Dry suits... What do you dive?

[mtrautman]

Hello everybody!

I am finding more and more that my 7mm wetsuit is not ideal for diving up here. Not that it stops me!

As I have begun diving more frequently, the thought of a dry suit has crossed my mind more than once.

I want to know:

1. What do YOU dive? (dry suit and undergarments)
2. Why do you dive it?
3. What would you suggest? I want to stay around 1500-2000 dollars as a max.

What I would like out of a dry suit: a good decade of use(durability), I plan on frequently diving, I have no problem switching out undergarments, and possibly some tech diving in the future.

Thank you very much!

Marshall

[chokolad]

Hello everybody!

I am finding more and more that my 7mm wetsuit is not ideal for diving up here. Not that it stops me!

As I have begun diving more frequently, the thought of a dry suit has crossed my mind more than once.

I want to know:

1. What do YOU dive? (dry suit and undergarments)
2. Why do you dive it?
3. What would you suggest? I want to stay around 1500-2000 dollars as a max.

What I would like out of a dry suit: a good decade of use(durability), I plan on frequently diving, I have no problem switching out undergarments, and possibly some tech diving in the future.

Thank you very much!

Marshall

1. Drysuit: DUI TLS 350 with all the trimmings. Undergarments - 4th Element Xerotherm + 4th element Halo 3D
2.
3. I would say DUI TLS or FLX Extreme or one of the Santi's but that will be more between 2k and 3k. If you search this forum a bit there was a very recent discussion about this topic with tons of information.

[LCF]

I dive a Whites Fusion, and I've done that for over four years and somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 - 550 dives.

What I like about the Fusion: Fit isn't critical, or even terribly important. As long as the suit is big ENOUGH, and the seals fit, the rest doesn't matter. As someone who doesn't fit in much of anybody's stock suit, I like this.

The suit is light, and with the Sport skin, dries almost as fast as a trilam suit. That makes it easy to travel with.

It's REALLY hard to hurt. Almost all the leaks I've had with the Fusions have been in the valves. The material of the suit is hard to damage, and the skin protects it just in the way that Whites says it does. When it is damaged, Gorilla tape makes such a good temporary fix that I haven't bothered with permanent ones

The front zip version is available with the user-replaceable system for seals. Since I go through a neck seal about every six months, this is a big deal for me. No more sending the suit out and waiting a week or more to get it back!

What I don't like:

The suit is a little more difficult to get into than a standard suit. Once you master the technique, it isn't bad, but it is a little more work than a DUI, for example.

The pocket options for the Fusion don't rock. The Sport skin requires pocket shorts; the Tech skin has pockets which have adequate capacity, but the flaps that close them are so soft you can't feel them with dry gloves. I believe Whites is working on this.

The suit comes with fabric socks, and requires some type of overshoe or boot. I don't like that. Whites DOES make a quasi-attached boot, and I will confess that I have not tried them. I don't like boots because a) they are one more thing I can forget to pack, and b) they can come off, with the fin that's on them, and in some of my diving environments, that's a REALLY bad thing.

Overall, for the price of the Fusion and its really impressive durability, I think it's an extremely good choice in a suit.

Right now, you can buy the back zip version for $999. This does NOT offer the option of the user-replaceable neck seal (won't fit with the zipper placement), and it comes with the Sport skin. But it's one hell of a deal on a good quality dry suit.

For undergarments, I've tried the Diving Concepts Thinsulate, the DUI 400g, the Halo, the White Mk3, the Whites Thermal Fusion, and I have a couple of dives in a Weezle. I really like the Thermal Fusion, because it's the least bulky, offers the best flexibility, is easy care, and is really sort of amazingly warm.

[gymratdiver]

I dive an Apollo Bio. It's a neoprene suit, and seals. Got it for right around $1000. Been really happy with it. It's a back zip so a buddy is a must. I haven't bought an undergarment yet. Just cold weather base layers. Would like to get an undergarment but just haven't yet.

[mtrautman]

Thanks for the responses guys.

One of the big questions I have also been wondering:

What are the difference between the fusion dry suits, the only real ones I see are the zipper and pocket placements... and the bullet is supposed to be much stronger.

[H20doctor]

I dive an Atlan.. Best suit ever.. Im on #2.. First one lasted me 8yrs..

[Tom Nic]

Almost 700 dives on a USIA tri-lam. I beat the crappy out of equipment and this has been a great suit. 6 months out of the year I wear their stock undergarment with poly prop long johns and am fine. I bought a Weezle Extreme Plus that I wear in the Winter... Toasty toasty. Water temps in the low 40's, 1 hr plus dives and I don't think about temps once. It is too warm for Summer, bit awesome for Winter even though I have to add a few pounds because of the additional warm toasty air.

There are many great dry suit manufactures out there, USIA is one of them.

[LCF]

The differences in the Fusion skins are thickness trading off against flexibility.

The Sport skin is all Lycra. You can't put pockets on it without some kind of clever DIY (PM airsix for details). It's very light, and so flexible you think you're diving a wetsuit. Dries fast.

The Tech skin includes some 1mm neoprene. It will support pockets -- they do well when you are diving, and fine when you are walking on land with the suit zipped up. The big problem is with the pockets loaded and the suit unzipped for land time -- then the pockets pull the skin and suit down and you waddle. Sport skin dries a little slower, and weighs a little more.

The Bullet skin is for the people who don't believe the Sport or Tech skins will do the trick. It's all 1 mm neoprene. It's heavy and dries slowly, and to rinse the suit adequately, you have to undo the Velcro and run water down between the bag and skin, front and back. Its a pain. The neoprene significantly reduces the flexibility of the suit. I bought a Bullet skin, because it was the most luscious, vivid red; I hate it, and it hangs in the back of the gear locker. I would not recommend anyone buy one, and James Flenner, who was a Fusion early adopter and is a big fan, hated his, too.

[Jeff Pack]

I just dunk my bullet skin in Salt Away, no dissection involved. I like them so much I bought another skin for my backup Sport Skin suit.

Downside, they do impair flexibility abit.

As for rock boots, I use the White Rock boots and dearly love them for rocky entrances.

[dwashbur]

I dive an OS systems shell suit, the blue one, with a Fourth Element Arctic undergarment. I like the undergarment because it's a two-piece, plus is has optional sock with it. I got the suit because I won the undergarment at the Dive & Travel Expo a couple of years ago and it didn't fit under my Bare D6. Which brings me to...

I dove a Bare D6 for about four years and loved it. With that suit, I didn't even need an undergarment. I wore a 1 mil Henderson dive skin, and if I thought the water was going to be exceptionally cold, I put a long underwear top over that. And I was fine. The only reasons I went to a different suit were a) I won that undergarment and wanted to use it, and b) after four years, my D6 was starting to wear out. I probably put 300 dives on it and it held up beautifully. I can recommend either one.

[Furnari]

I've got a USIA bag suit that I bought used for $500. I use the USIA undergarment that it came with, along with a thin performance-type shirt and bottom (mostly for moisture wicking if we're hiking or swimming a ways). That combo is fine for temps down to mid to low 40's. Colder than that, I add fleece bottoms and a fleece vest. 2 things I like about the USIA suit- it's held up really well to rough entries and exits over jettys and other tough environments, and the zipper on it (and my brother's similar USIA) seem to be significantly easier to open and close than on any other suit in I've been around. In my opinion, that makes it less likely to snag or bind up than on other suits.

Like anyone else, I'm always looking for the bigger, better deal so I'm kinda curious about the Fusions, especially with all the good things I've heard about them on this forum.

One more thing to keep in mind- adding dry gloves for me was almost as big of an improvement in my dive experiences as the switch from wetsuit to the USIA. If you can, factor that into your budget.

[Jeff Pack]

the fusion is an incredibly easy to dive suit. The form fitting nature of it means there's barely any bubble to manage.

I used to dive the mk3 for an undergarment, but they vent like a plugged toilet. The thermal fusion is much better, but not as warm.

[mtrautman]

Once again, thank you everyone for the input.
I was browsing DRIS, and I just made a discovery... the dry core of white skins are all the same... correct? Because if this is true... for the price of a whites fusion bullet (1899.99)

http://www.diverightinscuba.com/catalog ... -2750.html

You can get a fusion sport AND a bullet skin

http://www.diverightinscuba.com/catalog ... -1996.html
+
http://www.diverightinscuba.com/catalog ... -2766.html

Did anyone buy a dry suit from DRIS? Could you share any experience you have with their seem warranty? For those who aren't familiar with the warranty, you can see it here:

http://www.diverightinscuba.com/catalog ... -i-19.html

That being said, I plan on getting my dry suit if possible from a LDS, seeing as I will need a dry suit certification anyways. supporting local business doesn't hurt either.

One issue that has come to mind with the zipper on the whites fusion, does it interfere with BP/W harnesses? it seems like the zipper line would go under the shoulder straps... possible messing up the fit.

As for the pockets on the fusions... I hear they are a PITA... what has your guys' experience been?

[Jeff Pack]

There are a number of Whites dealers about. I got mine from Tacoma Scuba.

No worries with BP&W. Been diving mine a year and 150 dives. (Zeagle BP, today switching to a Halcyon)

The pockets arent so bad on the bullet. Hard to feel with gloves on though, and when I put an SMB in one pocket, backup light in the other, the bottom half of the suit sags alittle, so I have to pull it up abit before I don my gear. But thatsbecause the skin is an XXL (for someone 6'3") and I'm 6ft. I've lost enough weight to go to a L/XL(which is what my Thermal Fusion is), but I like the fit of the XXL.

[Jeff Pack]

Depending on your size, there's a bullet skin on scubaboard thats barely used (Bullet I think) (LG/XL)

[LCF]

I don't like the Bullet skin. I really don't think you gain much of anything with it, and you lose flexibility, lightness, and ease of care.

The zipper isn't a problem with a backplate harness. The zipper does have a stress point where it curves over the shoulder, and that's where my first one eventually failed, but it took about 450 dives to do it, which is not a bad lifetime for a zipper.

Jeff, I find it interesting that you think the TF is not as warm as the MK3. I've traded back and forth between them, and they seem pretty comparable to me. The TF is a LOT easier to get into the suit, though!

[Jeff Pack]

Laura James made a simple observation. If I drop 4pds of lead going to the TF, thats air no longer in the suit for insulation. I never needed anything past my UA Compression base layer, yet now need an additional layer over it.

As for the bullet skin, Salt Away takes care of ease of care, but yes, some flexbility is lost, but gained in the protection of the core.

Tacoma Scuba will barely sell you a suit that isnt a bullet skin, unless you really demand it...

[LCF]

I really don't think you need the Bullet skin to protect the suit. As I've said before, I had over 400 dives on my original suit with just the Sport skin, and had three leaks, one of which was a huge tear that any suit on earth would have suffered. And I cave dive, which often involves crawling around on limestone in the process of getting in and out.

I feel bad for folks who are being pushed into buying the Bullet skin. You lose a lot of what makes the suit fabulous by buying it. And this is not just my opinion; James Flenner, who is a HUGE Fusion fan and writes wonderful reviews, bought the Bullet skin and loathed it.

[mtrautman]

How does the tech skin compare with the flexibility of the sport vs. the durability of the bullet?

I would have to say, I am torn! (no pun intended), because I truly find myself desiring the "ruggedness"... but if there is little gain in durability of the bullet compared to the massive gain in flexibility of the sport.... then it would seem like the sport is a good option.

[BlowBubbles]

I dive a High Tide crushed neoprene.

Pros;
Made to fit
Warm
Durable
Comes with undergarment

Cons;
Expensive
Bulky to dry, store, pack
Can be too warm for moderate waters

[LCF]

Flexibility: Sport +10; Tech +8, Bullet +3

Durability: Not enough dives on the Bullet to say, but both Sport and Tech are more durable than any other dry suit in our family. The Sport skin itself does wear -- it pills a bit, and fades. The Tech seems to be more "durable" in that respect. Both protect the underlying bag very well.

[jerryehrlich]

I don't like the Bullet skin. I really don't think you gain much of anything with it, and you lose flexibility, lightness, and ease of care.

The zipper isn't a problem with a backplate harness. The zipper does have a stress point where it curves over the shoulder, and that's where my first one eventually failed, but it took about 450 dives to do it, which is not a bad lifetime for a zipper.

Jeff, I find it interesting that you think the TF is not as warm as the MK3. I've traded back and forth between them, and they seem pretty comparable to me. The TF is a LOT easier to get into the suit, though!

Plus one on the Thermal Fusion, I have used the MK3, 400 G thinsulate, Weezle, and others. They are all good, but the TF seems to work better for me. IMO all of them require additional layer(s) of stuff underneath them for longer dives in the Pac NW.

I have all three skins, and you speak the truth, but I dive the The Bullet Skin, it does have better pockets, but mostly
because I think it is cooler looking
See rule #2
Best,
Jerry

[spatman]

Hello everybody!

I am finding more and more that my 7mm wetsuit is not ideal for diving up here. Not that it stops me!

As I have begun diving more frequently, the thought of a dry suit has crossed my mind more than once.

I want to know:

1. What do YOU dive? (dry suit and undergarments)
2. Why do you dive it?
3. What would you suggest? I want to stay around 1500-2000 dollars as a max.

What I would like out of a dry suit: a good decade of use(durability), I plan on frequently diving, I have no problem switching out undergarments, and possibly some tech diving in the future.

Thank you very much!

Marshall

Truth is, Marshall, is that there are a lot of good suits out there. The real key is fit. Each manufacturer cuts their suits slightly differently. Go out and try on as many as you can, rent them borrow them, whatever it takes.

[Norris]

[Gdog]

Late addon, USIA Ultraflex, very durable, really like it. Also fits your pricepoint.