looking for a singles wing ...

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Grateful Diver
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looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Grateful Diver » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:44 pm

My DSS Torus wing has finally died ... it's got a terminal case of leaks, and I've decided not to do business with DSS anymore, so I'm in the market for a replacement wing.

I'm looking for something in the 30-35 lb lift range ... preferably something that travels well. If any of you have a wing you're looking to sell, please let me know what it is. Otherwise, some recommendations would be helpful. I have some ideas what's out there, but won't kid myself that my knowledge is all-encompassing.

I'd prefer to get a used wing, since it'll ultimately just become a backup. Ironically, I just loaned out my Halcyon Eclipse for a couple weeks ... when I get it back that will become my primary singles wing. But I want a wing that I can use as both a backup and for travel ... the Eclipse is a bit bulky for tropical use.

Suggestions? Ideas? Offers? I'm open to them all ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Scubie Doo » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:06 pm

I have the Hollis S38. I really like it. However, it is a little larger than you are looking for. I also got an aluminum backplate for travel. I actually have two (not looking to sell one). But you are more than welcome to borrow one to try it. Just say the word.

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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Penopolypants » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:07 pm

I picked up a Hog wing super cheap a while ago when my DSS wing went tits up and I didn't want to deal with DSS either. Love the wing, hated the inflator valve (weird configuration) and had to shorten the hose when I replaced the inflator. I'm not selling it, just here to let you know in case you find one super cheap as well. Even so it was worth it, price wise.
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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Norris » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:08 pm

Penopolypants wrote:I picked up a Hog wing super cheap a while ago when my DSS wing went tits up and I didn't want to deal with DSS either. Love the wing, hated the inflator valve (weird configuration) and had to shorten the hose when I replaced the inflator. I'm not selling it, just here to let you know in case you find one super cheap as well. Even so it was worth it, price wise.

I use a HOG on my singles set and really like it.
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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Grateful Diver » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:40 pm

HOG is on my list of potential wings. I can easily replace the inflator and hose ... just pull the one off my old wing ...

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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by xBabyJesus » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:23 pm

The hogs at 32lbs of lift seemed marginal for cold water dry suit diving around here. I have an Eclipse 40 and the girl has an Apeks WTX3 (34lb lift) I would not want to go much smaller given my weight/lift calcs.

I've read that the Eclipse wings travel well if you unbolt them and roll them up. I personally am probably gonna pick up one of the DRIS Triana/aluminum plate combos for travel when they go on sale for $329 again:
http://www.diverightinscuba.com/catalog ... -3070.html

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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by spatman » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:27 pm

Norris wrote:
Penopolypants wrote:I picked up a Hog wing super cheap a while ago when my DSS wing went tits up and I didn't want to deal with DSS either. Love the wing, hated the inflator valve (weird configuration) and had to shorten the hose when I replaced the inflator. I'm not selling it, just here to let you know in case you find one super cheap as well. Even so it was worth it, price wise.

I use a HOG on my singles set and really like it.


+1 for the HOG. I don't miss my DSS at all and the price can't be beat.
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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by johndo88 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:10 am

PM forthcoming

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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by mz53480 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:40 pm

I would second the Hollis S38. I've had it for a few years. It's been great, no problems.
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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by LCF » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:46 pm

I'm really curious why so many people seem to be negative about the DSS stuff. I'll admit I'm a personal friend of Tobin's, but we have a bunch of his gear, and have encouraged students to buy it, and neither our stuff nor anything we know about our students' equipment has indicated to me that there are problems with it.

I like the DSS tank stabilizer better than the Hog one, but both work.

If I had to buy a new wing, I have to confess I'd buy a Halcyon one, although I hate their rubber hose. I'd buy it because you can custom design color and trim, and nobody else offers that.
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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Grateful Diver » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:39 am

It's not the stuff I dislike ... it's the owner. I dislike him so intensely that I refuse to support his company, regardless of how good his products happen to be.

I thought you knew this ... I'm hardly the only one in our area who feels that way, I tried explaining to him that his attitude was doing that to people years ago ... back when I thought him a friend. He told me he doesn't care. So be it ... now I don't either ...

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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by spatman » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:44 pm

Grateful Diver wrote:It's not the stuff I dislike ... it's the owner. I dislike him so intensely that I refuse to support his company, regardless of how good his products happen to be.

I thought you knew this ... I'm hardly the only one in our area who feels that way, I tried explaining to him that his attitude was doing that to people years ago ... back when I thought him a friend. He told me he doesn't care. So be it ... now I don't either ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)


+1. I never got along with him, and really disliked the way he handled himself in certain situations with paying customers. I had heard how wonderful he is and full of great advice and generosity, but it seems he is fickle about who sees that side of him.

Customer relations and public composure/persona play a big part in where I spend my money. Better to not be a public presence than to be a dick, imvho.
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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Penopolypants » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:15 pm

spatman wrote:
Grateful Diver wrote:It's not the stuff I dislike ... it's the owner. I dislike him so intensely that I refuse to support his company, regardless of how good his products happen to be.

I thought you knew this ... I'm hardly the only one in our area who feels that way, I tried explaining to him that his attitude was doing that to people years ago ... back when I thought him a friend. He told me he doesn't care. So be it ... now I don't either ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)


+1. I never got along with him, and really disliked the way he handled himself in certain situations with paying customers. I had heard how wonderful he is and full of great advice and generosity, but it seems he is fickle about who sees that side of him.

Customer relations and public composure/persona play a big part in where I spend my money. Better to not be a public presence than to be a dick, imvho.


Sadly, +2.
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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Peter Guy » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:27 am

While it is obvious some people have had negative interactions with DSS/Tobin, I do want to make it clear that not everyone has had that experience. To the contrary, my BUSINESS interactions with DSS/Tobin have been very professional, courteous and well, Business like. I have interacted with DSS as a single customer (including getting advice and repairs on wings I've purchased used) and as a representative for a local dive shop. At all times DSS/Tobin has been forthright, honest and prompt in all of the inter-actions -- something that I confess I am not able to say about ALL of my interactions with diving industry entities over the years.

I am honestly surprised at the response, limited though it might be, of those who have had negative business interactions with DSS/Tobin. That is so foreign to my experience that I wonder why.

Regarding my NON-BUSINESS experience with Tobin (the owner of DSS), let's just say it is "interesting" at times. But then there are several people who frequent this Board with whom I have also had "interesting" non-business/non-diving related experiences.

But to get back on-topic -- I have a HOG 32lb singles wing that is adequate and works although I much prefer my DSS wing when paired with a DSS plate. The reason is that the HOG wing has long camband slots which I assume are designed to be compatible with many different plates whereas the DSS wing and DSS plate are designed to work together. I also found that diving the HOG wing was not as good (I'm not sure I can find the right wording here) as the DSS 35lb Taurus wing. Perhaps it is just because I've dived it so long but the DSS wing just felt better/dove better than the HOG wing (and I switched to the HOG wing for 6 months or more when I sent my DSS wing in for repair/replacement and then was too lazy to switch back).

YMMV

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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Nwbrewer » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:26 am

Bob,

Why stop diving SM just becasue the water is warm? This should work really well or a single al80, plenty of lift.

http://www.diverightinscuba.com/catalog ... fgod1DEApw

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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by thechadmiller » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:11 pm

I'm looking for a singles wing too. Going to get my first BP/W setup and don't wanna screw up. Was considering the Hollis 38, but somebody at DRIS recommended the Dive Rite Rec wing. I'm a bit concerned about it not being a proper singles wing, but $$ wise, it's tempting with DRIS's package deals and loyalty points.

I currently dive w/ 24lbs on my jacket BC, and normally dive HP80s with a 19 pony. Is the 38 wing pushing it to be able to float my rig without the help of my drysuit?

Thanks for the advice and sorry for the BP/W newb-iness.

ps. I was also told I need a Spare-Air and should only dive split-fins. That is correct, no?

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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by GearHead » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:26 am

Nwbrewer wrote:Bob,

Why stop diving SM just becasue the water is warm? This should work really well or a single al80, plenty of lift.

http://www.diverightinscuba.com/catalog ... fgod1DEApw

:stir: :stir: :stir:

Though this is admittedly a bit of a sidetrack, I love diving my Stealth sidemount rig with a single Alu 80 in warm water. It's so wonderfully streamlined. I recently returned from a trip to Thailand, where I dove this way during a four day liveaboard cruise in the Similan Islands. Boat entries and exits were just as easy as with back mount. The boat boys hadn't seen this before (actually no one had), and let me gear up without 'help' except for occasionally assisting with my fins.

I carry the single tank on my left, with two regulator hoses coming off the first stage. The short hose for my backup comes straight up from he turret, goes around my neck and is held by a bungee necklace. The long hose is routed down along the tank to stash the excess under a retainer before coming back up and around my neck. I use a magnetic break-away to temporarily clip off the primary. I found that threading a 2 lb weight onto my right waist band kept me perfectly balanced under water.

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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Grateful Diver » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:50 am

thechadmiller wrote:I'm looking for a singles wing too. Going to get my first BP/W setup and don't wanna screw up. Was considering the Hollis 38, but somebody at DRIS recommended the Dive Rite Rec wing. I'm a bit concerned about it not being a proper singles wing, but $$ wise, it's tempting with DRIS's package deals and loyalty points.

I currently dive w/ 24lbs on my jacket BC, and normally dive HP80s with a 19 pony. Is the 38 wing pushing it to be able to float my rig without the help of my drysuit?

Thanks for the advice and sorry for the BP/W newb-iness.

ps. I was also told I need a Spare-Air and should only dive split-fins. That is correct, no?


As a former owner of one, I would not recommend a Rec wing for diving singles. First off, it's too big, even for cold water diving. Ignore the media hype, the reality is that so-called hybrid wings can be used for singles or doubles, as they claim ... but they're not efficient for either. Too many compromises, from the size of the wing (which is too big for singles and too small for many types of doubles), to the shape (singles and doubles wings have different shapes for a reason), to the fact that the center panel is neither shaped for singles nor doubles, so in a singles rig you will get some tacoing and in a doubles configuration you'll lose some lift capacity on 8-inch diameter cylinders because the panel's not big enough to accommodate them.

Yes, you can dive it ... I did, and there are people out there using them ... but the fact is that you're not getting the performance you will get with a wing that's dedicated to the type of diving you want to do. I recommend a wing that's designed for the configuration you want to dive ... and if you want to dive both singles and doubles, get a wing for each configuration that's designed for that purpose.

My first BP/W had a Rec wing which I used for two years ... probably close to 500 dives ... and liked it just fine until I tried a wing that was dedicated to diving singles. Once I realized the difference I ditched the Rec wing and bought a 30 lb Oxycheq wing ... and never regretted the decision.

To answer your second question, the Hollis 38 is more than adequate. Pretty much any dedicated singles wing in the 30-40 lb lift range will work. The lower range may cause you to ride low on the surface when using bigger or more negatively buoyant tanks, but they'll suffice. The higher range will ride you nicely on the surface swims, but won't be as streamlined during the dive. Something in the middle range ... which I consider the Hollis 38 to be ... balances those trade-offs nicely. There are some wings out there that I like better than others ... but a lot of that boils down to personal taste. DSS wings tend to come with super short inflator hoses (a carry-over from the cave diving mentality) which I did not like, and the first thing I did when I got mine was replace it with a longer hose. For the years and dives (more than 1300) I put on that wing I never regretted that decision.

If your mind's set on Dive Rite, I'd recommend looking at the Voyager ... 35 lbs lift. It's big enough for cold water diving, and compact enough for travel. It's also reasonably priced.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by thechadmiller » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:03 pm

Thanks Bob. Just picked a barely used Hollis 38 on eBay. I appreciate the help.
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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Tangfish » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:35 pm

I've had a Torus 35 forever and it just won't die. A little while ago the pull dump snapped off and I sent it down to Tobin and he was friendly and quick about fixing it and getting it back to me, which I appreciated. I will say that seeing some of his political posts and commentary on FB makes me kind of wonder why he doesn't put a tad more separation between himself personally and DSS - but as the business owner that's his prerogative and I can't really say it would be any different than sending business to someone whose political views and actions I abhor but just happen not to know about because they keep it more private or I'm not FB friends with them. Just my 2psi

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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by Grateful Diver » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:43 am

Everyone's entitled to their political views, and I have many friends who are nearly as right-wing as Tobin. What frosts me is that he chooses to take it to a very personal level. It's why I not only unfriended him ... which I do rarely ... but I blocked him so I don't even see what he has to say in reply to posts by mutual friends. His replies tend to get toxic in a hurry.

But that's not why I decided to stop doing business with him. That has more to do with his "I know better what you need than you do" attitude. If he has a product I want to buy and he refuses to sell it to me because he thinks I need something else, then he doesn't deserve my money ... I'm the only one who should have any say in how I choose to spend it. Also, try asking Tobin for a longer inflator hose on his wing sometime ... I have, and instead of telling me how much he'll charge and trying to accommodate, he launched into telling me why I didn't need it.

What I don't need is someone who thinks he knows more about my reasons for my gear choices than I do ...

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Re: looking for a singles wing ...

Post by spatman » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:23 am

Amen, Bob.
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