Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

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Tom Nic
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Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by Tom Nic » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:41 am

This is split off from my rude hi-jacking of Cardiver's previous thread.... again, my apologies to Ron.

Jeremy wrote:Do you dive a BP/W Tom?

I seriously need to get down for a Thursday dive with you guys


Yes you do, and no I don't - yet.

It is simple laziness and reluctance to spend the $400, and the fact that my old beater Zeagle (7+ years) is still holding together.

BTW - I'll be in Neah Bay with a bunch of REEF critter crazies / geeks same time you are - staying at WinterSummer Inn in Clallam Bay. Feel free to stop by and say howdy and listen to some critter Latin some evening or give us a shout on the dock.

I am leaning toward a DSS Torus 35 or the LCD 40 for a wing.

I like the Hog 32, but I've seen buddies with the 32 fully inflated barely keeping their head above water surface swimming in a chop. Granted, they were probably over-weighted, (or come to think of it they may have been slinging an 80) but I am thinking that the little extra lift is a good thing. I am not a small guy :axe: and will occasionally sling a small bottle, all the way to a 40 or even an 80, so 32 seems a bit small. I wear 32 to 38 lbs of weight depending on whether I'm in Summer undies or my gargantuan Weezle Extreme Plus. I know I'll drop a couple of pounds going from the Zeagle to the BP/W.

I already own a DUI weight and trim harness.

Also, I love DSS's idea of their weight plates on the backplate. Less weight on the belt to mess with seems like a good idea, and seems like it would make it easier to trim out.
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60south
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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by 60south » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:07 am

I'll put in a quick plug for the Oxycheq 40# Mach V Extreme wing. It's super tough and has worked well with the heavy HP steel 130+pony configuration that I often use. It also has an integrated STA, keeping the tank close to the backplate. Golem Gear and Cave Adventurers sell these.

I already own a DUI weight and trim harness.


+1 for the DUI weight system.

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Tom Nic
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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by Tom Nic » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:18 am

60south wrote:I'll put in a quick plug for the Oxycheq 40# Mach V Extreme wing. It's super tough and has worked well with the heavy HP steel 130+pony configuration that I often use. It also has an integrated STA, keeping the tank close to the backplate. Golem Gear and Cave Adventurers sell these.

I already own a DUI weight and trim harness.


+1 for the DUI weight system.


Thanks!

I'll check them out.
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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by mancub » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:20 am

Tom

I have an Oxycheq mach V 30#, and my buddy "Magoi" has the 40#. Great wings. Very slim and trim in the water. Rumor has it both wings have the same size bladder inside, just a different size stitched cordura outer. Not that that matters much, anywho, it has a zipper to remove/clean inside too. I run mine without a single tank adapter and have no noticeable tank flop side to side.

IMO it's between the Oxy and the DSS. Both amazing wings that are bomb-proof and receive rave reviews. Can't go wrong. Golem and Hog are nice, but I just don't like how much they "taco" up around the tank (at least on my friends who have them).

Good luck gear hunting! Oh, how I love to do that :).

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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by ljjames » Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:59 pm

I love my halcyon 30lb single wing. I use it on any size singles and on megalodon CCR.

I had a set couple sets of plate weights that i used for a while. The thing i don't like about them is that they make your backplate less versatile, and also just plain heavy to lug around.
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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by spatman » Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:18 pm

ljjames wrote:The thing i don't like about them is that they make your backplate less versatile, and also just plain heavy to lug around.


+1. I was glad to get rid of those plates just for ease of loading and unloading my gear. As for trimming out better with/out the plates, I didn't notice a damn bit of difference. YMMV.
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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by Tom Nic » Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:34 pm

spatman wrote:
ljjames wrote:The thing i don't like about them is that they make your backplate less versatile, and also just plain heavy to lug around.


+1. I was glad to get rid of those plates just for ease of loading and unloading my gear. As for trimming out better with/out the plates, I didn't notice a damn bit of difference. YMMV.


Interesting. I appreciate the input.

Laura - can you explain the "less versatile"? I'm not sure I understand. Heavy I get! :)
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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by ljjames » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:13 pm

Apologies ahead of time for the Laura Logic:

I had two sets of plate weights, a 8lb set for my CCR and an 11lb set for my regular kit, and a weighted STA that you couldn't remove the weight from.

I had to swap out the 11 for the 8 when diving the CCR in salt water (and not use the STA)

what this also meant was that to dive the CCR in fresh water with big video light canister pack i had to remove the plates otherwise i'd be overweighted.

The most versatile system in my opinion is a backplate with a STA that can be used either weighted or unweighted (with weight often around 8 lbs-ish) and a couple of pockets that can hold up to 5 lbs each (the key there being 'up to', meaning i can really dial in my weighting based on water salinity, undergarments, extra kit (such as heavy video light battery pack, argon bottle, etc...) I have a little pouch on the lower cam strap for an extra bit of weight <up to 5lbs> in the event that I hand it out as a loaner singles kit (which in essence also tail weights the system a bit which can help new to trim folks feel a bit more comfy with feet up) or for some reason diving an Al tank.

If you need more weight, put it on a little weight belt.

You can remove these bits and pieces of weight, adjust them, move them around, and also hand them up to the boat or dock.

its all modular. I believe in using the tools for the job, I hate diving overweighted, even more so with CCR. that said any time i need a screwdriver to remove weights from my gear i'm less likely to swap things out and more likely to just roll with it. So basically with plate weights i was a lot more likely to say "f-it" and dive overweighted.

For a while I dove with a weighted STA and plate weights which left me with zero ditch-able weight, and basically no adjustable. I resisted the change over to the little pockets instead of weight plates but once I did, i became a believer. Oh yea, and the Cinch harness came out from halcyon which made the plate weights a no-go. I love my adjustable harness ;)

These days for recreational dives I like to have something like 6-10lbs ditch-able in form of pockets (or weight belt).

Truth be told I ended up with like a half a dozen plates so that i didn't have to swap any plate weights out etc... which was fine until i threw the wrong plate + STA in the bin. Now i have 1 aluminum plate and 1 SS plate, the aluminum stays on the CCR or doubles, the SS on whatever singles kit unless i'm traveling.
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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by LCF » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:28 pm

I personally don't like the weight plates, because they make the rig heavy to move around on the boat or into and out of the car. I use weight pockets on the cambands and put three pounds on each side, which does the same thing but is much more flexible.

I use 31 lbs of ballast, and have never had any problems keeping my head above water (unless flooded), but I admit I don't sling a bottle when diving single tank.

I like DSS because Tobin stands behind the stuff he makes. Oxycheq does NOT have that reputation at all; their customer support is all through their dealers, and they don't always back their dealers up. I got so mad at them when they dropped their vendors in the soup over the lights they put on the market that hadn't been adequately tested, and started failing (some never worked from the get-go) that I would never buy anything Oxycheq again, except that I have their oxygen analyzer already and have to buy the cells for it from them.
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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by GearHead » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:25 pm

I am leg heavy and need ballast high up to compensate. With a single tank, I use the 8 lb weight plates with my DSS backplate and Torus 35# wing. I normally carry a canister light and a pony bottle. Depending on which tank I'm using, I'll add 3 lbs onto a cam band.

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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by Grateful Diver » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:34 am

Some advice if you're thinking the DSS route ... consider whether you want to buy what YOU want to buy or what Tobin wants to sell you. I've been using a Torus 35 wing since before they were commercially available ... I used to be one of his field testers for new equipment ... and I have close to 1300 dives on my Torus wing. That speaks volumes for its durability. However, every time I've recommended DSS wings to someone they come back with the same story about Tobin putting them through an inquisition before he'll sell them one. That's called "customer service" if you want or need the help selecting the wing you want to buy. It's called a real pain in the arse if you know what you want and need to talk him into selling it to you. The last person I made a recommendation to got told that in order to meet Tobin's rigid specifications for "just the right wing", he'd need to buy two ... one each for cold water and warm water diving.

Horse biscuits ... besides all the diving it's done in Puget Sound, my Torus 35's made several trips to Indonesia, been to the Maldives, Cozumel, Bonaire, Hawaii, and Roatan. I believe those qualify as "warm-water" dives, and I did not struggle diving it there.

Customer service can be a good thing ... but not everyone wants to be treated like they need "Big Brother" telling them exactly what product they should buy. If you don't want "help" and you want a DSS wing, I recommend you don't go to DSS directly, but purchase one from a local dealer ...

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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by Grateful Diver » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:39 am

LCF wrote:I like DSS because Tobin stands behind the stuff he makes. Oxycheq does NOT have that reputation at all; their customer support is all through their dealers, and they don't always back their dealers up. I got so mad at them when they dropped their vendors in the soup over the lights they put on the market that hadn't been adequately tested, and started failing (some never worked from the get-go) that I would never buy anything Oxycheq again, except that I have their oxygen analyzer already and have to buy the cells for it from them.


I used to use a lot of Oxycheq products, but after the light debacle ... when Patrick's answer to not standing behind his products amounted to telling me to take my business elsewhere ... that's exactly what I've done. I will never ... ever ... buy another Oxycheq product. Not because of quality issues, but because their customer service sucks.

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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by LCF » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:44 am

Tobin can be gruff, but he really does have at heart the desire to make sure that a diver gets gear from him that that diver will be happy with. He gets a lot of calls from folks who have no idea what they need, and a few from people who are adamant that they need something he knows darned well they won't be happy with. When we referred our best friends to him for gear, I was very pleased that he would not sell it to them until they gave him the information he wanted to determine what they needed.

If you don't like that approach, buy from a dealer. Bubbles Below sells DSS, and I believe they are the only dealer in Washington State.
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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by CaptnJack » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:51 am

Another thumbs down for Oxycheq customer service. They don't stand behind squat and left me high and dry on a dud CO analyzer.

Tobin makes good wings but as Bob pointed out, God help you if you disagree with Tobin about anything. He's the most opinionated SOB on the planet. I have ordered from the DSS online store, which works well. But never a bought one of his wings. I have 2 halcyon explorer single tanks wings ("40" lbs although that seems a bit generous and they aren't noticeably bigger than other 32lb wings I've seen) that are going on 10yrs old and look great, never a hole either.

Laura nailed it with the modular weighting, I do the same with 2 pouches on the STA cam bands. Then the plate isn't some heavy beast trying to wrestle it around on a boat etc.

I would borrow a wing before buying honestly. You can borrow one of my halycon's if you'd like. I am in Port Orchard so you could pick it up on the way to Port Townsend sometime. Its a STA only wing so you'd need to take my STA with it if you don't have one already.
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Re: Singles Wing Configuration Discussion

Post by Grateful Diver » Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:06 am

LCF wrote:Tobin can be gruff, but he really does have at heart the desire to make sure that a diver gets gear from him that that diver will be happy with. He gets a lot of calls from folks who have no idea what they need, and a few from people who are adamant that they need something he knows darned well they won't be happy with. When we referred our best friends to him for gear, I was very pleased that he would not sell it to them until they gave him the information he wanted to determine what they needed.

Not everyone wants or needs that level of "customer service". It often comes across as controlling ... in many ways not any different than the scuba store owner who knows more than you do what you want or need. Some people know what they want ... and believe it or not, some don't see their needs in exactly the same way that Tobin would. If people want that sort of help, great ... if they don't, then forcing it on them only amounts to being a "nanny"..

LCF wrote:If you don't like that approach, buy from a dealer. Bubbles Below sells DSS, and I believe they are the only dealer in Washington State.


Tacoma Scuba is a DSS dealer ...

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