what car would make a good dive car? yes-- this is gear :)

[Sounder]

If you rolled into the dive site on "the short-bus..."

[lurch]

Who me?

Yer darn skippy I did. And I found my snorkel and dive knife under the seat too!

[babs13]

Find a retired ambulance and start a conversion project Babs.
Big enough to change in, plenty of storage space, and hey...install a compressor in there too.

Plus a beer tap or two.

[Phineas Gage]

Plus a beer tap or two.

Here ya go Babs: http://www.emergencyvehiclecenter.com/P ... _stock.htm

[whatevah]

which kind of cars [not truck] would make a good dive car and to the slopes in the winter?

I bought a used E320 4matic wagon for exactly those reasons (and to transport my little girl safely too). Unlike most of the wagons these days, it doesn't have the swoopy roofline which steals useful space in the back. There is a _heap_ of room back there - more than most mid-size SUVs, and I get pretty decent mileage too. It is quiet, comfy, and the 4matic is unobtrusive but very effective - it's full-time 4WD as opposed to AWD (which is an important distinction to me). Money no object, I'd probably get one of the newer BMW 5 series 4WD wagons with manual transmission, but I'd be giving up some space if I did. I put a WeatherTech all weather mat in the back - it has a nice high lip to catch and collect all the water that drains out of SCUBA and ski gear and that's been working great for me. An E320 from the early 2000s can be had pretty affordably these days.

[airsix]

Based on your criteria, my vote is for an Audi or Subaru.
From highest (cost/features) to lowest
Audi A6 Avant
Audi A4 Avant
Any Subaru hatchback (Note to Scooby fans. Listing last is in no disrespect. Note that nothing else even made the cut.)

All of the above have lots of cargo room, easy access hatch back, AWD, and high quality. Now that the Hodna Element can be had with AWD you might consider it too. Having seen the highly-functional cargo area of Grateful Diver's rig, I was very impressed.

Don't be afraid to buy a used Audi if new is out of your price range. They are wonderful machines and I'd rather have a 35,000 mile used Audi than a brand new car of most other makes. I just blue-booked a 4yr-old A6 Avant with 35,000 miles. Retail is $21,000. Compare the quality and features to any new car in that price range and the Audi will win hands down. Just an option to consider.

-Ben

[cardiver]

I have an Audi A4 Quattro and it is a great car.

[Alex]

FYI most German autos have quirky issues after about 50-60K usually with electronics. Always a good idea to get the extended warranty. Just don't get reamed a lot of dealerships make their money is in the back office. So they'll make some on financing off you as well as the extras. They typically try to sell the warranty 2 - 3 times what it costs them.

[cardiver]

FYI most German autos have quirky issues after about 50-60K usually with electronics. Always a good idea to get the extended warranty. Just don't get reamed a lot of dealerships make their money is in the back office. So they'll make some on financing off you as well as the extras. They typically try to sell the warranty 2 - 3 times what it costs them.

2-3 times, Alex? Really?? From what experience do you make these claims?

[Joshua Smith]

A good taco, kind of kicks ass. Especially if you're really hungry.

[Diver_C]

A good taco, kind of kicks ass. Especially if you're really hungry.

Mmmm... really good tacos... any taco works too... mmmm

Caution: Tacos are not good dive cars.

[Tangfish]

The Dodge Sprinter is a pretty good dive vehicle.

[airsix]

FYI most German autos have quirky issues after about 50-60K usually with electronics.

That is just not true, Alex. Certain years of certain models? Sure. It would be true of any make, both foreign and domestic. But to say "most German autos have quirky issues after about 50-60k" is patently false.

You can't just lump every car from an entire nation into a vague criticism like that.

If you want to make statements like that be specific.

-Ben

[airsix]

The Dodge Sprinter is a pretty good dive vehicle.

And in the right hands it can do the Nürburgring in less than 11:00:00.
... but you'll burn the brakes up a bit.

Just this weekend I was telling someone about the awesomeness of the big green machine. It's the perfect rig for a carpenter, or a diver, or an urban mercenary, or all of the above.

[oregondiver]

Hey Bab's. It seemed like you had a great dive car the other weekend. But since you are asking..I will give you my thoughts.

I have a 2002 subaru outback. It has a rubber mat in the back, holds 4-5 tanks across, tubs on top.
Roof rack easy to reach for my height (I am 5ft8) whether loading cargo box or whitewater kayaks. Car is 6 years old, and loaded with 4 white water kayaks on the roof, 4 women (and arse load of camping gear for 3 days in cali), we still got 20-22 mpg. With only two boats on top, two people, we get 22-25 mpg. No boats and just me...25-28mpg. Original cost was about 19K brand new. But best of all...we sleep in the car frequently. WHen camping in idaho, it gets to 30degrees overnight and 70's in the day. Who wants to wake up with ice all over their tent!?!? THe seats fold down perfectly flat. I fit perfect, my husband could use a bit more, but it is doable for 3-4 days of camping.

We just bought a 2008 subaru outback in September. Has more fancy dodads than my car does, and tells us average mpg while driving. Again, rubber mat in back, holds lotsa crap. Seats fold down almost 100% flat, but still good enough to sleep in, and it has an extra few inches of room (due to bench seat configuration) that we have more sleeping room! Mileage is about the same. And you can stand/change under the door for both cars.
Brand new was $19K (but the boy got suckered in for their warranties...)

One of the things we didn't like so much about the Element...we couldn't reach the top of the roof racks to load boats easily. So if you are looking at putting your ski stuff (or rocket box) on top, it might be a bit hard to reach unless you clambered onto the hood.

Another important factor...look at insurance. I remember when buying (years ago!) my first new car, it was almost $40 a month difference between two cars. A subaru outback is considered a station wagon (but still has that AWD!) so lower interest rates and I think my insurance guy said they weren't on the top list for stolen cars. I don't know what the Element and Audi's are rated (SUV/Car/Van) but you can call your agent and ask about insurance rates. You will probably be super surprised at the difference.

Good luck!
Shell

[Alex]

FYI most German autos have quirky issues after about 50-60K usually with electronics.

That is just not true, Alex. Certain years of certain models? Sure. It would be true of any make, both foreign and domestic. But to say "most German autos have quirky issues after about 50-60k" is patently false.

You can't just lump every car from an entire nation into a vague criticism like that.

If you want to make statements like that be specific.

-Ben

My bad most German cars such as Beamers and Mercs. Most people know that for example the cost of ownership on a Lexus is much less over a given time than let's say a Beamer. I wouldn't have a problem driving a an IS out of warranty but I'd feel a little sketchy in a 3-series. I'm not talking drivetrain/engine issues. I'm talking stupid little stuff that adds up like a wiring harness 02 sensors etc.

British cars are a completely different story, there's a reason a 05 S-type v8 jag books for 16K. Actually Jag isn't even British anymore but you get what I'm saying...

[NWBoiler]

I like my Eurovan poptop camper....... amazing vehicle.

[cardiver]

Your Honda Fit will do just fine in the snow when it's loaded with dive gear......

[camerone]

Your Honda Fit will do just fine in the snow when it's loaded with dive gear......

Yeah, I've been diving out of a VW Bug (the new ones) now for the last few years. As long as you drop the rear seat, you can get an amazing amount of stuff in that car. I've done full tech gear for two divers plus an overnight clothing bag, no problems.

Not the greatest thing in the snow, but respectable.

I actually moved a piano once in that car... it's insane what you can get in through the hatch.

[babs13]

My trusty, rice-burning CRV is an awesome dive car and practical AWD slope-hopping car. But I don't feel safe in it as I once did. It is built on a Civic platform, and is pretty good on front impact, but not so much for rear. So it's not a good car to be rear-ended in. And I feel like I've spent too much on a car that drive only when I go grocery shopping, and otherwise primarily to dive sites and to the mountains.

An imported SUV/wagon with strong bumpers and structure would be ideal. Probably used, so I can spend more on diving. I'll definately look into the Audis and Subarus. Not so sure about that Sprinter- is it stiletto friendly? Oh, there is also the LR3 and XC90-- they both have a tail gate. Thanks everyone!

[whatevah]

My bad most German cars such as Beamers and Mercs.

I'm curious - how many have you owned? Your assertion certainly doesn't fit my own experience.

Most people know that for example the cost of ownership on a Lexus is much less over a given time than let's say a Beamer. I wouldn't have a problem driving a an IS out of warranty but I'd feel a little sketchy in a 3-series. I'm not talking drivetrain/engine issues. I'm talking stupid little stuff that adds up like a wiring harness 02 sensors etc.

Most people are ignorant of what's required to maintain their vehicle, and they're prone to paying whatever the dealer demands. Some brands bundle in a whole bunch of luxury with the service and repair provided by their dealerships and some buyers are happy to pay for it - it's a feel good thing. Then there's the FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) perpetuated by statements like yours above. Not to put too fine a point on it, but it seems like your automotive knowledge is a little sketchy. You really think that wiring harness replacement is common in European vehicles? Here's a little tip for you on oxygen sensors: they're a wear item - they need replacement just as frequently on a Lexus as a BMW or a Ford. The reality is that you can do the replacement yourself extremely easily - or have an independent shop do it for you. It will cost about the same for a Lexus or a BMW - the reason is that they're probably both made by Bosch and basically the exact same item.

I do all my own vehicle maintenance and almost all my own repairs. I can tell you that I've spent more time and money working on my Japanese and domestic vehicles than my German vehicles - probably purely by chance. I would much sooner work on my Mercedes or my BMW though - it's very clear to me that a lot more thought was put into making them maintainable over the long term. Perhaps it is the years I spent studying engineering, but I tend to value the mechanical design of a vehicle a great deal. Have you ever had a timing belt fail while you were on a trip? How about in an interference engine? To my mind, belt driven cams are a stupid and cheap shortcut - a hidden cost that the vehicle's owner picks up later. I avoid vehicles that have belt driven cams, and I will never buy one with an interference valve design. This is a _real_ issue for owners - as opposed to the silly campfire horror stories about wiring harnesses and oxygen sensors above. Look around and see which manufacturers are taking the mechanical shortcuts: FWD and tacked on reactive AWD systems with poor torque splits, the resulting transverse engine mounting that cramps the front suspension and drivetrain layout (can you say bump steer? and torque steer?), belt driven cams... the list goes on. Yes, the price of those vehicles is lower, but you still get what you pay for. Sorry to ramble, but this thread needed some reality to counter the preposterous generalizations put forth as facts.

[airsix]

I'm with whatevah on this. I worked my way through college as a mechanic at an independent shop. I got to work on everything from Coopers (the originals) to Peterbuilts. Two things came out of that. 1. I have very specific opinions about various makes and their standards for design, materials, and workmanship, and 2. I do all my own maintenance/repair work because I can.

In general you can take a domestic, a Japanese, and a German car of similar initial cost, and after 50,000 miles each will have areas where it has done better than the others. If any one was clearly superior across the board nobody would be buying the others. They all have their strong and weak points, and we all have preferences based on our experiences.

whatevah, I don't have a problem with belts on non-interference motors because they are quieter, but you are right that interference motors should always use chains. Personally I love my chain-cam interference motors. Non-interference motors leave too much performance on the table and chains are reliable enough to mitigate the risk (famous last words of the guy who hasn't had to replace the head and pistons on his own car yet due to piston/valve boxing match).

-Ben
Current daily driver: 70,000 mile german car with zero mechanical or electrical failures. Looks feels & drives like new.

[airsix]

I sure like my little Honda Fit it sure holds a bunch of gear (and it's fun to drive)

Today Loretta, another friend (Rod), and I did a river drift dive. That meant we had to shuttle in one car to the drop point and leave the other cars at the exit. So three divers and all their cold water gear piled into that little Honda Fit, and, well... fit. We actually fit quite comfortably. It has a LOT of cargo space for such a small car. Rod was teasing Loretta that it's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. He's not to far off. Loretta folded down one rear seat (which lays completely flat on the same plane as the cargo area) making an 'L' shaped extended cargo area, and leaving 'L' shaped seating for three. It was totally ying/yang if you can picture the layout. I still can't believe we got all that stuff in there and nobody or their gear was cramped.

-Ben

[BASSMAN]

I like my Dodge Dakota 4X4 SXT with the black diaper(Canvas Soft Topper) on the back!

[thelawgoddess]

I have an Audi A4 Quattro and it is a great car.

I have a Land Rover Disco, and it can hold a bunch of dive gear ... as well as just about any other kind of outdoor gear. And it will out-drive the Audi off-road any day. (The A6 Avant and Quattro made it to my short list of vehicles under consideration that would hold dive gear and do well in the snow ... but couldn't make the cut when it came to off-road performance and [my] comfort.)