THAT"S IT!!! new tank time

BUZO71 · Post by **BUZO71** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:19 pm

You know, I don't know how many times this has happened to me. Saturday evening I have the opportunity to dive and the time to dive but, no tank.

The shops are closed now so no chances of getting a rental...

I'm buying a tank..... I'm thinking a steel 119 or there abouts... any thoughts?

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:27 pm

As long as you do most of your diving in "civilization" where you have access to good high pressure fills get the largest HP tank you can carry "comfortably".

I love my HP 100's, but I wish I had bought 130's.

BUZO71 · Post by **BUZO71** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:32 pm

Tom Nic wrote:As long as you do most of your diving in "civilization" where you have access to good high pressure fills get the largest HP tank you can carry "comfortably".

I love my HP 100's, but I wish I had bought 130's.

I agree with that but I gues my hangup has been, do I wait for nitrox certification before buying a nitrox tank or just get an air tank???

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:40 pm

BUZO71 wrote:
Tom Nic wrote:As long as you do most of your diving in "civilization" where you have access to good high pressure fills get the largest HP tank you can carry "comfortably".

I love my HP 100's, but I wish I had bought 130's.
I agree with that but I gues my hangup has been, do I wait for nitrox certification before buying a nitrox tank or just get an air tank???

Buy the tanks, you can easily get them cleaned when and if you are ready to buy an all you can eat nitrox package.

kwbyron · Post by **kwbyron** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:48 pm

I love my 119, it's hp, so even if I can't get an hp fill, i still have 100cf of air. I'd say go nitrox, its worth it and if you get a bigger tank, you'll want longer bottom times.

sparky · Post by **sparky** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:47 pm

119s rule

I want to get two more i have two now and 2 Al 80s so in the mean time Buz if you and I hook for a dive I can bring the air

Sparky

BUZO71 · Post by **BUZO71** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:54 pm

sparky wrote:119s rule

I want to get two more i have two now and 2 Al 80s so in the mean time Buz if you and I hook for a dive I can bring the air

Sparky

That's a very generous offer and I may just take you up on that. I'd really like to try them out before I buy..... It might give me a better idea of what I need...

sparky · Post by **sparky** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:00 pm

You would be more then welcome to try mine any time

I have acess to a good compressor jay my dive budy has his own and fills our tanks. at least I know I get good fills at one place huh?

note to self but Jay lunch more offten lol

Sparky

Burntchef · Post by **Burntchef** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:35 pm

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/spo/467129236.html

might be worth the trip.

Cera · Post by **Cera** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:03 am

My husband and I have 100's and 80 (hp steel) and we don't even use our 100's (unless we each need two tanks for a boat dive or something) we come up with lots of air with the 80.. no point going bigger for us... [we usually do about 55 minute dives]
We also usually have a hard time getting 'true fills' for the HP tanks its pretty irritating.

here is an interesting website about tanks maybe it could answer some questions..
http://www.diveriteexpress.com/library/ ... l#pressure

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:26 pm

Tom Nic wrote:
BUZO71 wrote:
Tom Nic wrote:As long as you do most of your diving in "civilization" where you have access to good high pressure fills get the largest HP tank you can carry "comfortably".

I love my HP 100's, but I wish I had bought 130's.
I agree with that but I gues my hangup has been, do I wait for nitrox certification before buying a nitrox tank or just get an air tank???
Buy the tanks, you can easily get them cleaned when and if you are ready to buy an all you can eat nitrox package.

I totally agree with Tom. If you're only getting one or two tanks, get the largest ones you can carry. Lots of people talk about not needing more than 80cu' or 100cu' of gas, which is true and fine UNTIL the day comes when you DO need more gas... then you find yourself wishing you'd bought that larger tank.

The general rule-of-thumb is "never go deeper in feet, than you have cubic feet of gas on your back."
Examples:
130cu' tank = 130fsw deep max
100cu' tank = 100fsw deep max
80cu' tank = 80fsw deep max
... you get the point.

One suggestion I have is to get the gas management notes from Grateful Diver - he can email them to you. Read them (they're long but well worth the read), learn the math, and you'll see the reasons WHY we love our large tanks.

The 119s are great tanks, but consider the 130s if you're going to carry that large of a bottle anyway - what's an extra few pounds?

I love my 130s - best single tank for my type of diving.

One more thing: There is NOTHING wrong with surfacing with lots of air left!! I LOVE to surface with 1500psi left in my bottle!!

Tom Nic and I surfaced at Redondo at the end of a looong dive (both wearing 130s) with 1000psi and 1200psi respectively. When we surfaced we saw a diver in serious trouble and another diver in harms way in their attempt to rescue their drowning buddy. At the end of the rescue, Tom had something like 500psi left and I was down to 200-300psi.

Another time, Tom and I were diving with Seaslave in the San Juans - we surfaced into a cluster-**** of large waves & wind. Again, all 3 of us were on 130s and surfaced with roughly 1000psi... with all the waves crashing over our heads as we made our way to the boat, we were really glad to have "all that gas we didn't need for the dive" on our backs.

You never know what Murphy's got waiting for ya - I always bring more gas than my plan requires (including contingency planning) because Murphy is one strange SOB.

Cera · Post by **Cera** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:56 pm

I get what you are saying sounder, but if I am doing 50+ minute dives, and coming up with around 1400psi on my 80 why would I go bigger? My bladder certainly wouldn't let me stay down longer.. This is one of those discussions where, it totally depends on the person and the type of diving obviously... my aquantiance Pete uses 72's for the same reason, he doesn't need the extra air or weight. I wish I had more 80's!
Some people do need bigger tanks, but neither my husband nor I am one of them...

Bigger isn't always better, its what you do with IT that counts!

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:32 pm

...
Bigger isn't always better, its what you do with IT that counts!

[/quote]

Don't believe everything your husband tells you, Cera!

Cera · Post by **Cera** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:37 pm

OUCH! - I won't tell him you said that!

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:17 pm

Cera wrote:I get what you are saying sounder, but if I am doing 50+ minute dives, and coming up with around 1400psi on my 80 why would I go bigger? My bladder certainly wouldn't let me stay down longer.. This is one of those discussions where, it totally depends on the person and the type of diving obviously... my aquantiance Pete uses 72's for the same reason, he doesn't need the extra air or weight.

Not to get into a lecture, but maybe this will make sense as to why we (my wife and buddies) go bigger:

My wife doesn't breathe underwater - it's weird, but anyway... For most of the dives we do together an HP80 is a fine tank for her to carry for us. I usually run a 130 or 100 on these dives for us. If we go on a deeper or longer dive, she brings a 100 for us and I bring a 130 for us.

She doesn't need more than an 80 for any dive we do together. However, if I were to have a problem, I need her to have more gas, for me! That's why she has to bring a 100 instead of an 80 even though she doesn't need it.

1400psi in an 80 goes a lot faster than 1400psi in a 100 does, or especially 1400psi in a 130! In our opinion, being back on shore after a complete failure/loss of a buddy's gas STILL having 1000psi in the donating buddy's tank is a real win.

Basically, if you and I were to dive together below 80fsw, and you were on your 80, you wouldn't have enough gas to get me back to the surface, the way I'd like to get back to the surface. This is why I sling an extra Al40 even "just diving recreationally," when I'm buddying up with someone who doesn't have enough gas for me. Call me crazy!

Not knowing who he'll be diving with, and assuming he's only buying 1 or 2 tanks, larger will work for a wider range of buddies. Just to say it again... you should always have enough gas for you AND your buddy. Just ask Penepolypants - she didn't do anything wrong and ended up on The Camel's gas at the I-beams.

Aaaah gas management... Grateful Diver and BDub have ruined me.

As for size??? It does matter... anyone who says it doesn't is just trying to keep from hurting your feelings. :naka: It's kind of like the line "it's not you, it's me" ... when she tells you this she's lying, it IS you.

BUZO71 · Post by **BUZO71** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:43 pm

thanks for all the great replies.... I think I will look into getting soemthing a bit bigger.... then clean it later for nitrox.....

rjarnold · Post by **rjarnold** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:43 pm

BUZO71 wrote:thanks for all the great replies.... I think I will look into getting soemthing a bit bigger.... then clean it later for nitrox.....

Or buy it clean and only put clean air in...

Cera · Post by **Cera** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:35 pm

Hum, I don't really want to be 'that person' the keeps arguing, because I see your point Sounder. BUT, I do have enough air for my dive buddy (husband) and I find it kind of strange the idea of telling someone what size tank to buy based on them having to rescue you... [just saying]
I do agree that you should come up with some extra air incase of emergency or having to redescend in a current or to find the anchor line or whatever but not everyone requires the largest tank they can carry.
Otherwise the dive shops would only carry the hugest tanks, because that is what everyone would be buying.
I would have a hard time selling a 130 tank to a woman who was 5'2 and 100 lbs... it seems like a little overkill... even if her husband is 6'6 and 300 lbs and he sucks air like a hoover.

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:46 pm

Cera wrote:I would have a hard time selling a 130 tank to a woman who was 5'2 and 100 lbs... it seems like a little overkill... even if her husband is 6'6 and 300 lbs and he sucks air like a hoover.

Great conversation!

Said lady who is 5' 2" and 100 lbs doesn't need to carry a 130. Mrs. Sounder certainly does not. As Mr Sounder said, she will, sometimes, carry a 100 on a deeper dive where Mr. Sounder might need her air in the event of an emergency, where normally she would only need an 80.

It does someone no good to own a tank so big that they cannot physically handle it!

An Aluminum 80 is a fine tank... IN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES AND DIVE PROFILE. And there are profiles where an aluminum 80 is a bit scary, IMO.... simply because there is NO margin for error. We all take risks, and that's fine, it's just good to have clear picture of what those risks entail... something that unfortunately my Open Water class didn't do a good job on.

A good gas management class can be a real eye opener... a conservative gas planning philosophy is not something everyone embraces, but it is at least good to have an understanding of the math behind size of tanks, your air consumption at different depths, and what that would translate to in a worse case scenario during a dive, and whether you would have enough gas for yourself and your buddy in the event of a failure where one of your air supply "goes away".

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opnions Cera!

Hey Bob, when is your next Gas Management Class?

Chevayea · Post by **Chevayea** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:37 am

I'm a newer diver but i upgraded this summer from an 80 to a 119 and i couldn't beleive the difference it made on my diving style. All the sudden i wasn't concerned with trying to maximize my air consumption and thinking about breathing all the time. Because i wasn't worried about it my breathing actually improved a lot too. I love my 119. It has been plenty big for anythng that i'm doing and unless you're going really deep, it is hard to use up that much gas.

I spent an hour and a half on one dive at Edmonds last month and still came up with just under 1,000 psi!

Dmitchell · Post by **Dmitchell** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:53 am

I prefer 2 - 19's

Honestly, what these folks are saying is right on go with the 119's if that's what's got your eye!

Dave

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:33 pm

Once you start to use the math to determine how much gas you need for a dive, and how much gas you'll need at varying points throughout that dive for you and your buddy should he/she have a failure, you can determine exactly what size tanks you need.

I highly recommend gas management coursework and practice to every diver.

Solitude Diver · Post by **Solitude Diver** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:04 pm

All of the posts about gas management are great for figuring the minimum size tank you’ll need for any particular dive. However, as you are trying to pick a tank for all of your future dives, it makes more sense to get the largest one you are comfortable with. The added weight is offset by carrying less in your pouches/belt, etc. The only trouble might be making you more top heavy, but that can be worked out.

I would not go by the fact that of a couple of divers who can (in their normal routine) dive with an 80 on apparently any type of dive for an hour. You will not likely be able to unless you keep all of your dives relatively shallow, and are an experienced and controlled breather. (Most of us would not use that size for deeper dives). I have heard of people not having enough air on a dive (and not always with a good outcome), but never heard of anyone saying they just had too much and wished they did not have so much.

You cannot go wrong with a larger tank if it is comfortable. Try one out. Pay attention to the weighting and trim issues, and if you can carry and dive it, buy it. As you progress to deeper diving, and learn more about gas management (as others have stated) you will be glad to have it, and not be looking for a trade up.

I have loaned my HP 130’s to smaller women, and because they could then shed weight, they carried them just fine. I would actually recommend two tanks if you can squeeze them into your budget. I’d say, get at least 95’s or bigger for versatility. But hey…. That’s just me.

Dmitchell · Post by **Dmitchell** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:39 pm

I agree, Gas management is important but just get a tank and dive. Sometimes we spend hours or days over-analyzing stuff. If you like the 119 then get it. If you find that after 20-50 or whatever dives you don't like, it sell it and get something different.

Face it this is an equipment intensive sport and if you stick with it for any length of time you are going to go though alot of gear and several different tank sizes.

On another board there's some guy trying to mathematically figure out how much weight he needs for different setups. Give me a break! get out and dive!

Dave

Solitude Diver · Post by **Solitude Diver** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:59 pm

I saw that post (with the spreadsheets, etc. for every configuration he could think of) LOL. That was something else.