*Choosing the right tech harness* Scubapro XTech question..

[SeanKylgod]

::EDIT::

**I edited the title of this because it kinda got derailed after I got the first response and If there was already a sticky like this , I wouldn't have had to ask so many questions, so now there is one for others to stumble on**



does anyone know if a tec or ranger wing will fit on a xtech harness? can the xtech be used with single tanks as well as doubles?

anyone have any experience with these setups?

[renoun]

My experience with the Zeagle Tech BC was that the wing was ungodly huge for single tank diving. I don't know about swapping it to a different harness but it did have 11" on center grommets so in theory it could get bolted to BP with a STA even if the cam band slots didn't line up. Perhaps like me you are on a budget and trying to work with what you have but unless you are diving dubs and a stage I wouldn't seriously consider keeping this wing.

[SeanKylgod]

budget is key, but I dont want to just throw a wing on a BP and call it good just because it can fit a single tank adapter.. I kinda want to do it right in my transition from my tech to a BP setup. My overall plan is to dive my BP setup as my primary on EVERY dive regardless of whether im twin or single tanking and have the flexibility to just swap out tank bands..

My experience with the Zeagle Tech BC was that the wing was ungodly huge for single tank diving. I don't know about swapping it to a different harness but it did have 11" on center grommets so in theory it could get bolted to BP with a STA even if the cam band slots didn't line up. Perhaps like me you are on a budget and trying to work with what you have but unless you are diving dubs and a stage I wouldn't seriously consider keeping this wing.

[CaptnJack]

I'd get a single tank wing for single tank diving.

[BDub]

I'd get a single tank wing for single tank diving.

+1.

Speaking from personal experience, wings that are designed to be used with single tanks and doubles are marginal at best for each configuration.

[mz53480]

I'd get a single tank wing for single tank diving.

+2

[Nwbrewer]

I'd get a single tank wing for single tank diving.

+1.

Speaking from personal experience, wings that are designed to be used with single tanks and doubles are marginal at best for each configuration.

+3. I've done both the dual use wing (ok, but a little wonky) and a doubles wing on a single tank (no fun at all) Keep an eye on SB classifieds. Single tank wings in fair shape show up all the time for $100-$150.

[trevorrowe]

Speaking from personal experience, wings that are designed to be used with single tanks and doubles are marginal at best for each configuration.

+1 to BDub's comment. I finally got around to replacing my dive right rec-wing, which was billed as a "good for both" type wing. In a doubles configuration, it was too narrow and was pinched between the plate and the tanks. In a single configuration it was much to wide and taco'd a ton making dumping air a pain.

[Joshua Smith]

I'd get a single tank wing for single tank diving.

+1.

Speaking from personal experience, wings that are designed to be used with single tanks and doubles are marginal at best for each configuration.

Agreed completely. I tried to use a doubles wing for a single tank, and it was miserable.

[SeanKylgod]

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm glad I decided to swallow what little bit of pride I have and ask =P

so, because I'm just starting into looking at itT classes, and to be honest, I want a BP/W setup as my primary for "light tech" and my standard rec diving, I wanted to be able to just rock one 119 on a "universal" wing, but from what i'm gathering, I should just buy a wing for singles and a separate wing for doubles + tank bands to switch it to a fully tec setup?

Of all, I need a new BCD and I figure if I'm already going down the tec route, I could just start by slowly piecing my BP/W system together and if I decide "its not for me" I still have a BP/W that I can comfortably still do normal rec diving with

right?

is this making sense to anyone, or is my logic completely obscured by the trillion different opinions I've heard all over the web?


Thanks a lot in advance!

[BDub]

One of the nice things about a bp/wing is its versatility. It's quick and easy to go from a single tank to doubles setup.

Many people end up having a singles rig and a doubles rig, but that's typically just acquired over time. In the meantime, I'd just look at a singles wing and a doubles wing. ~35lbs is typically what you'd want in a singles wing and 40-55lbs is typically good for doubles wings.

I'd recommend discussing your equipment purchases with your ItT instructor.

[SeanKylgod]

again, I greatly appreciate the advice. I know for a fact that I will eventually have a setup for both singles and doubles, it's just a matter of time to heal from selling each individual organ to pay for all of it =P

why such a lift difference in BP/W setups? For example, my Ranger has 60lbs of lift, My Stiletto has 35 and my tech10 had 65 (I think) I would think with technical diving, one would want more lift? why less?

One of the nice things about a bp/wing is its versatility. It's quick and easy to go from a single tank to doubles setup.

Many people end up having a singles rig and a doubles rig, but that's typically just acquired over time. In the meantime, I'd just look at a singles wing and a doubles wing. ~35lbs is typically what you'd want in a singles wing and 40-55lbs is typically good for doubles wings.

I'd recommend discussing your equipment purchases with your ItT instructor.

[kdupreez]

more lift = more drag you need to swim around.. and on both singles and doubles overly large wings can "taco" around the tanks making it trap air, therefore gas management a pain in the ass..

+ 1 bazillion on getting a wing for singles and later a wing for doubles, it will make your diving a whole lot more comfortable.

During the dive, the gas in your wing is really only meant to compensate for the gas in your tank that you are breathing down and for the compression of your exposure suit at the beginning of your dive at max depth.. Adversely, at the end of the dive you should have an empty bcd and be neutrally buoyant at 'bout 10ft... And on the surface it should have enough lift to float your gear and you with full tanks.

I would recommend you look at a singles kit with a BP + wing and then later just get a doubles wing. For out here you would probably look at a 30-40lb wing depending on your weight configuration (i.e. all on the kit or on a belt).. You will find later on you start collecting back plates rigged for thin wet suits and another for drysuits.. various wings for warm water, cold water (singles and doubles) and fresh water kits in there somewhere.

There is no true "one bcd does it all"... It might pull it off, but wont do it well..

If you drop me a PM I'd be happy to give you my thoughts on models & brands..

K

[CaptnJack]

I have had 50+lb wings on singles and you won't form good tech diving habits that way. It'll taco around the tank or just be a big sloshy bubble tipping you this way and that. Dedicated singles wings will be much narrower and have alot less interior space for a gas bubble to slosh around in.

There's a bit of a marketing ploy going on honestly, bigger is "Tech". If the current wing is 55lbs just set it aside until later when you have doubles. Or sell/exchange it for something for singles which is trimmer and sleeker and in the 35lb (plus minus 5lbs) neighborhood. That will help you form good in water habits (ie not having to go into crazy positions to vent).

A single tank only has 6-9lbs of gas in it (lp72 to hp130). So if you're weighted correctly you don't need a huge wing to counteract that swing. That's why a ~35lb wing works well for single tanks in a drysuit around here.

[SeanKylgod]

WOOT! Rationalization! Finally! can i get an amen?!

I have had 50+lb wings on singles and you won't form good tech diving habits that way. It'll taco around the tank or just be a big sloshy bubble tipping you this way and that. Dedicated singles wings will be much narrower and have alot less interior space for a gas bubble to slosh around in.

There's a bit of a marketing ploy going on honestly, bigger is "Tech". If the current wing is 55lbs just set it aside until later when you have doubles. Or sell/exchange it for something for singles which is trimmer and sleeker and in the 35lb (plus minus 5lbs) neighborhood. That will help you form good in water habits (ie not having to go into crazy positions to vent).

A single tank only has 6-9lbs of gas in it (lp72 to hp130). So if you're weighted correctly you don't need a huge wing to counteract that swing. That's why a ~35lb wing works well for single tanks in a drysuit around here.

[SeanKylgod]

again, thank you to all who have chimed in. I appreciate any wisdom I can suck from your brains

[CaptnJack]

Have you been working with an instructor? Or do you know who you'll be doing "intro to tech" with? (the exact name varies by agency but most are fairly similar courses)

[SeanKylgod]

nope, no instructor yet. I'm partial to PADI, but I guess it doesnt matter if it's PADI or NAUI so long as I get good instruction.. do you have a tech instructor you would suggest?

Have you been working with an instructor? Or do you know who you'll be doing "intro to tech" with? (the exact name varies by agency but most are fairly similar courses)

[CaptnJack]

Put agency waaay in the back of your mind. Its irrelevant who issues the card.

There are a number of good technical instructors in the Seattle area. Some on this board as well. In no particular order you might consider:
Mel Clark, TDI
Brian Weiderspan, UTD
Scott Christopher, NAUI
Guy Shockley, GUE

I'm pretty sure any of them would go for a trial dive with you to see how you mesh and where you might find into their respective programs. There are more around although I'm not sure I've ever been diving with any PADI tech instructors honestly.

[SeanKylgod]

So, how do I find any of these people? are any of them on this site? if so, what are their user names? thanks for all of the great info, guys!

Put agency waaay in the back of your mind. Its irrelevant who issues the card.

There are a number of good technical instructors in the Seattle area. Some on this board as well. In no particular order you might consider:
Mel Clark, TDI
Brian Weiderspan, UTD
Scott Christopher, NAUI
Guy Shockley, GUE

I'm pretty sure any of them would go for a trial dive with you to see how you mesh and where you might find into their respective programs. There are more around although I'm not sure I've ever been diving with any PADI tech instructors honestly.

[scottsax]

Mel Clark, TDI http://www.silentscuba.com/
Brian Weiderspan, UTD http://www.frogkickdiving.com/
Scott Christopher, NAUI http://www.soundaquatics.com/
Guy Shockey, GUE http://www.guyshockey.com/

Mel (scubagrunt) is on here infrequently, Brian (bdub) and Scott (vbcoachchris) moreso. Not sure if Guy is.

[Joshua Smith]

There's a pretty comprehensive listing of local tech instructors at the top of the "diving education- recreational" forum, pinned as an announcement. I can't post the link from my phone, though.

[scottsax]

There's a pretty comprehensive listing of local tech instructors at the top of the "diving education- recreational" forum, pinned as an announcement. I can't post the link from my phone, though.

True that - I forgot all about it.

http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9126

[kdupreez]

Guy doesnt frequent this board, but vicariously through members, he usually gets the message

All these mentioned instructors are kick-ass and you cant go wrong with either..

I teach the PADI DSAT stuff and have gone through both PADI and GUE Tec courses and would be happy to give you some insight into the respective programs..

Agencies are not entirely irrelevant during the beginning Tec courses, But the instructor you for sure need to be worried about So do your research.. otherwise you might end up taking courses over again when you end up switching instructors and agencies.. (kinda like some end up buying BC's over again when moving between rec and tec)

Just do your research into the program specifics and do not stare blindly into "limits" of the cert like depth, mix, etc.. or an attractive price tag.. Rather look at the whole package and how that initial cert builds forward to the rest of your diving career and how that agency approaches it.

Also, it would be good to understand what your goals are with Tec..as yourself "why do I want to take these elevated risks" in diving and match that answer with the agency's goals.

[CaptnJack]

Jeesh I never knew about that sticky, well there you go.

Does anyone know if Matt going to continue teaching now that he's closed NWSD?