advice on new regs needed

[dsteding]

Either Atomics or Apeks would work. Since you are diving some real cold water at times, I'd lean towards the Apeks, they are diaphragms instead of piston regs and probably less prone to freeze-up (I predict this will become a point of much debate, but remember people, we are talking down to 36 degrees-I assume in lakes down in Oregon).

Disclaimer: I dive Apeks regs, so these are what I know. The Atomics themselves are also excellent regs.

If I did it I'd go with the Apeks XTX50 and a DS4 first stage, not the DST first stage. The difference is the swivel on the first stage, I actually prefer the non-swivel for a single tank reg. I'd also, because of the temperature thing, go with a good octo, if possible another XTX50 or at least a XTX40. The difference between the two should be about $40 and the XT50 is adjustable-nice in terms of tuning things in cold water. If all they'll sell you is the DST and you'd rather have a DS4, I have a new one I'd swap you. Someone can show you the difference if you are up in our neck of the woods-I'd be happy to do so.

I'd avoid a XTX20, it lacks a metal barrel in the guts of it, fine for warm water but a bit more picky in super-duper cold water.

If you gauges are in good shape and something you are used to, go ahead and switch them over to your new regs, that will save some money for now.

In terms of pricing, talk to your LDS. My GUESS is that they'll be willing to sell you two second and a first for around $700, I've seen XTX50/DS4 combos for $500 or so and a XTX40 or 50 should be $200 or $250. Be willing to haggle a bit.

[ArcticDiver]

Well, I'll give my experience with a pair of Atomic M1 DIN regs. I bought them together with a pair of Atomic DIN>Yoke adaptors. The first set I had trouble with leaks from the regs and the adaptors. AFter a couple repair attempts the dealer sent me a new set of regs in the sealed boxes. They were delivered with no O rings. A call to the factory confirmed they could not have been tested prior to shipping or they would have had O rings. They offered to test them If I would send them back. Nope, letting two regs leave the factory untested is a critical error. Back to the dealer they went.

They did have the gall to ask me if I had removed the O rings! They reconsidered once I asked what posssible motive I could have.

The dealer let me change to another brand of regs and adaptors. I love them. Well, as much as a person can love inantimate objects. I've used many different brands of regs and own different models of two brands myself. All were trouble free except the Atomics.

For cold water I have had good experience with DiveRite, Oceanic and Apeks.

[Pez7378]

Anything you all need to know in order to give good advice, just ask.

I'm biting my tongue here Loretta, after all, this Is a family establishment!!

I purchased my first set of regulators almost 2 years ago. I love them. I have no reason to change them, and I will probably buy more of them. Of course I am talking about my Apeks XTX 200 and XTX50. There are some folks here who absolutely LOVE their ATOMICS and I know they'll chime in soon.....You would probably be happy with either set up, but there are many other choices other than these two as well.......

[airsix]

Hi Loretta,
I'm going to make a suggestion and hope that others will give it a thumbs up or thumbs down. I'm just trying to explore your options.

I know that you want to get into a BP/W. When you do you'll want hoses of proper length. Stock hoses are not even close.
Instead of spending $700 on a new reg set you could make a huge improvement to your existing regs (as a frist step) with a small investment. I've got a guy who will send you a new 7ft reg hose ($22), a 24" HP hose ($18) and a proper 'brass&glass' pressure gauge ($56). Swap these parts onto your existing reg set and it will be ready for your BP/W. That leaves more than enough in your budget for a BP/W.

When budget allows you can buy the new 1st and 2nd stage regs and outfit them with the hoses and SPG you bought in step 1. Melina said you had some freezing issues in February when we did the 36F river dive, but the water has warmed up a lot since then (the river is now in the mid 40s). You've got about 10 months before you'll have to worry about freezing regs again.

What do the rest of you think about this?

-Ben

ps - Sorry I couldn't make it to the meeting yesterday. I still want to hear all about your classes/dives!
pps - My vote is for Apeks, and when my own are due for service they will go to Dan at NWSD.
ppps- Might want to check out the swap meet coming up at the Kennewick shop next month. Last year Rod P. bought a full Apeks xtx200 reg set from a couple for $200!!!!!!!!!!!

[Aquanautchuck]

Not sure if you only want info on the Atomics or the Apeks. I have my original US Divers SE 4 with the 1/2" primary lp port. This reg is bullet proof. It is now over 10 years old and still going strong. I like it so much I purchased a second one for my pony. With the Micra Adjust 2nd stage a real sweet breather deep or under task loading.

I don't know much about the Atomics but if it was between the Apeks or the Atomics I would get what dsteding said. Apeks is owned by US Divers or visa versa.

Also, a very important point is to get a reg that is readily repairable, not just at a few LDS. I have had been able to get mine serviced all over the world.


My 2 bits worth.

[Grateful Diver]

I would second Ben's advice ... right now getting into a backplate/wing or a higher-quality BCD will do more for you than a new reg set.

I own a bunch of Apeks regs and have been very pleased with their performance in all kinds of conditions.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Nwbrewer]

Maybe I missed it, but what are you diving now, and why is it no good for cold water?

I know there aresome regs that do not perform well down as cold as you're diving, at that temp in fresh water I guess you'd want a sealed reg?

If it's not a problem that they having freeflow issues due to icing or something like that, Ben's advice is good.

Jake

[Sounder]

I'm with Ben and Bob. Stay out of 36 degree rivers with the regulators you're currently running. The ones you've got should be fine for the warmer Puget Sound waters for quite a while. I'd get into the bp/w first and then look at regs. I'd also recommend you lose the special connectors on your BC, hoses, etc that we had trouble with in AOW. If you get the new BC, that shouldn't be an issue - Bob would know better as he was the one who took it apart.

As for regs, I'm a HUUUUUUGE Atomic fan and Apeks fan. If I wasn't diving Atomics, I'd be diving Apeks. I consider them of equal quality and performance.

[Ken G]

I use a Scuba Pro MK25/s600 for deco and a couple of DS4/xtx50's for my back gas. The Apeks regs are great. They are simple, well priced and breath better than anything else I have tried. I thought my MK25 breathed well until I got the Apeks. I'm now planning on getting an Apeks DST for deco and giving the Scuba Pro reg to my wife or to use as a backup. Atomics makes a good reg as well. A bit higher priced and it may cost a bit more to service. I think they may take proprietary hoses as well which may be a consideration. Call Matt at NWSD he can hook you up

[Sounder]

I use a Scuba Pro MK25/s600 for deco and a couple of DS4/xtx50's for my back gas. The Apeks regs are great. They are simple, well priced and breath better than anything else I have tried. I thought my MK25 breathed well until I got the Apeks. I'm now planning on getting an Apeks DST for deco and giving the Scuba Pro reg to my wife or to use as a backup. Atomics makes a good reg as well. A bit higher priced and it may cost a bit more to service. I think they may take proprietary hoses as well which may be a consideration. Call Matt at NWSD he can hook you up

The only proprietary hoses on Atomics are the ones with the swivels. My B2's came with swivel hoses and when I took it off to put a long hose on it, I learned that the male-end of the connection between the reg and the hose was twice as long as a "normal" one. I simply ordered a "spacer" for it from them for about $5 and it fits the conventional hose fitting perfectly.

I believe they've got a proprietary LP fitting for their SS1 integrated-octo thing, but the rest of their regs are conventional. I don't think Loretta will be looking at an SS1 anyway.

Loretta - this is all great advice. While there are many good regulators out there, you definitely can't go wrong with Apeks, Scuba Pro, and Atomic. I believe Tom Nic raves about his Oceanic Delta 4's which might be another great option for you and the kind of diving you're doing, and obviously other people have had good and bad experiences with a variety of other brands/models.

[airsix]

Not to confuse the matter, but in another thread we were discussing some angst against the big reg companies for their unfair trade practices, and I mentioned DiveRite and Salvo as examples of non-price-fixing, open-market types. What is the consensus on their regulators? Is there any reason we should not be recommending them? There would seem to be a lot of reasons we SHOULD.

-Ben

[Nwbrewer]

I have a salvo first stage, no complaints, but I don't dive water that cold.

[Grateful Diver]

Not to confuse the matter, but in another thread we were discussing some angst against the big reg companies for their unfair trade practices, and I mentioned DiveRite and Salvo as examples of non-price-fixing, open-market types. What is the consensus on their regulators? Is there any reason we should not be recommending them? There would seem to be a lot of reasons we SHOULD.

-Ben

Dive Rites are very good cold water performers. I know a lot of people who use them ... including Cheng. She's been using one for several years now ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Pez7378]

I borrowed some Salvo regs from Dsteding one year and used them for several months. Had them when I dove the Saskatchewan and Cape Breton. Those were Damn fine regulators.

[Sounder]

I assume Salvo doesn't make their own regs but orders them from a supplier. Anyone know the factory they come out of or who makes them? Kind of like Kirkland Brand Champagne is the same stuff as Moet Champagne, just in a bottle with a "Kirkland" label on it and is $10 cheaper.

[Pez7378]

I'm not sure who actually manufactures them but I think they are the same as the DiveRite, TDL, Scubamax and some others. I wouldn't be surprised to hear it if someone said they were made by Aqualung.

[Nwbrewer]

Search TDS or SB, lots of threads on these regs, but they are mostly made in Tiawan. DR claims that they use more "quality" parts than the other vendors, and claims to have some Proprietary changes made, but overall I think they are basically the same as the salvo and scubmax regs. Do we have a reg tech who's willing to chime in?

Jake

[airsix]

Do we have a reg tech who's willing to chime in?

Romer Treece, I summon thee!

[Pez7378]

Ocean Divers Supply?

[Nwbrewer]

Yeah, that's it!

[Sounder]

You guys act like Romer Treece actually knows something about a regulator! Really, I mean just because he's serviced a metric ass-load regulators for several years wouldn't make him an expert or anything would it?

Romer? Romer? Copy Romer... Come in Romer...Romer?

[Pez7378]

Yeah that's it!

Really? okay cool...........Back off Dan! I got this.........................

[Pez7378]

I'm enjoying reading all the posts. Thank you everyone, and keep them coming!! This is so much better than trying to drag information out of an un-informed LDS sales staff.

Yep, and don't even think of going into the LDS and mention that you "might" have a cold..........It was like a ghost town in there.........it was wierd, the door was unlocked, and the open sign was on, but there was no one around to help me I couldn't even get my questions answered ..............

[Nwbrewer]

I think coming though the door holding Kleenex to your nose and declaring "I'm sick" might have had something to do with it.....

We're gonna start making you wear one of those paper masks so none of us misses a dive.

[lurch]

I'm enjoying reading all the posts. Thank you everyone, and keep them coming!! This is so much better than trying to drag information out of an un-informed LDS sales staff.

Yep, and don't even think of going into the LDS and mention that you "might" have a cold..........It was like a ghost town in there.........it was wierd, the door was unlocked, and the open sign was on, but there was no one around to help me I couldn't even get my questions answered ..............

Next time try writing your question on a piece of paper, laminate it, spray it down with 70% EtOH and slip it under the door. We'll decontaminate it, the door and the floor space it was found on, read it, and reply in the same manner.



Or you could always email the owner.