big changes for Dusty's light

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Dusty2
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big changes for Dusty's light

Post by Dusty2 »

Well guess it's time to show what I have been working on. A lot of people have asked if I could make the can smaller and in the past the answer has been no if I wanted to stay with an off the shelf inexpensive battery pack. That has changed. I have found a Li-po battery pack that has the same specs as the NiMH's I have been using only way smaller so I can reduce the canister size without sacrificing performance. I did a burn down test today and they lasted 2 1/2 hours on hi on a fresh charge and the light output seems brighter due to the Li-po's higher amp output. The only drawback is due to the protection circuits the light will shut off rather than going into strobe as before so at 2 1/2hrs it will shut off. They are very small packs though so it will be very easy to carry spares.
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Scubie Doo
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by Scubie Doo »

Crap! I see another 2-3 dusty lights in my future :)
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Dusty2
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by Dusty2 »

Scubie Doo wrote:Crap! I see another 2-3 dusty lights in my future :)
Damn! Isn't that just awful :penelope: !
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Linedog
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by Linedog »

Big changes, or should that be small changes? :smt064
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Novice
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by Novice »

Dusty, are you still using the same emitter? I thought you were considering a different drop in.
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by finnegankp »

Dusty2 wrote:... I did a burn down test today and they lasted 2 1/2 hours on hi on a fresh charge and the light output seems brighter due to the Li-po's higher amp output. ...They are very small packs though so it will be very easy to carry spares.
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What's the burn time of the older Dusty's Lights? Do the new lights have the same charging time? Are spares about the same price as the old NiMH battery packs?
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Dusty2
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by Dusty2 »

Novice wrote:Dusty, are you still using the same emitter? I thought you were considering a different drop in.
I have yet to find one that out performs the one I'm using
finnegankp wrote:
Dusty2 wrote:... I did a burn down test today and they lasted 2 1/2 hours on hi on a fresh charge and the light output seems brighter due to the Li-po's higher amp output. ...They are very small packs though so it will be very easy to carry spares.
0019net.JPG
What's the burn time of the older Dusty's Lights? Do the new lights have the same charging time? Are spares about the same price as the old NiMH battery packs?
The older batteries do just about the same amount of time. The battery I did the burn down on took 2 hours to charge at 3amps so the burn time and charge time are close using a conservative charge rate on the Li-ion's. They can be charged at up to 5ampsin theory but I am not one to push the specs. That battery had been completely used till it shut off so that's 2 hrs from totally dead. The big deal here is we are talking apples and oranges. The old packs are Nimh and they will just keep going till they just don't have enough power to keep the light blinking where the Li-ion batteries have a protection circuit built in so they will shut off at 6v to prevent battery damage. The lithium's also hold a charge better than the NiMH's which lose power just sitting.
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by CaptnJack »

I'm sure you have your reasons, but you might consider putting the lion batteries in the larger canister for a ~4+ hr burntime. Then on a 2 dive day you aren't running them down to zero and hammering on the battery quite so hard. Just my personal preference to only use the top ~75% of any storage battery to lengthen its overall life. Probably wasn't such a big deal wth the NiMH since they are so cheap and when they fail they don't tend to reverse polarity and burnup on the charger.
Congratulations on the ongoing light biz :)
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by defied »

Have you thought about a driver that goes direct draw once the light reaches a Certain voltage? That way, instead of the light shutting off, it will begin to dim.

D
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by kdupreez »

I think those CREE 1200 lumen LED heads have the driver built into the LED head unit?
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Dusty2
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by Dusty2 »

CaptnJack wrote:I'm sure you have your reasons, but you might consider putting the lion batteries in the larger canister for a ~4+ hr burntime. Then on a 2 dive day you aren't running them down to zero and hammering on the battery quite so hard. Just my personal preference to only use the top ~75% of any storage battery to lengthen its overall life. Probably wasn't such a big deal wth the NiMH since they are so cheap and when they fail they don't tend to reverse polarity and burnup on the charger.
Congratulations on the ongoing light biz :)
Good thoughts but the Li-ons have a protection circuit built in that won't let them go below 6v so concerns about dropping below optimum are nill. as for the doubling up that is an option that is do-able just more expensive. I plan to make it available.
defied wrote:Have you thought about a driver that goes direct draw once the light reaches a Certain voltage? That way, instead of the light shutting off, it will begin to dim.
The driver isn't the factor. It's the fact that the protection circuit in the battery won't let it drop below 6v. When it hits 6v it shuts down. It's a safety issue.
kdupreez wrote:I think those CREE 1200 lumen LED heads have the driver built into the LED head unit?
Yes the driver is built into the module.
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by defied »

In relation to my concerns about the light just cutting out on the diver while under, the driver is a factor. You can get or build a driver that will drop consumption as the voltage gets lower, and give it a dimming effect. This will warn the diver (Like the strobe effect did preciously) that they may want to switch to their back up.

D
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by kdupreez »

none of the current HID lights warn you AFAIK? they just cut out.
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seether60
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by seether60 »

Carry a battery pack that is built for the dive plan, if it can't last a dive its not worth carrying.
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pogiguy05
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by pogiguy05 »

Just buy two lights and all is covered for a great day of diving :smt064
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Dusty2
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by Dusty2 »

pogiguy05 wrote:Just buy two lights and all is covered for a great day of diving :smt064
And it would make me happy too! :smt064

Any way last week I did 2 70min dives without so much as a flicker so that's enough for one good dive with the CCR folks or two better than average dives for us poor folks who dive OC. An extra battery pack is about $40 and at 2" by 2.2" they are an easy carry for more dives if needed. If you need 4+ hrs and don't want to carry a spare I can build you the old size canister and double up on the batteries.
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by defied »

kdupreez wrote:none of the current HID lights warn you AFAIK? they just cut out.
This is HID? I thought it was LED. If it's LED, I believe they all go direct drive (or simulated) at a certain voltage. Couldn't hurt anyways.

D
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Dusty2
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by Dusty2 »

So, After much consulting with my RC buddies and research into pricing, availability, and benefits it's lookin like Lipo is not yet ready for the general public. The costs far outweigh the benefits and safety is still very much a factor.

So it looks like I stay with the proven product and "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by kdupreez »

defied wrote:
kdupreez wrote:none of the current HID lights warn you AFAIK? they just cut out.
This is HID? I thought it was LED. If it's LED, I believe they all go direct drive (or simulated) at a certain voltage. Couldn't hurt anyways.

D

These are LED's, but I was mentioning the fact that all of the dive community that dive with HID's have the "cut out" problem today and you ned to burn test your lights and have a rough idea of burn time anyways..

Kinda like scooters, if you dont want to be stranded without said electronic equipment, you should know roughly how long it will last.
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by defied »

So because HID's cut out, we should keep it that way with LED's?

Thanks for the how-to lessons and history of diving and electronics. 0]

D
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by fmerkel »

How a LED light might 'dim' is subject to both the battery and the driver.
If you are using a Lion battery like Dusty was considering going to there is circuitry to prevent over discharge which damages the battery and potentially also may make it more dangerous. So the battery circuitry cuts out at a specific point. Gone!

The drivers, most 'better' lights having drivers, attempt to keep the brightness constant over the discharge of the battery. LED's without drivers simply start getting dimmer and dimmer. Dusty's light maintains fairly uniform output until the driver voltage drops too low and then it signals by going into strobe mode. It does this with NiMh as the strobe cut-off is lower than the Lion safety cut-off. Note that this is light specific to THAT driver and you may not see that behavior in other lights with different drivers.
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defied
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by defied »

We've covered that.
What I am saying is that a driver could be designed to lower power output once a voltage is reached that is above the cutoff range of the LiPo in order to alert the diver that the light is getting close to being done.
Hell, there may already be one or twelve in existence one could buy.

D
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by Nwbrewer »

defied wrote: Hell, there may already be one or twelve in existence one could buy.

D

The only dive light I'm aware of that does something like is the Dive X light, if it ever become available.
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defied
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by defied »

Nwbrewer wrote:
defied wrote: Hell, there may already be one or twelve in existence one could buy.

D

The only dive light I'm aware of that does something like is the Dive X light, if it ever become available.
I was just thinking of a driver in general, as it's a home made dive light.

D
defied
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Re: big changes for Dusty's light

Post by defied »

Like so: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.s020073

Not sure what your voltage requirements are (lion, Lipo, fe, what have you).

D
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