Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

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mpspringer
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Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by mpspringer » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:16 pm

CURRENT SETUP
I'm 5' 9", 210 lbs.
DSS Single Tank Rig w/ Medium Stainless Steel Plate
Torus 35 Wing
Single Piece Hogarthian Harness
Whites Tech Dry Suit

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Overall, I am very happy with this streamlined setup. The simplicity and ease-of-use is fantastic. However, there are some things which just do not "feel right". I love to hike and my favorite backpack brand is Arc'teryx. Their shoulder harness system is simply amazing and very comfortable. The shoulder straps angle a bit into your chest and combined with an adjustable sternum strap, I can hardly feel the straps at all. I wish I could say the same with my Single Piece Hog Harness… Unfortunately, it always feels like its gauging into my arm pits and does limit the overall range of motion for my arms. Adjusting and loosing the harness does not help.

I'm seriously considering changing the harness to a Hollis Elite 2 or a Dive Rite TransPlate Harness.
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They both utilize an adjustable sternum strap. The shoulder straps appear to align more vertical down thru the chest area, similar to a backpack style harness.

My concern with changing harness styles is diverting from the pure single strap to the addition of clips and other buckles. Is this really a valid concern for a rec diver who has an eye on going tech? Would a change in harness's help with making the diving experience more comfortable?

Your thoughts and input are appreciated!

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spatman
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by spatman » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:01 pm

The shoulder straps shouldn't dig in at all, and in fact should be a tad loose. What really keeps the rig snug and on you are the crotch and waist straps.

I'm sure there's someone locally who can take at your rig and help get you more comfortable in it.
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kdupreez
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by kdupreez » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:05 pm

I think Spatty hit it on the head.. Your harness and plate is maybe not setup or sized for optimum fit and comfort.
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by Nwcid » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:57 pm

GF and I started with the Dive Right style straps thinking they would be better. Of course we were new and it seemed to be a happy medium going from the Jackets we used in class and see "everyone" else using.

After about 50 dives got set up with one HOG straps. There is no way you could get me to go back to the adjustable ones.

Chat with the guys that know how to set these up right.
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Jeff Pack
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by Jeff Pack » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:26 pm

You can be hogarthian, and still have a chest strap.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by GearHead » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:01 am

mpspringer wrote:CURRENT SETUP
I'm 5' 9", 210 lbs.
DSS Single Tank Rig w/ Medium Stainless Steel Plate


You might be more comfortable with the DSS Large Stainless Steel Plate. That would lower and widen the bottom connections of the shoulder straps to the backplate. It will also lower your waist belt and place it it a better position to transfer weight of the rig to your hips, similar to a good backpacking harness.

Once the harness is properly adjusted, it is comfortable to carry on land and wear in the water. The continuous webbing will be more streamlined than one with quick releases and chest straps. Also very important - it leaves room to attach your backup light(s).

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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by GearHead » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:08 am

This link shows a good harness setup.

http://www.baue.org/faq/backplate_sizin ... images.php

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spatman
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by spatman » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:50 am

GearHead wrote:You might be more comfortable with the DSS Large Stainless Steel Plate. That would lower and widen the bottom connections of the shoulder straps to the backplate. It will also lower your waist belt and place it it a better position to transfer weight of the rig to your hips, similar to a good backpacking harness.


Not a good idea because the bottom of the plate will likely dig into the lower back/upper hips of a diver under 6'. I'm 6' and successfully dived a DSS medium plate for several years.
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CaptnJack
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by CaptnJack » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:38 am

I have a sternum strap on my sidemount rig because its pretty much essential due to the way the straps route straight down to the waist belt (not to the rear). Its terrible honestly, the drysuit inflator and infator hose is right "there" in the middle of everything and overall its a pita.

I do not have a sternum strap on my "hogarthian" rig and its not needed at all. As others have mentioned, the crotch strap is a key element in getting the shoulder straps to snug up and work right. The other piece is that your chest Drings are probably too low. They shouldn't be digging into your armpits at all, they go high up on your collar bones providing much better access with less (no) gouging.

I'm not diving for the moment but someone else can definitely meet with you and get you setup better, after a couple dives you might like it as it was designed.
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by Dusty2 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:30 am

I'm going to play the devils advocate here since you have heard nothing about the gear you asked about. First let me say that for simplicity, low cost, and minimal failure points you can't beat the standard hog setup. However it is not the only rig in the world that works.

I wear the OMS comfort harness and like it a lot. It is very much like the ones you are looking at. I have litterally hundreds of dives on my rig and have never had any "failures. If your doing strictly rec diving I see nothing wrong with the extra adjustability and it is highly unlikely that the extra "failure points" will ever come into play. If they were unsafe there wouldn't be manufacturers making them.

Having said that let me say that if your going tech or caving I would stick with the hog setup because the quick releases make adopting the "standard gear setup" almost impossible and you will more than likely find that your instructors will balk at the non standard approach. In these environments there are very good reasons for why they do what they do and your safety is one of them.

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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by CaptnJack » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:58 am

My sidemount rig looks pretty similar to the Hollis version above. (it is made by Hollis) There's stupid useless padding, a sternum strap, 2 drings, another ring thing, a huge plastic buckle, a loose piece of strap since the buckle is adjustable. Honestly its a ton of superfluous crap.

If you really wanted a sternum strap I would use a single triglide on each side of your hogarthian straps with a peice of cord and a bolt snap to attach them to each other. 4 or 5mm cord makes a much better sternum strap (vs webbing) since it doesn't interfer with a drysuit inflator quite so bad (it still does, just not so bad).
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by mpspringer » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:56 am

Lot's of good feedback here. In the mean time, I'll try and adjust the straps again to see if it helps with the constriction in the shoulder/arm pit area.

If you really wanted a sternum strap I would use a single triglide on each side of your hogarthian straps with a peice of cord and a bolt snap to attach them to each other. 4 or 5mm cord makes a much better sternum strap (vs webbing) since it doesn't interfer with a drysuit inflator quite so bad (it still does, just not so bad).


This concept sounds functional, yet not very adjustable. I have a vague image of the setup in my head, but to clarify can you provide any pictures of the setup ?
(harness strap)(triglide)(4mm cord) (double end bolt snap) (4mm cord) (triglide)(harness strap) ~ correct??

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Jeff Pack
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by Jeff Pack » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:32 pm

Dive Rite makes an adjustable chest strap, and you can get a tri glide that will go on 2in webbing(DSS) with a 1in offset slot for a chest strap.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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CaptnJack
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by CaptnJack » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:46 pm

mpspringer wrote:Lot's of good feedback here. In the mean time, I'll try and adjust the straps again to see if it helps with the constriction in the shoulder/arm pit area.


Not the strap length, the position of the chest dring triglide is frequently too low and then jams in your armpit. Or the webbing is too stiff.

mpspringer wrote:
If you really wanted a sternum strap I would use a single triglide on each side of your hogarthian straps with a peice of cord and a bolt snap to attach them to each other. 4 or 5mm cord makes a much better sternum strap (vs webbing) since it doesn't interfer with a drysuit inflator quite so bad (it still does, just not so bad).


This concept sounds functional, yet not very adjustable. I have a vague image of the setup in my head, but to clarify can you provide any pictures of the setup ?
(harness strap)(triglide)(4mm cord) (double end bolt snap) (4mm cord) (triglide)(harness strap) ~ correct??


Mine is made out of 3/8" bungie, but that's on a hollis sidemount rig. It won't be pulling the straps out of your armpits (while walking etc) like you want. To make one out of cord just put the cord underneath the triglide and tie on knot in it on the outside edge to keep it from slipping back through. Make a loop of cord on the non-snap side. It won't be adjustable, just get the length right then final tie the knot holding it. I don't see why you need adjustable anyway, drysuit and undies don't vary enough to matter.

The big problem with backpack style sternum strap is the buckles end up pushing drysuit inflators or they get hooked on the BC hose collar and pop the hose off the inflator. You go to push the button and get water inside, you go to hook it back up and end up jamming the hose into buckles and crap. The advantage of the corded version is there's less junk in/around the inflator. Less is still more than no sternum strap at all of course.
cord under triglide.JPG
cord under triglide.JPG (7.74 KiB) Viewed 1510 times
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mpspringer
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by mpspringer » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:52 pm

So would the Bolt Snap, snap into the triglide located on the opposite 2" strap?

(harness strap)(triglide)(4mm cord) (single end bolt snap) (triglide)(harness strap) ~ correct??

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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by WaGigKpn » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:04 pm

I dive the Dive Rite harness. Very adjustable and i love the simplicity. I dont use a plate of any kind,it is all nylon. It is rugged, simple and streamlined. I recommend it.

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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by CaptnJack » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:10 pm

mpspringer wrote:So would the Bolt Snap, snap into the triglide located on the opposite 2" strap?

(harness strap)(triglide)(4mm cord) (single end bolt snap) (triglide)(harness strap) ~ correct??


No you need a loop of cord to clip into.

2 triglides
2ft of cord or possibly bungie (enough + knots)
8-10" for the snap side and 4" loop on the opposite side
1 small boltsnap

For the price you might as well try it. If you don't like it reuse the boltsnap + triglides elsewhere and you're only out 2ft of cord.
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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by Paulicarp » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:40 am

mpspringer,
I'm 5'9" and I started diving with DSS setup like yours but with a large plate. you're welcome to borrow it if you want to compare the large vs. medium. Hogarthian isn't the be-all and end-all of gear configurations, but from your posts, I'm wondering if you've been taught how to set it up and adjust it properly, and why? There are lots of reasons why and how that aren't readily appearant just by looking at it. If you're able to make it up to muk, I'd be happy to share my 2psi sometime.

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Re: Hogarthian Harness Straps vs...

Post by LowDrag » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:43 am

I bought a Hollis Elite 2, AL BP and S38 wing setup for my wife. The straps are sewn together in a couple of different places making adjustment of the straps very limited. I went to a Hogarthian harness on it and took it over for myself. I was having issues with it digging in like you are talking about to. A diver here on NWDC met me at a dive site and helped me get the rig set for me. It is set up right and now I absolutely love it. It is very comfortable to wear.

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