Drysuit Advice

[enigmatic]

Hi All!
I'm beginning my shopping for a drysuit - and have a budget of around $1500. I saw one at UWS for just over that a DUI CLX450. I'm sure I could talk them down a couple hundred in price. But... is this a good drysuit that would last me many years? Anyone have general advice on the traits I should look for in a good Drysuit?

Thanks so much for the advice!

[DiverDown]

I might suggest the appolo dry suit. I personally have never dove it, but Quite a few of my freinds do. To me it seems like a quality suit for the price. I have hered few complaints about it . I dive a DUICLX450 1,000 bucks almost new used, 400 buck for a new zipper 6 mos ago. It is a quality suit "hands down" but thats a big investment. USIA is also a good suit but I think way overpriced.. My advise is to shop around, there are good suits out there for resonable prices..

[CaptnJack]

Get a shell suit.

I dove an Apollo for several years. The compression at depth and reduction in warmth was noticable, leading to having thicker undergarments, but of course that required more lead to get down...

The Apollo's ankle valves are also totally BS. Its like the suit is designed to put your feet in the silt - I adjusted the springs to prevent those valves from venting. A stupid solution to a non-problem.

Shell suits, properly fitting (which means custom by and large) are a big improvement.

[dsteding]

Besides the DUI suit, a few others to look at are Diving Concepts (NWSD has a few on the shelf), Pinnacle (their Evolution 2 looks nice) and Gravity Zero, which looks like a nice suit for the money.

[Pinkpadigal]

I have dove almost all the major brands of drysuits on the market. Here is what you need to think about.

1. Budget. If you have $1500, is that going to be just for the suit, or the undergarment, drygloves, hood and ankle weights too? If you buy just the suit, that is only half of what you will need. My first drysuit was $800. I thought it was a bargain until I added on the undergarment and hood. The suit didn't even last 50 dives and it was full of holes. Not a good deal. Be prepared to spend some money and for a full package, it might be a little more than your budget. Shop around.

2. Type of suit. There are pros and cons of shell and neoprene suits. What I like may not be what you prefer. Everyone is different. My suggestion is to rent both types of suits, dive and see what keeps you warm and is comfortable for you. Just because your buddy dives a shell doesn't mean you will like it.

3. How you dive. Think about how deep you dive and if you are considering technical diving or purely recreational diving. Are you considering becoming a divemaster or instructor? How you dive the suit will determine what features are most important.

4. The undergarment. The most important part of your suit is what you wear under it. If your undergarment is too big, air will get trapped and the suit may not vent properly. If it is too tight, you will get cold. Consider spending money on the undergarment because it will be the difference between a 30 minute or 60 minute dive.

5. Gloves and Hood. Drygloves rock. Especially in the winter. Drygloves have made a huge difference for me but for many men, gloves are not a big deal. It is also important to get a well-fitting hood because all the heat will go right out your head.

6. Customer Service. Ask your retailer how long it takes them to repair a suit. What kind of warrenty does the suit have? If you get a suit with latex seals, how much and easy for them to replace them. If you buy a suit off display, ask the retailer to test it before it leaves the store.

Based on my experience and talking with many divers over the years, here are a few recommendations...

Suit: Stay away from cheap suits. You will replace them within 100 dives. I prefer a compressed neoprene suit but again, that is up to you. Many retailers have drysuits to rent. Ask.

Seals: I prefer neoprene seals because they are more flexible and they do not rip as easily. Laxtex are more form fitting and will give you a closer seal, but you will replace them more often

Undergarments: DUI and Diving concepts Stretch suits are the best I have used. Expensive but worth it. Both may be a little lite for a shell suit but for trilam or neoprene suits, they are perfect down to 48 degrees for most men.

Hoods and wet gloves: Seasoft make the best gloves and hoods (and a lot of other stuff too.) Local company and the owner stands behind his stuff.

Drygloves: OS Systems are the most economical, however I like the compressed neoprene drygloves by Diving Concepts.

Drysuit packages: This is the smartest way to buy a drysuit, especially if you purchase a shell suit. OS Systems and USIA package out their drysuits and they come in fashion colors too. Their undergarmet is designed to work with the shell to keep you warm. When you buy a suit, no matter they type or brand, ask the store to give you a package price on the suit. You will save money and you have everything to keep you comfortable underwater.

A lot of info but I hope it helps!

[enigmatic]

Great advise so far. I really don't want a suit that is full of holes within a few dives. Does that mean I need the kevlar knee and elbow pads? or other considerations?

[Tangfish]

Here's the ultimate drysuit guide. (pdf)

[Grateful Diver]

Here's the ultimate drysuit guide. (pdf)

Well, there's some good advice in there, but I bought into the "use the drysuit for buoyancy control" line when I first started diving dry ... and found out several hundred dives later that I had been doing things the hard way.

I know that's how PADI teaches drysuit buoyancy control ... but my experience says it's the wrong thing to do. My buoyancy control improved at least 100% when I switched to using the BCD for its intended purpose, and only put enough gas in the drysuit to reduce the squeeze.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[John Rawlings]

Here's the ultimate drysuit guide. (pdf)

Well, there's some good advice in there, but I bought into the "use the drysuit for buoyancy control" line when I first started diving dry ... and found out several hundred dives later that I had been doing things the hard way.

I know that's how PADI teaches drysuit buoyancy control ... but my experience says it's the wrong thing to do. My buoyancy control improved at least 100% when I switched to using the BCD for its intended purpose, and only put enough gas in the drysuit to reduce the squeeze.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm definitely with Bob on this one......Truer words were never spoken!

Not only does using your dry suit for buoyancy control make that control far more difficult, it also makes a diver more prone to out-of-control rapid ascents, especially when that diver is making the leap from a wet suit and is initially learning how to use a new dry suit.

- John

[Grateful Diver]

Hi All!
I'm beginning my shopping for a drysuit - and have a budget of around $1500. I saw one at UWS for just over that a DUI CLX450. I'm sure I could talk them down a couple hundred in price. But... is this a good drysuit that would last me many years? Anyone have general advice on the traits I should look for in a good Drysuit?

Thanks so much for the advice!

Going back a bit, I'll start at the original question.

I own a CLX450 as well as a TLS350. For diving comfort, I prefer the TLS350 ... but for durability the CLX450 is one of the toughest suits I've come across. If you can get a new one for $1,500, that's a sweet deal.

That said ... the most important consideration, above everything else, is that it fits you properly.

Shell suits don't stretch, so in order to allow adequate fit for a full range of motion they tend to look a bit "baggy" when you're standing straight. To make sure the suit fits properly ...

- Try on the suit with the undergarment you intend to wear under it. It should be comfortable in the torso ... but neither tight nor baggy. Basically, it should fit around your torso like a well-tailored suit jacket.

- Do a full deep knee bend. The legs should have just enough extra length to allow that motion. If at the bottom of the bend you have extra length in the legs, they're too long. If you feel pressure in the knees, they're too short.

- Standing straight up, reach back with your arms and try to touch the spot between your shoulder blades. You should be able to reach as far back with the suit on as you can with the suit off. Normally a shell suit will be be cut with a little extra space under the arm pits to allow this motion. If the suit doesn't allow a full range of motion, the arms are too short. If there's extra material anywhere in the arms at your full extension, the arms are too long.

- Boots ... make sure they fit! Boots that are too large not only trap air, they inhibit a good kicking motion. DUI suits normally come with neoprene socks. Make sure they're not overly large. Try them on with the socks you will wear under the suit. There should not be excessive room in the neoprene socks ... if there is, it will turn into uncomfortable folds when you put on your rock boots. My recommendation if you're going to buy a DUI suit with rock boots is to wear a pair of thinsulate "booties" underneat them ... at least in the winter when the water is colder. Neoprene socks and rock boots don't offer a lot of insulation ... and without the booties, your feet WILL get cold. Oh, and when purchasing rock boots, don't assume they'll be the same size as your shoes. If you get the thinsulate booties (or wear multiple or thick layers of socks) you may need a larger size rock boot.

Amy's given some awesome advice ... I'll just add some comments from a different perspective.

Undergarment - get one that stretches ... take a hunk of the fabric in your hand and stretch it in two perpendicular directions. Diving Concepts and Bare both make an awesome thinsulate undergarment with a stretch fabric outer layer. This matters, because undergarments that don't stretch need to be cut larger in order to allow a full range of motion. And the more undergarment you wear, the more weight it takes to sink in it.

Seals - I prefer latex. The main reason is because they're easier and less expensive to replace. In fact, with a little bit of training and practice you can replace them yourself. Neoprene seals will last longer, and they're generally more comfortable. But they also tend to leak easier, they're more expensive, and you will have to send the suit out for replacement seals.

If you get the DUI suit, I do not generally recommend Zip seals. I got them on my CLX450 because I thought they'd be a neat thing to have on a teaching suit. And, in fact, that has proven to be the case twice now, when I ripped a seal during a class and 10 minutes later I had a replacement seal on the suit and ready to dive. However, they come with trade-offs. First off, the ring on the neck seal can be uncomfortable for some people ... and if you have a large head, it can be difficult to get the seal on and off. Then there's the cost ... replacement neck seals run $135, which is about $50 more than you'll pay (including labor) to send a suit out for a regular neck seal replacement. Then there's the wrist seals. Because of the way they are mounted, although they will accommodate dry glove rings they will sit further down on your wrist than normal. This can range from inconvenient to downright uncomfortable, depending on how the suit got cut relative to your individual arm length. I put dry glove rings on my CLX450, and they ended up so far down the cuffs that they dug into my knuckles ... I had to take them off. And your other option is Zip gloves. Some like 'em, some hate 'em. The drawbacks I see is that when using them you will be putting your gloves on when you don the suit (meaning you have to gear up wearing your dry gloves), and if you get a hole in one, there's no protective seal on your wrist to prevent the suit from flooding.

Customer service can be a concern, but mainly when you purchase a custom suit and want to assure that it gets cut properly. In this case, I'd recommend a little research into the sort of customer service other wearers of the suit have experienced. For "standard" service and repairs such as seam and leak repairs, seal replacements, zipper and boot replacements, you have several local options ... and there's a place in Minnesota (Superior Drysuit Repair) that does better work than most manufacturers.

That's my 200 psi (for now) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Tangfish]

I didn't read that part, but these guys are right. I use my suit only to get the squeeze off (and sometimes a tad bit more if I'm cold) and use the BCD for buoyancy.

[Old Crab]

There are a lot of good drysuits out there. I have two, a Viking Pro 1000 and a HighTide Ti. The Viking is probably the better one for warmth because I can add any amount of insulation I want or as little as I want. But it is a little harder to don and doff because of the latex seals. Squeeze is considerably more noticable in a shell suit and at times can be a little uncomfortable.

The HighTide is a much warmer suit on it's own. It's not really a good summer suit because you will cook in it prior to getting in the water, but it is far more comfortable regarding squeeze and general movement. It is also much easier to don and doff because of the neoprene seals.

Personally, for comfort I prefer the HighTide. It is made of better neoprene than most and it does not compress as much as depth. It is very dense neoprene and they are made and serviced here in Port Orchard. They are a bit more expensive because they are all custom made, but they are well worth it.

[Cera]

We are lucky to be in 'dry suit central' all the manufacturers that are here make it easy to buy local!
Lets see there is Harveys, HiTide, Whites, USIA, to name a few.

I agree that you should rent some and try them before you buy. Its a big investment.

[Tangfish]

I've been very, very happy with my DUI CF200x. I was right inbetween two stock sizes so I got a signature series suit, which was good anyway because once you start adding to a standard suit the price skyrockets from there. I have the zip gloves, which I've grown to like more. My only qualm is that I'm on my 3rd neck seal in roughly 6 months. For some reason, they keep deteriorating like they have leprosy. I don't know what it could've been but I've been using talc now like an animal before and after each dive (previously I was just rinsing really well and using K-Y jelly prior to the dives (it works better during the hot summer).

[Joshua Smith]

I'll just add that I use my BC for buoyancy as well, not my drysuit, which is the opposite of what PADI tells you to do. But I have met several very good divers who tell me they use their drysuits this way, so I won't condemn the practice.

[.]

I'll second the comment about going with a shell suit. My first was an O'Neil neoprene, which was an ok suit for the money, but I tired of dealing with the varying insulation and buoyancy at different depths. I have a USIA shell suit that I've had for 5 years and approx. 300 dives and have not had any problems other than normal wear and tear, e.g. I just recently had the zipper and neck seal replaced. I got it from UWS and they've always been good about supporting what they sell. I like the shell style of suit because I can count on the same insulation and buoyancy at all depths.

[.]

Great advise so far. I really don't want a suit that is full of holes within a few dives. Does that mean I need the kevlar knee and elbow pads? or other considerations?

I would consider the type of boots first. I spent a few more dollars to have heavy-duty boots attached to mine, since I do a lot of shore diving. The regular boots felt like I was wearing socks. I don't have knee or elbow pads and haven't had any problems, but if you have the funds, add those too, wouldn't hurt.

[dsteding]

For some reason, they keep deteriorating like they have leprosy

Its the water at Cove 2 . . . (evil laugh)

[Zen Diver]

I too have a DUI TLS suit, which I've had for nearly 5 years with over 720 dives on it. It's had seals replaced a few times but the suit itself is still holding up well and has many many dives left on it. Can't beat the customer service and 7 year warrantee with DUI either. I like trilam type suits because of the physical flexibility, and the flexibility with undergarments. For summer I wear less, for winter I wear more. Simple.

-Valerie

[inked_diver]

Bare has a great line of drysuits. In my opinion they perform as well as the DUI for about half the cost. Dont spend money just have DUI.

[WylerBear]

Inked Diver and I dive the same Bare drysuit and I second the recommendation. I've only had mine a short while but I love it. It seems very similiar to the DUI but a lot less expensive. I dove a Harvey's neoprene suit for about 200 dives and it was fine. However, I could never recommend Harvey's because they have incredibly bad customer service. If you can, trying out different suits would be great. Good luck in your search.

[diver-dad]

You ought to also read the Gear Central discussion under the title "Worst gear story/experience"

Looks like there's some brands of DS to be avoided, unless, of course, you're into frustration.

[enigmatic]

I did see that - no Northern Diver. So I should pick a Bare of DUI. Now I just have to dive them and decide if I want the crushed neoprene or the Tri Lam.