looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

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Dashrynn
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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby Dashrynn » Tue May 30, 2017 6:09 am

monk wrote:I did end up contacting Batteryspace after this thread posting and was given a quote for the "NiMH 24V 13Ah battery" rebuild for ~$410. I haven't moved on it yet since they said they wouldn't have stock until June to do it.

Dashrynn were you able to rebuild your own battery?



Yes, I did rebuild mine into a 25.9vdc battery in a 7s cell config with 56 lg b4 batteries. That's just a quick rebuild though. As soon as I can, I'm going to extend the battery case and make it a 1200watt battery with viper venom electronics and a SS brushed motor.
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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby monk » Mon May 29, 2017 9:05 pm

I did end up contacting Batteryspace after this thread posting and was given a quote for the "NiMH 24V 13Ah battery" rebuild for ~$410. I haven't moved on it yet since they said they wouldn't have stock until June to do it.

Dashrynn were you able to rebuild your own battery?

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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby Dashrynn » Mon May 29, 2017 8:42 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
monk wrote:I will also research the Lithium option.


Lithium basically doubles your costs but doesn't upgrade the motor or get you anymore speed, just longer runtime. The rest of us are going further and taking less time to get there lol


23 of these https://www.batterystore.com/shop-by-mf ... ts-energy/
(690 est)

or 36 of these http://www.batteryspace.com/lg-lithium- ... assed.aspx

and this http://www.batteryspace.com/protection- ... ttery.aspx
(330 est)

For my rebuild, using lithium instead of NIMH was actually cheaper. Even with charger, and protective circuitry.

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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby Dashrynn » Mon May 29, 2017 8:30 pm

I've been researching DPV rebuilds and new builds and came across this thread. Since I like you Bob, I have to say that you should be careful whom you order from, and that they are familiar with the battery current (amperage) demand.

If they used the black cell from batteryspace, it's not spec'd for the current need of the Sierra. The Sierra needs a battery that's capable of 20amps. The black cell from batteryspace has a short burst of 13 amps, not continued.
http://www.batteryspace.com/nimhrecharg ... ah1pc.aspx

A NIMH cell like this Saft cell would handle the capabilities. It's an "F" size cell, which should be the same as the Sierra. This cell also has a greater capacity. Not much though. Rabbit seems to have a handle on the requirements, but I would be weary of batteryspace as they aren't as great as previously thought. I've had issues with their nickel battery tabs being iron core (rusting on a battery not good) and not pure nickel resulting in a damaged stored cell.
https://www.batterystore.com/shop-by-mf ... ts-energy/
https://www.batterystore.com/content/Sp ... 0Sheet.pdf
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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby BillZ » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:14 am

I had Battery Space rebuild my Cuda pack and they were much cheaper than Rabbit. I paid $410 with return shipping as compared to $650. I have about 25 dives on the pack and it's had zero problems.

http://www.batteryspace.com/

Contact Raymond at sales@batteryspace.com and tell him what you have. Mine was the first battery that they rebuilt and it was a bit of back and forth sending pictures and asking questions. Others have sent their DPV batteries to him since then so it will probably be a lot less hassle.

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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby CaptnJack » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:28 am

monk wrote:I will also research the Lithium option.


Lithium basically doubles your costs but doesn't upgrade the motor or get you anymore speed, just longer runtime. The rest of us are going further and taking less time to get there lol
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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby Jeff Pack » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:33 pm

a lithium is essentially 2 stock Sierra batteries in one (26ah, versus 13ah).
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- I got a good squirt in my mouth
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- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby monk » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 am

I heard back and my battery and charger are both dead so I'm looking into options. Let me know how your Rabbit Tools experience works out. I will also research the Lithium option.

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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby Gregp » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:22 pm

http://www.volteq.com/switching-power-supply.html. You'd be surprised but in many cases batteries can be rejuvenated if done properly. Use an adjustable power supply and set your max current and max voltage. When the battery gets full, the current drops and the voltage stabilizes. You'll need the battery specs or charger to determine what current and voltage you should use.

I used the volteq to rejuvenate or charge many types of batteries, from lead-acid, NiMh and Li-ion.


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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby monk » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:14 pm

Thanks that is a good data point. My LEDs also not come on. I should solve the charger issue sooner than later I suppose. I was getting good run time out of the battery previously so hopefully it's still got some life left in it.

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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby Grateful Diver » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:29 pm

The charger was dead ... the red LED wouldn't even come on when I plugged it in. I changed out the fuse, and that clearly wasn't the problem. I purchased a new charger. But in the time it took, my battery discharged sufficiently to no longer register ... even with the new charger. I'm OK with that ... I knew more than a year ago that my battery was on its last legs. I purchased the scooter in 2006, and it's the original battery. I got more than a decade out of it ... which is a long time for a NiMH battery.

I sent it to Rabbit Tools on Wednesday ... they'll rebuild it for $485, and I'll have it back in a couple weeks. With proper care I should get another decade out of it. By then I'll be 75 years old, and probably won't be needing the scooter anymore ... :)

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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby monk » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:05 pm

I'm in the same situation. My Sierra NiMH charger also appeared to quit working (no LED's or charger fan kicking on when plugged/unplugged from the battery). I emailed DiveX and explained what was happening and that my battery had been hooked onto the charger for the last year or so and had not been used and received a response:

"From the date on the battery, I can tell you that it was manufactured in 2009 and NiMH batteries typically only last 2-4 years. Also, leaving the battery connected to the charger for any extended period of time, after charging is complete, can damage the cells.

When storing NiMH batteries, recharge at monthly intervals and do not leave connected to the tail or battery charger. NiMH batteries self-discharge at an aggressive rate so they require more maintenance, such as regular charging and occasional discharge.

I would venture to guess that your charger is not the main issue here. I believe your battery no longer has enough voltage for the charger to register that it is connected to a battery.

I recommend purchasing a new battery and charger."

I will probably confirm with them with a diagnostic but will likely be looking at different battery options.

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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby H20doctor » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:24 pm

edited : looks like i have batteries for a Cuda pack rebuild , and not a sierra battery .. the sierra Battery takes F cells , and the Cuda takes 2 stacks of sub C's .. So looks like you Have 2
call Rabbit tool directly and get quote from them , if you send them the top and bottom of the battery , they will build you a new one.
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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby Jeff Pack » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:05 pm

talk to Casey Offord about building a lithium pack. Can reuse the battery top of current battery.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby ohopdiver » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:03 am

Recent quote for Sierra 24v - Rabbit Tools rebuild (replace cells) is $485.

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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby fmerkel » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:43 pm

What's the operating voltage? You can try 'zapping' it. What likely happened, especially in older packs, is there is always a ...weakest....cell. High performance NiMh cells tend to have a higher discharge rate than lower performance (that's a generalization-quality matters the most).
As the cells discarge at some point the weakest cell goes to zero volts. The others continue and their discharge places a reverse current in the zero volt cell, effectively killing it. Now the chain is broken.

A 'zap' puts some brief high current through the pack and attempts to reverse this. Sometimes works but you still have a compromised pack, with at LEAST one weak cell, possible performance issues, lower capacity, and susceptible to higher self discharge.
Not too desirable in a DPV.
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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby ljjames » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:09 pm

have you checked with Rabbit Tools about doing a battery refurbish? i vaguely remember that being an option several years back.
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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby Grateful Diver » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:40 pm

Well, I guess I waited too long to buy a charger ... now my battery won't charge. Looks like I need a new battery. I don't use the scooter often enough anymore to justify paying $850 for a new battery. Does anyone have any less expensive alternatives for a NiMH battery for the Sierra?

Can't complain ... I got 11 years out of this one.

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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby fmerkel » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:06 pm

Not impossible, but not the conventional way to do it and makes it more complex without any advantage.

Li-on has a MAX charge level and gets nasty if much overcharged, or excessively discharged. NiXX simply "tops out" at ~1.5v/cell and the rest is shunted off as heat. As long as the heat is kept at a reasonable level the 'excess' is not much of a problem. You can do this very slowly (old style 15 hour 'dumb' chargers, or more quickly with more modern 'smart' chargers. The smart chargers need to get charge termination correct or they risk over or under charging the pack. A lot of the quality is in the intelligence of the charge termination.

FWIW, charging NiMh correctly is harder than Lithium. But if you get lithium wrong the consequences can be much more severe. I do have some old NiCad drills that the packs died. I replaced them with lithium-ion, no protection and no balancing. I'm pretty careful not to over charge or over discharge. After 3-4 years of occasional use I pulled the pack and put it though a discharge>charge cycle, then tested each cell. I was surprised to find them still in balance.

I built another pack for a weed whacker that is much more demanding, but I didn't have enough high discharge cells for this 24v pack so I paralleled 2 'medium discharge' cells and put this in as a single cell. But that cell has 2x the capacity of the others. It does have a balance tap and it still gets way out of whack with discharge/use. I have to charge it nice and slow, so the charger can deal with balancing it. If I push it too fast the balance mechanism can't keep up.
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Jeff Pack
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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby Jeff Pack » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:19 pm

Why cant it be balanced? Its multiple cells for each bank to make 25v total.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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fmerkel
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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby fmerkel » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:13 pm

Bob indicates this is an NiMh pack, balancing not possible.
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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby Jeff Pack » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:11 pm

I use the Hyperions, as they will charge most anything.

The downside, is the DiveX has the additional hookup for balance(its not a great balance, but better than none), Without balance leads, you wont equally charge all the cells in the pack. Its not too hard to put in balance leads, but requires disassembly of the pack.

Another option, since the Hyperions are a fairly advanced charger, you set TCS to like 90-95%, and have another charger cycle at .1A to act as a poor mans balancer. Thats what I do for packs that dont have balancer leads.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.

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fmerkel
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Re: looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby fmerkel » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:27 pm

If you can find someone with the same DPV it would be useful to test another known good charger. Depending on how the charger works it could be a battery problem.

If yu are pretty sure it's charger related this might well work. At 15S (15 cell in series) it should not have much issue with a 24v system.
Turnigy Accucel-6 80W 10A Balancer/Charger LiHV Capable
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-acc ... pable.html
Needs a power supply also but those are not hard to come by.
There are similar units with more power at a higher price.

I have one and we could test it out to see.
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looking for a NiMH battery charger for Dive-X Sierra

Postby Grateful Diver » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:10 pm

The charger for my Sierra scooter battery has decided it no longer wants to function. Won't even come on. I checked the switch and fuse, and they seem to be in order. But the thing's about 10 years old, and it's probably past its useful life. Anyway, a replacement charger at Dive-X is $155. I barely use this scooter anymore, and can't see paying that much for a charger unless I have to.

Does anyone have any suggestions for an alternative charger? Specs - Input: 115/230VAC, 60/50 Hz, 3/1.5A, Output 24VDC/4A Continuous

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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