Pony bottle - replacement for, or in addition to octo?

[SSpiffyDiver]

Discuss and dispute.

[Dusty2]

EWWW, Toxic subject!

I would say in addition to. But there are a lot of situations where that could be argued.

[spatman]

A pony Is generally to bail you out whereas an octo is to bail your buddy out.

[McGlencoe]

Thats the way it was explained to me: Pony is yours and only yours, let them take your secondary or pull your primary from your mouth, but the pony is yours and yours alone.

[Dusty2]

That's why my pony reg is on my necklace. If the sh*& hits the fan my pony reg is only a couple of inches from my mouth and I know right where it is. No groping in the dark and it's exactly the same reg as my secondary.

[Dusty2]

I am frequently diving with people that I don't know and even if I weren't I am not betting my life on that other person being there when I let out that last breath and there is nothing there when I try to inhale. This is especially true when the other guy has a camera. The time it takes to take one photo could cost you your life.

[Jimothy]

Bailout bottle is for only me, hung on a necklace.

[CaptnJack]

A pony Is generally to bail you out whereas an octo is to bail your buddy out.

Yeah and 3 regs ends up being a pita.

Adequate gas management, long hose, and a buddy work better for me than a pony.

[GearHead]

A slung pony bottle is a completely independent gas source. Its second stage is separate from your necklaced backup reg or octo, and bungied to the bottle.

A pony bottle that is bracketed to your main cylinder presents different issues for carrying its associated regulator.

[Paulicarp]

Bailout bottle is for only me, hung on a necklace.

me too. that's why my bail out bottle is a 119 on an isolated manifold connected to my primary 119, with the reg on a necklace. No worries. And just in case- my teammate always has enough to get me to the surface or else we both die.

[LCF]

I like simple. A pony bottle brings with it a lot of questions (in addition to another first stage). How do you mount it? How do you monitor it? Do you donate the pony or your primary? How big a pony do you need?

To me, dives divide into two classes. There are simple dives, where I could even make it to the surface on my own if I had to, in the event of a catastrophic equipment failure. For such dives, no matter with whom I do them, a single tank with an octo is fine. There are deeper dives, where a catastrophic failure would be decidedly unpleasant, and for those, I prefer my go-to backup, which is a good buddy who maintains gas reserves and practices air-sharing (and I have lots of those buddies). Failing that, a small set of doubles gives me almost perfect redundancy and remains very simple.

[Tom Nic]

Discuss and dispute.

Well done everyone!

A great run through of the options and the individual reasons behind the personal preferences.

[kitsapdiver]

I tend to be in the camp of good gas planning, buddy practice, and long hose and bungied back up only. If more redundancy is required than I wear doubles (as it turns out I'm almost exclusively in doubles because I don't maintain a singles reg setup, although I should).

That being said the couple of things I think should be considered by someone contemplating a pony bottle inclue:

1. Where will the pony bottle mounted. If it's on the back can the tank valve be reached? With an octo you knwo the gas source is on because you've been breathing from that first stage. With a bottle that is slung you can easily reach the valve and reg. Good pre-dive practices can mitigate this, but unfortunately mistakes do happen.

2. If the tank is a "slung" pony then what is the gas sharing protocol? Would you donate the primary and then go to the pony? Is that practiced that is a lot of work steps to restore your breathing gas.

3. What is the size of the pony. Gas planning shows that you need more gas than most might realize for emergency planning. In an emergency it's likely that the team will be breathing heavier and experience some confusion before they start their accent using valuable gas.

For my money, and your mileage my vary, the most apporpriate response is to maintain the octo, and have a "slung" buddy bottle. This method maintains emergency breathing gas on a regulator that is known to be on, and capable of providing gas. The "buddy bottle" offers redundant gas source, and could be handed off in the case a buddy has an OOG experience. This is a conservative and versitile setup.

[Jeff Pack]

Myself, I dont like the term pony bottle, because its ambiguous in definition and use. everyone knows what one is, but how its used is always debated. Some people use them in place of an octo, some in addition to an octo, and even some to extend their air supply. Some sling them, some mount them.

I'm with Austin, my bail out bottles are slung, independent, and can be given to a buddy if needed. In addition, I even have bc connections on all my bail out tanks.

[kitsapdiver]

Jeff brings up a good point terminology is kind of ambiguous! Here areal e assumptions I make when I hear the term pony bottle.

1. The bottle is only to be used in case of an emergency!
2. The bottle contains a gas that is suitable at your deepest depth!
3. The bottle is not being used to accelerate decompression!

If a bottle is being used to extend bottom time I traditionally use the term stage bottle!

If a bottle is being used to accelerate decompression I use the term deco bottle

I have heard cave divers who elect to solo dive call an AL 80 they carry strictly for emergency gas as a buddy bottle! (Typically limiting penetration to 80 cubic feet)

I particularly like the last term and could see it being adapted to talk about a "slung" bottle for emergency gas, while a "pony bottle" referred to a bracket mounted spare cylinder! However, even these terms don't clarify if the octo has been replaced!