Canister Lights Recommendations for PNW diving

[-Aaron-]

I have been thinking about a canister light as my next big gear upgrade and I was hoping I could tap some of the board's knowledge on the preferred wattages, bulb type, brands, etc. for diving in the Northwest. My buddy and I do almost as much night diving as day diving, so a solid primary light would be really helpful. Right now my interests are just in recreational single tank diving, no wreck penetration or caving in my future.

The first big decision seems to LED or HID. On one side the tight focus and beam adjust-ability of an HID light seems like a great feature. However the more fragile and expensive bulbs are a bit of a drawback. The multiple power levels of a LED light seem nice for toning down the beam in clear waters or when I need a longer battery life, but it sounds like they don't quite cut through the murky water like an HID. We often do trips in our van without access to a wall socket, so a longer battery life would be nice. It sounds like at lower wattages the LEDs seem to be more efficient than HID, however once you get to 21 Watts they seem pretty similar in burn time and cost.

Next, is Wattage. I have heard many people say like they felt like a 10 Watt HID or 12 Watt LED was all the light they need. However, people do seem to gravitate towards 21 Watt when they get more serious or can afford it. I'd hate to spend the money on a light and not be totally happy with it, so that is making me lean a bit more towards a larger Wattage. My buddy recently purchased an older 18 Watt HID light, so I'm a bit concerned that a lower power light will feel drowned out. I know my current primary, an old Princeton Tec, feels pointless when trying to shine it in the water next to his HID.

Finally is brand. Salvo seems almost universally praised for construction and customer service. The Dive Rite LED LUX seems like an interesting light as well, though a have heard a few negative stories on Dive Rite's light construction and support.

I would love to hear people's canister light experiences and what you would recommend for construction and brand. If you were buying a new light today what would you get?

[camerone]

People make too big a deal about the "fragility of HID". I've personally shattered two Salvos with brightstar bulbs underwater, only to come up, rinse out the head, put a new test tube on it, and keep right on going. In both cases, the bulb kept burning under water, at least for a while.

Sure, the crappy old Halcyons which used WA bulbs would break if you looked at them funny, but most manufacturers have swapped to the more robust Brightstar parts by now.

Look at luminous efficiency when you compare lights, not watts. Lumens per watt is more important and HIDs are still more efficient for a given power level. LEDs are improving day by day and are strong contenders finally, but they don't focus as well, and never will (the physics of a multi chip die make it impossible.) When we finally get high power single die chips, that may improve. We still need a significant improvement in lumens per watt at the higher power levels, too. Right now, LEDs are good in the 10 watt range, fair+ at 20, and useless past there.

Fwiw, I am a huge fan of my 35W Salvo light. Great step up from a 21 W and 5.5 hours burn before it dies. Go Salvo:)

[Grateful Diver]

I own both an 18W HID and an 12W LED ... both Salvo ... and although I love both lights, there are advantages and drawbacks to each. In general the LED light will give you all the light you need, but it simply doesn't cut through the murk like an HID light does. In conditions like we've been experiencing these past few weeks, the HID has a clear advantage in terms of not only lighting your way, but being visible to your dive buddies. The HID is noticeably better at signaling and getting your buddy's attention.

On the other hand, the LED light is much smaller, lighter, and less expensive. If you travel a lot, this is a great light to consider since it packs so small and lightweight.

As for HID bulbs, the Brightstar bulbs that Salvo uses are virtually indestructible ... mine's got more than 1,000 dives on it without problem ... and I tend to be hard on gear. Stay away from lights (like the Light Cannon) that use the Welch-Allen bulbs and you should be fine.

Salvo is more than just a good product ... I've had great experiences with their customer service (although admittedly I have friends who have other stories to tell).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Sounder]

My friends all know where I stand on this one - I'm a Salvo homer all the way. I love those guys, and I love their lights.

Here's a little note on their customer service: When I was brought on-board with Liquivision, customer service was an area I wanted to take to the next level. It was good, but I wanted it to be amazing. There are two companies I patterned our current customer service after - Deep Sea Supply and Salvo. Corey, Joel, and Barry will take incredible care of you. If you have any issue at all, the general advice is "just call Salvo" because they'll take care of you.

Their lights are bomb-proof. Seriously, I've owned 4 of their primary lights and presently own 2. Their other gear is great too, but their primary lights - wow. I'm hard on my gear too and I've never had a problem. The HID bulbs they use are very durable. For transportation, I put a beer "coozie" over the light head, but that's about as much protection as they get.

As for size, I'd go 21w, 35w, or 50w HID for around here. More light is better, but the difference between the 35 and the 50 isn't that much more so I think the 35w is the best light for the money.

My experience puts Salvo on the top-shelf. I have some friends with other lights which are serving them well, but Salvo is the brand I recommend. It's definitely an investment, but it's definitely a case of "buy it nice, or buy it twice."

[Sockmonkey]

Hey Aaron,

Here are a few previous posts on similar subjects that might be helpful.

Salvo 10w vs. 21w HID

Dive light...recommended watts for diving in the puget soup

And if I were buying a can light today I would buy a salvo 21w HID... oh wait... I already own one.

Good luck!

-Eric

[BDub]

And if I were buying a can light today I would buy a salvo 21w HID... oh wait... I already own one.

I agree. I have a Salvo 10w and it's a great light and serves me just fine. I'll eventually get a 21w I'm sure.

If I were in the market for a light, Salvo would be my first choice, and I'd seriously look at a 21w. The 10w is ok, but in our waters, the 21w is better, IMO. Anything over a 21w is too bright. It can drown out other lights, making communication a bit more of a chore. Not a huge deal, just an inconvenience, IMO.

[CaptnJack]

21W HID for local diving. Used 10w if you are on a budget.
35w and 50W are just overkill for the exponential increase in costs. Save the extra ~$400 for more tanks.
If you are travelling, look into LEDs, smaller, lighter and slightly more tolerate of baggage handlers.

[H20doctor]

If you do a search in dive gear you will find atleast 3 threads on this topic and that should give you some good insight on the what , and Who.. As for lights I have this Light that I got and everyones afraid to dive with me because its soooo bright

[Dmitchell]

I've had a Halcyon Proteus 3 forever and it's been bulletproof.

I've currently got a Nite Rider LED - same as the Deep Outdoors unit. It's really nice and compact! I'm liking it alot!

[Grateful Diver]

Anything over a 21w is too bright. It can drown out other lights, making communication a bit more of a chore. Not a huge deal, just an inconvenience, IMO.

This is really a consideration ... those huge, bright lights are great for the guy carrying them ... but they do tend to make it more difficult for the people with the more normal-sized ones to get noticed if they're trying to signal.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Sounder]

The 50w definitely requires larger lights to be able to communicate with it. With the 35w it's less of an issue, but one should really consider the other lights on the team and whether they're able to communicate around your light. I'm in the market for a second primary light as a back-up) and I'm going to go with a 21w (I have a 50w) for these reasons and for cost savings on the second light.

[Stu]

I have the 12w salvo led. The light is great, though the handle that it came with left something to be desired. The light basically snaps into position onto the handle. You have to use two hands to turn it on with the standard handle. It also likes to pop off the handle whenever you put it or attempt to clip it off. I ordered a regular goodman handle and have since fixed the problem, but if you order from them directly I'd try to see if they could hook you up with a something more reasonable.

[CaptnJack]

Anything over a 21w is too bright. It can drown out other lights, making communication a bit more of a chore. Not a huge deal, just an inconvenience, IMO.

This is really a consideration ... those huge, bright lights are great for the guy carrying them ... but they do tend to make it more difficult for the people with the more normal-sized ones to get noticed if they're trying to signal.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

They just aren't required either. I am not participating in the arms race for the fastest scooter or the biggest light (If I was I'd have a 200W HMI http://salvomfg.com/200_watt_hmi )

10w to 21W and vice versa seem to communicate just fine. 10w to 35w or even 21w to 50w is just not helpful. A 12w LED with its relatively diffuse beam would be even worse next to a 35 or 50w.

[Sounder]

FWIW, I've never once had an issue with someone signaling me with a 10w or 21w. I am, however, quite vigilant in watching for and monitoring my team's light motions so that may be part of why it works for me.

[dsteding]

I have a 35w and it is enough light for sure. Glad I don't have the 50w, I too am not in the scuba arms race.

I agree a 21w Salvo is plenty for around here.

[CaptnJack]

FWIW, I've never once had an issue with someone signaling me with a 10w or 21w. I am, however, quite vigilant in watching for and monitoring my team's light motions so that may be part of why it works for me.

They have been waving their backup around OOG above and behind you for years

[airsix]

I recommend you first look at run-time. How long do you need the light to burn between charges? Eliminate everything that doesn't meet your requirement and see what lights are left.

When I built my 35w HID I designed it around a 3hr burn requirement with the idea that it would get me through a 3-tank charter or a day of shore diving. I've reached a point now where 3hrs run-time between charges isn't enough sometimes. The brightness is also a liability at times as others have pointed out. The spill creates a lot of backscatter when we have soupy viz.

On my last trip I was impressed with the throw NWBrewer's LED had. It was great for signaling.

-Ben

[CaptnJack]

I recommend you first look at run-time. How long do you need the light to burn between charges? Eliminate everything that doesn't meet your requirement and see what lights are left.

When I built my 35w HID I designed it around a 3hr burn requirement with the idea that it would get me through a 3-tank charter or a day of shore diving. I've reached a point now where 3hrs run-time between charges isn't enough sometimes. The brightness is also a liability at times as others have pointed out. The spill creates a lot of backscatter when we have soupy viz.

On my last trip I was impressed with the throw NWBrewer's LED had. It was great for signaling.

-Ben

4hrs seems to be enough for 2 good dives without running the battery into the ground every day. My 6yo 4500mA NiMH batteries in my 10Ws are still going to strong. Whereas I know LCF has burnt up a similar pack in a 21W (2 hr burntime) in only a few years time already.

[airsix]

"running the battery into the ground" is an important consideration. You'll likely more than quadruple a lithium or nickel battery's service life by only using 50-75% of it's capacity in regular use.

[-Aaron-]

Thank you to everyone for the helpful replies and links. It looks like I have a few things to consider. I was leaning a bit more towards LED before, but HIDs seem to be the prevalent choice around here. Some extra murk penetrating power would certainly be very welcome with the visibility we have been experiencing.

Burn time is definitely something I have thought about a fair amount. My typical weekend trip to the Puget Sound involves driving up Friday for two night dives and then two to four dives on Saturday and then coming back to Oregon. Generally we just camp out in my buddies van, so we don't have easy access to a wall outlet. I suppose I could try to set something up to charge off the car battery, but that adds some complexity. Ideally I would be able to charge the light up before I go and have it last for those 5 or 6 dives. That works out to around 5-6 hours of burn time. I was thinking the 10 Amp Salvo would just barely work for that situation, but taking in consideration what you are saying about not doing full run cycles on the battery it might not ideal. I could move up to a 20 Amp light for a few hundred more dollars, that gives me 10 hours of burn time, so plenty of headroom for an extended trip. Of course at that point you are only about 100 dollars away from a 35 Watt light that outputs twice the lumens (at the cost of a reduced battery life).

[Nwbrewer]

Why not just get a second battery?

[camerone]

Generally we just camp out in my buddies van, so we don't have easy access to a wall outlet. I suppose I could try to set something up to charge off the car battery, but that adds some complexity.

You just need one of these: http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/CT ... oduct.html or something similar. Plug into the cigarette outlet and let 'er charge overnight. I've seen more than adequate ones for light charging as low as $10 on closeout sales... you only need 25-30W capacity to do light charging, but I'd shoot for a ~150-200W capacity for light general usage.

I actually ALWAYS keep one in the car...you'd be amazed at how many times it comes in handy...from a passenger with a laptop to a cell phone I forgot to charge but I need to take to work...

Not a complicated problem at all.

[CaptnJack]

Add something like this for ~$4.99 from Harbor Freight


And you can easily charge your electric toothbrush, HID and cell phone etc off a 200W inverter. (most smaller inverters have one maybe 2 outlets)

[Seaslave]

I bucked the system and recently bought a 15Watt Dive-Rite HID 1000. I wanted the 21 watt Salvo, but I didn't have enough loot left after I bought my dubbs and I am too impatient to wait. FWIW I have logged about 12 dives on it and it has been great! Brighter than my 10 watt but not so bright that it drowns out my buddies light. And it was $400 bucks cheeper than the Salvo. I'll admit, the Salvo looks like a superior product, but most of my friends have the Dive Rites and have been very happy with them.


-Mathue

[Joshua Smith]

I don't have much to add- but I will say that I liked my 10 w Salvo HID so much that I bought a 21 w Salvo HID. I love them both- awesome lights.