Computer choice

[json]

I'm in a toss up between the predator or x 1 dive computers has anyone out there use both and maybe pros and cons to each?

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[Joshua Smith]

I'm in a toss up between the predator or x 1 dive computers has anyone out there use both and maybe pros and cons to each?

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I dive a SW predator and love it. Some of my dive buddies dive x1s and love them- both are excellent computers. I don't think you'll regret choosing either one of them.

[kdupreez]

Are you primarily going to do OC? or are you looking at doing rebreathers at some point?

Also, are you planning on doing Tec trimix level dives with it? etc?

I have an X1 that you are very welcome to try out.

I would also suggest looking at the Xeo dive computers if you are looking at Trimix computers primarily?

[json]

I will be mainly staying with oc down to tec trimix levels but it would be nice to be able to upgrade just the software for ccr in the future in case I ever make that plunge

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[DontPokeTheBear]

I also have an X1, and more recently a diverite nitek Q I am very impressed with the nitek Q. Though it's not an X1 it's a little over half the price of one with Trimx unlock. In the begining I dove tables and bottom timer(s) (and still do) that's a very good option if you want to save some cash(though it has some drawbacks).

[CaptnJack]

I will be mainly staying with oc down to tec trimix levels but it would be nice to be able to upgrade just the software for ccr in the future in case I ever make that plunge

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what are you buddies diving? and what does your instructor allow?

The 2 computers mentioned aren't very different in the grand scheme of things.

[kdupreez]

I will be mainly staying with oc down to tec trimix levels but it would be nice to be able to upgrade just the software for ccr in the future in case I ever make that plunge

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So both computers and the Xeo are all three very capably OLED based trimix computers.

The shearwater can for little extra money have the ability for it to do real time CCR PO2 monitoring, etc., but in my opinion, if you are diving OC now and "maybe" ccr later, get a good OC computer now because chances of technology improving and shifting by the time you get to CCR, you would probably want to upgrade or get whatever the flavor of the day is at that point.

Then, the X1, Xeo and Shearwater standalone units can all do CCR mode (without po2 monitoring). here are some pro's and con's that I can think of..

Shearwater pro's: long Lithium battery life, can do VPM and Bhullman, full color OLED, OC and CCR.
Shearwater con's": big/bulky, has screen glare at angles, no bungee mounts. (dont think it has stop watch?)

X1 pro's: Rechargeable battery, very small, no buttons (nice with dry gloves), bullet proof machined aluminum body, potted (cant flood), your choice of firmware, VPM and Bhullman, bungee and strap mounts, no glare. OC and CCR, full dive planner. stop watch. dual redundant depth censors.
X1 con's: small fonts if you want lots of data, have to remember recharger.

Xeo pro's: small unit, no buttons, Rechargeable or long life Lithium batteries, full color OLED, potted (cant flood), OC and CCR, no glare, configurable colors, stop watch, strap or bungee mount, least expensive
Xeo con's: only Bhullman at this time (no vpm).

I can get you ALL three of these computers to try side by side if you want to.. just let me know.

Koos

[Joshua Smith]

Eh. It's pretty easy to mount bungees to your Shearwater, and that "screen glare" thing is bogus. I can read mine from just about any angle except for 180 degrees. It's a non-issue.

[John Rawlings]

Eh. It's pretty easy to mount bungees to your Shearwater, and that "screen glare" thing is bogus. I can read mine from just about any angle except for 180 degrees. It's a non-issue.

Agreed. Those "cons" are pretty much nonsense.

Both the X-1 and the Shearwater Predator are absolutely excellent computers. I know and dive with many divers that have one or the other and everyone has been extremely happy with their choices. It's like a "Ford vs. Chevy" thing and, similarly, Divers are devoted to their choice.

Personally, I'm one of those that is devoted to Shearwater.

- John

[json]

My pros for the x1 are its compactness and I don't know when or if i will ever go ccr. I do like the predator for its three color oled system. I would like to do a side by side dive one of these weekends. Trying to get my tek kit built

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[John Rawlings]

If you haven't actually had one in your hands and you're trying to visualize the actual size of a SW Predator, ask to borrow a pack of cigarettes from a smoking friend. The Predator is almost exactly the same size, shape and thickness as a pack of smokes. If you can imagine something that size over your drysuit sleeve you'll have a pretty good idea.

No question about it, though, the X-1 is far smaller.

[CaptnJack]

My pros for the x1 are its compactness and I don't know when or if i will ever go ccr. I do like the predator for its three color oled system. I would like to do a side by side dive one of these weekends. Trying to get my tek kit built

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You previously had an interest in DIR. Sorry we haven't been able to meet up and dive yet, but you won't need either computer for that. And if you had either, you'd probably need to put it in gauge mode for class. Neither GUE nor UTD uses wrist mounted computers. I don't really want to debate the merits of that here, just be advised its alot of money for something which may not be all that useful depending on your "path"

[kdupreez]

.. just be advised its alot of money for something which may not be all that useful depending on your "path"

Very true.. if you are curious about GUE or UTD training, my advice would be to do a few dives with some folks and decide if thats your path..

I ended up selling 3 expensive dive computers that were gathering dust after a few years of not using them.

As for the shearwater "glare" and bungees.. Those are just some issues to keep in mind that people who own them have mentioned.. I was teaching a GUE class this weekend and both students had shearwaters and I was not able to see their computers at angles, first-person views are probably perfectly fine. They size and weight of the unit looked like it could be tough to bungee them as I have never seen anyone bungee a predator before. (i know about 9 people who dive them).. But they do come with depth compensating straps.. (2 of them) so you probably dont need bungees..

be happy to get you all 3 to try and compare side by side on a dive..

[John Rawlings]

Richard and Koos speak good sense. If you think that you want to follow the GUE or UTD path, then it would be best for you to find out what those training programs encourage you to use before shelling out a LOT of bucks for a computer.

[ljjames]

http://narkedat90.com/shop/product/bungee_bracket/

[json]

Yes I still want to pursue DIR and team diving. I am not looking for a computer to dive for me. I believe you should know your tables and dive them and not rely on a computer. I would like to have a good deco computer for a redundant system though. I have been reading over, Fundamentals of Better Diving, good and informative book

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[Joshua Smith]

Yes I still want to pursue DIR and team diving. I am not looking for a computer to dive for me. I believe you should know your tables and dive them and not rely on a computer. I would like to have a good deco computer for a redundant system though. I have been reading over, Fundamentals of Better Diving, good and informative book

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Totally up to you, but if you're interest lies in DIR, the computer is a waste of money.

[lamont]

Totally up to you, but if you're interest lies in DIR, the computer is a waste of money.

I started out with a Suunto Vyper, dove it in computer mode for the first 100-150 dives, then switched it to gauge mode.

Basically it was around $100 extra for being able to watch it along side diving it in my head until I got comfortable with it and learned why computers can be annoying for myself, and turned off computer mode. That's a pretty popular path for DIR divers, and not really a waste of money.

Just don't go drop $2,000 on some multi-gas CCR-capable yadda yadda right out of the gate when you don't know what you're gonna eventually grow up to be.

These days, Uwatec Tec 2Gs or Hollis DG02s are nitrox-capable computers that don't break the bank and have entirely functional gauge mode. The Tec 2G is popular because it has resettable depth averaging. They don't have the sexy OLEDs, but you can very adequately dive with them.

Probably others, but I don't know them offhand, those were the ones I was looking at last time I was shopping around...

[CaptnJack]

Yes I still want to pursue DIR and team diving. I am not looking for a computer to dive for me. I believe you should know your tables and dive them and not rely on a computer. I would like to have a good deco computer for a redundant system though. I have been reading over, Fundamentals of Better Diving, good and informative book

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Well none of us "DIR" people are diving profiles all that similar to Buhlmann or VPM. Fortunately VPM is tolerant of DIR profile 'adjustments' for deeper stops and such, but Buhlmann is not at all.

Personally I haven't dove a computer in at least 7(?) years, just a gauge. If you showed up saying you were UTD or GUE trained using either computer in actual computer mode I'd probably raise my eyebrows a bit and we'd have to figure out some sort of commonalities. I am not sure how we'd accomodate a lost gas scenario, we'd probably figure it out for a shallower deco dive up to 150ish. Deeper I'd have my doubts if we really were on the same page.

I am pretty sure both Brian and Guy would force you to dive without a computer in computer mode for class. If you are diving without it in class and supposedly part of a team not using computers either, I'm not sure what purpose you are trying to fulfill? They do have pretty (and bright) screens.

You might want to wait until you've found a technical training path before spending this money. If you end up with GUE or UTD its not likely to be useful. If you end up with another instructor they will have their own preferences. And lastly, by the time you actually enroll in technical training there may be significant changes in the options anyway so why not see what's available once you actually need it?

[json]

Yes I still want to pursue DIR and team diving. I am not looking for a computer to dive for me. I believe you should know your tables and dive them and not rely on a computer. I would like to have a good deco computer for a redundant system though. I have been reading over, Fundamentals of Better Diving, good and informative book

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Well none of us "DIR" people are diving profiles all that similar to Buhlmann or VPM. Fortunately VPM is tolerant of DIR profile 'adjustments' for deeper stops and such, but Buhlmann is not at all.

Personally I haven't dove a computer in at least 7(?) years, just a gauge. If you showed up saying you were UTD or GUE trained using either computer in actual computer mode I'd probably raise my eyebrows a bit and we'd have to figure out some sort of commonalities. I am not sure how we'd accomodate a lost gas scenario, we'd probably figure it out for a shallower deco dive up to 150ish. Deeper I'd have my doubts if we really were on the same page.

I am pretty sure both Brian and Guy would force you to dive without a computer in computer mode for class. If you are diving without it in class and supposedly part of a team not using computers either, I'm not sure what purpose you are trying to fulfill? They do have pretty (and bright) screens.

You might want to wait until you've found a technical training path before spending this money. If you end up with GUE or UTD its not likely to be useful. If you end up with another instructor they will have their own preferences. And lastly, by the time you actually enroll in technical training there may be significant changes in the options anyway so why not see what's available once you actually need it?

Maybe I am jumping the gun and putting the cart before the horse. I have a very limited knowledge in the technical word right now. But with my dive master behind me I am building my kit to take the plunge. I need to find time to get out and dive with different people and styles of diving. To build some knowledge base to make a more informed decision on gear. My main concern was to have my own kit (technical) and be comfortable diving it before beginning training. Computer or not should effect me being comfortable and trimmed in the water. But hey that's why I ask others opinions.

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[loanwolf]

Their is one thing about Shearwater, you do not pay for upgrades unless it is a major hardware or second party software upgrade. If you had a old Pursuit the earlier LCD version of the computer for a very fair charge you could up date your computer to the Predator OELD. Tech updates and new software features will always be available to their customers free. Also as far as customer service I do not believe that any customer ever, even those of us that have taken the computer past its ratings has had to pay for a repair yet other than shipping no matter how hard we abused them.

It is a Gradient Factor (GF) computer out of the box witch means if you run it in nominal (GF99) it is as close as you can get to vers6 Navy tables (what is used by most commercial divers). Yes hard core for most recreational dives at that setting. But buy tweaking the GF +/- you have such a wide verity of different choices you have virtually unlimited flexibly to do what you want. You can also get it with VPM a 2nd party algorithm for a very fair price if you prefer that algorithm.

One thing it has that I really like is a GF99 setting that you can turn on that changes the Time to Surface (TTS) timer to a GF99 timer. Giving you the capability to have live data at a glance no thinking if needed in a emergency to use the Nominal GF99 to speed up deco. I had a very good chance to watch this get used last year. Mike cut his suit open in 42deg water after 45min at 300' he and his dive buddy omitted close to 1.5 hrs of deco using the GF99 verses the 10/90GF they usually dive. He was full blown hypothermia buy the time they got to the surface were we could render aid and warm him up. the next morning in his backup suit he was back in the water no problems.

Granted that is the extreme of extreme situations but how many times have you been sitting their at a safety/deco stop freezing your ass off and or needed to piss like hell and just bitching about how long you have left!!!!!example say the computer says 8min for the last stop and GF99 says 1, hmmm I have 2 number 1pushing GF99 limits the other 8min my safety factor time or anything else between to chose from. No thinking at all two nice big displayed numbers to chose from or somewhere in between. No thinking no math math in my head when you are stressed.

[BDub]

Maybe I am jumping the gun and putting the cart before the horse. I have a very limited knowledge in the technical word right now. But with my dive master behind me I am building my kit to take the plunge. I need to find time to get out and dive with different people and styles of diving. To build some knowledge base to make a more informed decision on gear. My main concern was to have my own kit (technical) and be comfortable diving it before beginning training. Computer or not should effect me being comfortable and trimmed in the water. But hey that's why I ask others opinions.

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A good starting point is doing exactly what you stated....get out and dive with different people. A) you're diving (always a plus), and B) you're getting exposure to different diving styles, allowing you to see what most fits your goals.

At the same time, if you do want to pursue technical training, start researching your instructor options. John Rawlings put up a comprehensive list of instructors in the Diving Education subforum.

Fortunately, you have many options locally. However, at this level, training & equipment is a considerable investment of money and time and to get the most out of it to help you meet your own goals, you need to do your research. This isn't an area where you just want to simply sign up for the next available class, regardless of who's teaching it.

At this point, you should be seeking out your instructor.

Any local technical instructor should be happy, and able, to thoroughly answer any questions you have regarding his/her training. I'd also suggest scheduling a time to hop in the water with each of them. This gives them to opportunity to see your present skill level and provide insight as to where they see you fitting in their curriculum as well as a path for you to prepare for that training. It gives you an opportunity to assess their skills in the water, and help you decide if they have the skills you aspire to learn.

After the dive, go grab a beer and chat. Every instructor has their own communication and teaching style. It's important that his/her teaching style is compatible with how you best learn. This chat is an excellent time to go over gear requirements...what they require, why they require it, etc, including use of a computer, bottom timer, tables, both, etc

[John Rawlings]

+1 to all that Brian said above.

Here's that link to the comprehensive list of tech instructors: http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9126

The only change that I see on the list is Matthew Den Haan. NW Sports Divers is now closed, (darn!), but Matt "might" still be teaching.

Lots of choices between agencies, instructors and styles to choose from. It's now "homework time" as you try your best to decide the direction that you want to go in your training....AND what equipment is best suited for that training.

Good luck!

John

[CaptnJack]

You might want to consider "intro to tech" (which has various names depending on the agency) before buying too much stuff, especially a $1200 computer. It would be a good chance to have a substantial chunk of one on one time with an instructor on your chosen path who can explain the equipment requirements and whys for their "next level". And not have too enormous of a gear or time commitment all up front.

I'm as guilty as anyone of buying tons of shiny toys though

I could go diving afterwork at Harper's sometime this week or next if you're free json.

[John Rawlings]

The only change that I see on the list is Matthew Den Haan. NW Sports Divers is now closed, (darn!), but Matt "might" still be teaching.

Matt is apparently still teaching as an independent instructor.