

Post by coulterboy » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:29 pm

I'm one of the users of the H20Doctor lights. As a matter of fact, I have a new light from him, I call it the "Big Red". I have used the 18650 batteries on my light for over a year and works fine. If "sh.t" does happen and it explodes on me while diving or when it's charging at home, well then, that's just it, :"sh.t" just happens. One could use the most expensive, sophisticated battery in the world, but the bottom line is, "sh.t just happens". Period.
When was the last time you did something for the first time?

Alaska-Herb
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Re: Batteries 18650

Post by Alaska-Herb » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:48 pm

Allow me to chime in here just a bit. When I said before I was not smart enough to understand this I was over stating my issue. I understand the basics and I would not use anything that I was not comfortable with. The battery pack that h2o built for me is a very basic solid pack it is simply a 16 volt system. I agree that when I have a bad cell what happens is i get nothing, this is why I started this thread I was having to many nothings and wanted to step up the quality of the battery. Every battery I have used and have seen is individuality charged and is protected by its own circuit attached to the battery.

Now I will acknowledge that use of this battery does pose some risk, but in everything we do there is risk. Our jobs are to

1. identify the risk, ( it may blow up or burn if misused)

2. determine the level of risk (remote as i have not had any issue and many others that I know have been using this battery in the same manner as I and have not had any problem.)

3. then reduce the risk as much as possible ( I am doing that by trying to buy the best quality battery I can afford, I take care of my cells I know which ones have been charged and which have not and I test each one with a digital volt meter before installing it in a pack so that I know it's current voltage.

Finally I appreciate Jeff for reminding me or educating me about the danger that these things are not toys that can be taken lightly. I also apprecaite that H2o Dr. Has built a quality light for me and he has spent a lot of time testing to make sure that the risk of an issue has been reduced as much as possible.

so can we move on to a real issue that needs to be solved.

why do you guys lose so much gear on the beach? or how can we get shipping rates to Alaska under control.

:smt064


thanks guys for the conversation

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sitkadiver
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Re: Batteries 18650

Post by sitkadiver » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:54 am

I've been using an 18650 powered H2O Doc light for a couple years now(maybe 3 yrs. ???) and I have nad no safety issues at all with the 18650's. The only time I had one smoke is when I went at a dead cell with some channel locks to see what made it tick.... Definately not the batteries fault.

The 18650's I have were all ordered from E-Bay. This is due to two factors:

1. Shipping cost from the lower 48 to Alaska is fairly high, and shipping dircet from Communist Red China was cheaper. If someone can figure that one out for me, then our economic woes may be over.( Groan intended)

2. One of the posters on CPF stated he was seeing a huge variation in mAh output from a variety of battery producers. I therefore opted to buy the cheaper batteries, which were made on the same continent as all the retail outlets batteries were and simply expect to have a 20 - 25 % mortalliy rate.

One thing I would recommend for people buying an 18650 powered torch is to give a couple of burn tests before you use it. This gives you two huge advantages:

1. You know what your burn time will be before you get in the water with the light.

and

2. You can find/locate/get rid of any bum cells by using a volt meter before and after you charge the batteries. This can be tedious, but it saved my neck when I was crying to Chris about a battery issue. Ultimately he was right and I had a bad cell out of the 16 or so I was using between the 2 lights.

I could probably upgrade my battery pack to NiMH, but at this point I see no reason to. I'm getting plenty of light from my Doc made lights and the burn time on medium power is over 2 hours. On the contsant output light, it's pumping 16 volts for about an hour and 40 minutes. The batteries are small and portable enough that I can carry several spare sets with me to swap out between dives.

Of the batteries that have exploded, I know of only one that did so while in a dive light and being used and it was a 1270 SLA. I don't recall specifically what happened, but the diver reported hearing an audible "pop" and when he inspected the light on the surface, found the battery had shorted, heated the liquid to a vapor and the pressure puched the top of the battery off. I vaquely recall this was due to a short at the switch and not in the battery.

The only other evidence I have of a battery failure while diving, was reading "Mixed Gas Diving" by Bret Gilliam, but agian, it was a decade and half ago when I last read that book.

Anyway, my advice Herb, would be to buy some 18650's on E-bay and plan on having 25-30 % of the batteries not make it thruogh 4 burn tests. The savings wille be worth it, I think.
I do not believe in taking unnecesary risks, but a life without risk is not worth living.
-Charles Lindbergh

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