re-breathers

[H20doctor]

You stated there is no need for a rebreather shallower than 200 feet.

Once again, I'm asking, how many dives do you have between 130 and 199?

I have 2 dives to 137 feet ...

[pensacoladiver]

You stated there is no need for a rebreather shallower than 200 feet.

Once again, I'm asking, how many dives do you have between 130 and 199?

I have 2 dives to 137 feet ...

I know for a fact that one of them was on the "Miracle of Life"

[H20doctor]

You stated there is no need for a rebreather shallower than 200 feet.

Once again, I'm asking, how many dives do you have between 130 and 199?

I have 2 dives to 137 feet ...

I know for a fact that one of them was on the "Miracle of Life"

bottle field Mukilteo.... and some florida stuff... Man this thread Has Some Heat to it ... , Im staying outta Da Kitchen

[kdupreez]

I'm going to stand up for Marshall a bit here. Not for his actions but for the person.

I know him pretty well and he is cool kid and a lot of love passion and enthusiasm for the sport we all love.

Many of the experienced divers started out green and eager to share preconceived ideals they were imprinted with during class or what their buddies or instructors have brainwashed them with.

Many of us, hell even myself included had a lot of non practical experience knowledge and "knew it all" based on what our idols have said and done and therefore must be gospel.

So I think the point has been made and I ask we cut the kid some slack. I have sent him a PM and explained the NWDC rules of the road.. This not scubaboard and majority of people here actually dive.

He will be in PNW in early May and I'll drag him down to the club dive so y'all can haze him a bit and we can all have some fun together.

He is a good kid that will give you the shirt if his back and he has a lot of potential and is super excited and enthused about the sport.

[Tangfish]

This conversation makes me glad to be diving so many AL80s lately ;p

Too much thinking about gear and training makes me forget about why I fell in love with diving in the first place. Back to the basics, baby.

[LCF]

In the 8 years I have been diving, I have read as much as I can get my hands on about everything related to diving, and in particular, I have read everything available (and often some things that were never made public, but were shared with me) about diving accidents. One of the things I have found most unnerving about reebreather accidents is that they not infrequently occur with VERY experienced people, and also not infrequently occur in relatively benign conditions (shallow water, good via, etc.). If these accidents are ever explained, the explanations are never shared with the public, so one is left with a bit of apprehension about how the combination of a very competent diver and a somewhat complex device has led to a death.

I attended the GUE Conference in Catalina a couple of years ago, where Michael Menduno (for those of you who don't know who he is, he published the first-ever tech diving magazine, many years ago) presented a talk on the results of the RB3 conference in Florida on rebreather safety. One of the major conclusions of that forum was that many, if not the majority of rebreather accidents were due to pilot error -- error in assembly, error in checking, or error in execution. At that time, he challenged GUE, as an organization known for emphasis on procedures and on safety, to develop a CCR diving program, and JJ stood up and basically said, "No way.". Obviously, rising helium prices and the Mars project (where exhaled bubbles are visibly damaging the wreck) have changed this. It does seem, from what Mr. Menduno presented, as though many of the risks of CCR diving can be avoided by meticulous attention to checklists, and self-discipline on maintaining the gear.

But as someone who has audited a CCR class and been fortunate enough to attend several "try" days, and to play with a Meg clone in the Red Sea, I'll tell you that in MY opinion (for the little it's worth) diving CCR in shallow water is a major PITA. Not only do you have setup and breakdown, as Koos mentioned, but buoyancy on a CCR in shallow water is very annoying.

Josh bought his rebreather because his diving had a goal. He knew what it was from day one, and he got there. The rebreather was part of the plan. (And by the way, this thread makes me laugh a little, because Josh and I got into it regularly a few years back, until we did a dive together and went out for beers, and although I don't see him very often, I now count him as a valued friend.)

[jeffgerritsen]

Hum..., problems maintaining buoyancy in the shallows? I have no problem maintaining buoyancy with a .5 PO2 at 5 fsw on my Meg!

Question for "It's DUE", where are you getting He for $.70 a cu ft? I work at a local dive shop and our cost for He is $.81 a ft for industrial and $1.00 a ft for UHP? I believe Tacoma scuba price for He is $1.55 a cuft.

Otherwise this thread is amusing. I'll think ill pop another bag of

[pensacoladiver]

Rebreather diving is not for those who lack the ability to maintain attention to detail.

I'll even take it a step further... Neither is open circuit tech diving.

Deadly pilot error happens on OC as well. In the last 2 years, I know of 2 deaths from Ox tox on open circuit.

One was a tech instructor breathing 36 percent on the hydro Atlantic wreck at 175 feet.

The other died sucking on a bottle of 100 percent 80 feet ish deep back in a cave.

Absolutely no reason for either one of these OC deaths to happen. Complacency was the reason.

[rjw]

Hum..., problems maintaining buoyancy in the shallows? I have no problem maintaining buoyancy with a .5 PO2 at 5 fsw on my Meg!

Good for you.

[Desert Diver]

Didn't mean to cause an issue by saying that, but I also haven't dove long/at all. Not ever plane that fails causes everyone on board to die either. I actually don't know much about rebreathing, but the way I have understood the argument against is that everything is fine until it isn't anymore, then without warning you die. So I am not really interested when nitrox seems to aleaviate some of the same deco requirement without the danger?

Moist air would be nice. The dehydration, as I have argued before, does cause an increase danger is DCS.

When I said I am really not interested in deep, it's because I am really not interested. I will say that I don't like deep so much that when an instructor stated that I should take the advanced class right after the open water class, that I took a pause because there is a deep dive requirement for that. Now, I am really hoping that once I get very comfortable at no deeper than 60 feet (that's what I think I will be comfortable at), I hope I change my mind. Because it looks interesting, and scary and uncomfortable for me.

So my question for the rebreather is this, do you get that much more time without deco requirements as nitrox? And how? I know I should just go pull up some information on the internet, but I figured you guys could help. There is a balance between nitrogen and oxygen. You decrease the nitrogen in the mix you have less nitrogen ingassing. Which makes sense, but I am not sure if they go over this in class, I am sure they do, but you add oxygen and at pressure that's actually more dangerous. So with a rebreather how are you overcoming this fact? Honest question. Basically is it really worth the money over nitrox? That's my question.

Thanks for the attempt to compare this to flying, but just didn't resonate. I always say to each his own. I am not knocking anyone for wanting to use one. Just wondering what the bonus is.

I'm not a rebreather diver but if you have studied what nitrox can do for you you would understand that you can use more O2 in the mix when you are shallower. When I mix nitrox I have to mix it with a low enough O2 level to minimize the danger of oxtox at the maximum depth I might go to on that tank. So 32% down to 111 feet or 130 feet if you will accept the risk of 1.6 ppo. If we were staying at a shallower level we could put in more O2 and less nitrogen. For instance if our dives were limited to 60 feet we could use 50% oxygen and never think about decompression for a long time. The rebreather is capable of supplying an optimum mix at all depths. They don't usually push the ppo2 limit as close as OC divers because the danger of Oxtox goes up with time at a partial pressure of oxygen, but if they decide they want to have a PPO2 of 1.2 the device can deliver that for the entire dive so they get the minimum level of nitrogen or helium buildup in their body and as they ascend they are in essence decompressing on high O2 levels and then when they reach 20 feet they might run the PPO2 way high to speed decompression even further. OC decompression divers can do this a little by switching to a tank that has more O2 in it as they ascend but how many tanks can you carry and keep track of.

One other thing to remember is that OC divers occasionally have everything alright until suddenly it isn't also. One of the causes of this can be carbon monoxide in the mix!

Not a be-reaver diver, not going to be, but they have a bunch of advantages.

[RenaB]

Oh, yes, I see the advantages.

[It's DUE!]

Hum..., problems maintaining buoyancy in the shallows? I have no problem maintaining buoyancy with a .5 PO2 at 5 fsw on my Meg!

Question for "It's DUE", where are you getting He for $.70 a cu ft? I work at a local dive shop and our cost for He is $.81 a ft for industrial and $1.00 a ft for UHP? I believe Tacoma scuba price for He is $1.55 a cuft.

Otherwise this thread is amusing. I'll think ill pop another bag of

5th Dimension and Sound Aquatic both have .70/ft

[kdupreez]

I believe 5th Dimension Scuba in West Seattle is $0.60 retail for helium per cubic foot.

http://fifthd.com/gas-pricing

[Jeff Pack]

Geez, I should just haul some big tanks up there, thats cheaper than I can get it.

[GearHead]

This has been a useful thread, even with all the usual goofy side comments.

I've been considering whether a rebreather might make sense, as I occasionally dive with others using them. Interestingly enough, gas supply is not usually the limiting factor for dive length or depth for recreational diving in the Salish Sea. I'm frequently able to go 60 to 70 minutes on one of my HP 119s before we need to get back on the boat or someone is cold or tired.

I already knew about the different methods & issues with buoyancy control. What I didn't realize was the extent of both the pre- and post-dive procedures to safely maintain the equipment. Given that, I will hold off on getting a 'breather until I have a specific project that requires one. I think a scooter will be a lot more fun, anyway.

[archisgore]

I haven't read the entire thread because, it's too long, and frankly, boring. However, I am a big fan of DUE, and logged in to extend my support to him!

Also that profile picture... something about it just makes me want to value every word "It's DUE" drops here.

[archisgore]

Sorry. I take that back. I just read the thread. I didn't know who DUE was. :-) I still like the kid. Great kid. What Koos said. :-)

I thought "It's DUE" was someone else.