What O2 booster??

General topics about technical diving.
Post Reply
Tuna
Getting To Know Folks
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:10 pm

What O2 booster??

Post by Tuna »

I'm looking around at O2/HE boosters and want to know what other home fill stations are using.
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by CaptnJack »

ccr or oc?
how much are you looking fill? volume and rate
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
Tuna
Getting To Know Folks
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:10 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by Tuna »

OC diver. I also have a 9 cfm HP comperssor for drive air. Looking a haskel boosters but a bit lost.
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by CaptnJack »

Budget?

You can pump 100% helium in an oil lubed compressor. Not to super high pressures, but its pretty reasonable to suck out the dregs of a supply bottle after using the top half of its pressure to partial pressure blend. Top with 32% and you're done. 21/35, 18/45, whatever you want.

Although good luck getting any kind of helium in quantity right now anyway.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
User avatar
Jeff Pack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by Jeff Pack »

I was surprised, I called my local distributor for helium, expecting a long delay (especially with owner bottles) and had my bottles the following work day.
=============================================

- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
User avatar
kdupreez
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1724
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:27 am

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by kdupreez »

it very much depends on your requirements.

If money is not an object, the best of the best is a "Masterline" electric booster.. they are quiet and runs on electricity and is completely O2 clean. When I grow up, I'd love to have one of these.

Then when looking at pneumatic boosters, there are a few brands you can consider, with the most widely know being Haskell.

for the most part, you will want to look at air driven boosters in 3 configurations.

Single-Stage/Single-Action: (Model numbers start with AG) - These are the basic pneumatic boosters that uses low pressure drive air to boost source gas up to high pressure.. they use lots of drive gas and they are slow.. the output pressure depends on the ratio between the drive-gas piston and the output high-pressure piston.. The ratio is the number in the series.. i.e. AG15, AG30, AG75 , etc.. the lower the number, the lower the ratio and the lower the output pressure.. but the higher the output pressure, the higher the ratio between the drive-air and high pressure pistons, but that means slooow speeds.. for example an AG-30 is twice as fast as an AG75, but can boost to much less than half the pressure output pressure. Also, the bigger the difference in supply pressure to output pressure, the more drive gas pressure is required and the slower it boosts. depending on model, it can usually only effectively suck source gas down to about 400psi if you need a 3000psi output.. for Helium, thats a LOT of gas in the source tanks.. These are fine for rebreather diving, but they are a little slow for OC.

Single-Stage/Double-Action: This is the AGD (the D means Double Action) - this is essentially the EXACT the same as above, except it has 2 high pressure chambers, one on either side of the low pressure piston, but on each "action" or reciprocation of the low pressure piston, it boosts.. these are TWICE as fast as the above boosters, but also use twice the drive air volume. they are fast, but can only boost the same ratios as above and the same problem with waste source gas (350-400psi left in bottle..) They are fast and pump large volumes and good for OC, just gets a little slow when source tanks are low.. (I have one of these and they work just fine... )

Double-Stage/Double-Action: This is the AGT series (the T means Double sTage), These are GREAT dive boosters because they are essentially 2 single stage boosters connected in cascade and the one feeds into the other.. for example you can get a AGT 15/30 that can suck gas and compress it on the 15 side, then feeds it into the 30 side and compresses it more.. this means that you can have a HUGE difference in source gas and output gas pressures without losing too much effeciency.. disadvantage here is they are somewhat slow and uses lots of drive gas. but they are GREAT at scavanging source gas bottles.. you can easily suck a Helium tank down to 100psi with a 3000psi output.. These are best of both worlds and the best diving kind of booster you can find.

Now -ALL of the above boosters can be cleaned and serviced for Oxygen use.. BUT the service kits are expensive and you have to buy the kits per stage.. ie if you have an AGD or AGT, you need to buy 2 kits.. I paid about $600 for my O2 seal kit for my AGD30 last year..

Lets look at models.. and which are best for diving..

the 75 series have HUGE output and input pressures, like 20,000 psi.. but that means the HP piston is the size of my pinky and they are slow..

the 30 series is a good balance since they allow 9000psi input and output iirc. I have a AGD30 so its a double ended booster but single stage..

the 15 series is ok for low outputs and inputs and really large volumes.. 3000psi iirc..

now, you can start to combine these numbers when you look at AGT (Double Stage) boosters..

AGT 15/30 means it has a 15 on the one end and a 30 on the other, so source gas is no more than 3000psi and output is 9000psi max AND it cascades... this is the BEST booster you can buy for boosting Helium, Oxygen and Argon..

AGT 30/75 is good for boosting from higher pressure banks (up to 9000psi source) and can do 20,0000psi output...

So - in summary.. depending in your needs and budget.. the best booster for OC diving is AGT 15/30

But, all of them work, some are just more efficient than others..

Hope that explains it :)
Last edited by kdupreez on Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White
User avatar
kdupreez
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1724
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:27 am

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by kdupreez »

BTW - attached is a haskel data sheet that shows you exactly how they work, plus all the input and output and drive air specs.
Haskel Data Sheet.pdf
(3.62 MiB) Downloaded 187 times
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by CaptnJack »

I'd love a Masterline or an AGT 15/30. Maybe Boyd will sell me his Masterline cheap now that he's all Mr Yachty ;) If you have $7K these are the way to go.

That said, I also manage(d) to use a cascade and dive OC trimix with a mere mixing stick and a few regulators to put O2 or He into that mixing stick for over 5 years. No problem sucking down supply tanks to <50psi to be frugal too. I only really decided I wanted a booster for 100% O2 fills (I have a single stage Hydraulics International 1:20 model that I got used for $750). I don't even use it for helium at all, just to top Al40s from 2000 up to 2800-3000 psi.

Trimix does not = booster required at all.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
User avatar
BillZ
Aquanaut
Posts: 687
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:23 am

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by BillZ »

Richard and Koos -
I hear mixed messages when it comes to continuously blending HE - Some people say it is perfectly fine and others say HE is too light of a gas and will burn up your compressor. Have either of you had any compressor issues since you started CBing HE? Any rules of thumb that I'd need to follow?

Sorry for the hijack.....
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by CaptnJack »

BillZ wrote:Richard and Koos -
I hear mixed messages when it comes to continuously blending HE - Some people say it is perfectly fine and others say HE is too light of a gas and will burn up your compressor. Have either of you had any compressor issues since you started CBing HE? Any rules of thumb that I'd need to follow?

Sorry for the hijack.....
No issues. 100% He actually runs cooler than trimix (I have an IR thermometer to prove it), but trimix will heat up your cylinders more than air. This is in an oil lubed compressor. You will blow up an oiless compressor CBing high percentages of helium.

So, despite CBing for numerous years I now just run 100% helium when I need it - using the compressor as a booster. There's an old thread in TDS about this and my specifics but its also in the oxyhacker book. He calls it a "trashbag" booster. In my case I use either 100% He or trimix from a partial spent tank or tanks. I "built" a trashbag by drilling a hole in a wine cork and attaching a tube + vegetable bag. Cork goes in my mixing stick filter intake. As long as the bag is partially full my supply reg(s) are delivering gas at ambient. Obviously you need to stay close by to monitor. Looks like this.

Image

I only use the booster for HP O2 fills. I started doing much more 25/25 diving with O2 deco and wanted higher fills than I could accomplish with my 4x 125cf O2 bottle cascade. But I don't use the booster for He at all.
Last edited by CaptnJack on Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
User avatar
kdupreez
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1724
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:27 am

What O2 booster??

Post by kdupreez »

+1 what Richard said :)

trimix continues blending runs cooler in my compressor too.

I don't run pure HE trough mine since my built in filters will waste too much HE. buys lots of people do it.

Thats all that a Masterline really is.. it's small 2 cfm electric oil less hp compressor minus the first stage.. the input pressure is supplied already at LP that a normal compressors 1st stage will deliver.

mixing nitrox or tmx through a compressor is the way t go IMHO
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by CaptnJack »

PS you want to have an educated guess at home much your filters hold. You can figure it out with a ruler and calipers. Mine have ~12cf in them at 2400 psi. That's a 16" tower and a P0 filter. I don't drain them after pumping 100% or trimix through them, I just turn off the supply and switch to air or 32% as appropriate. The ~10 to 15 cf of helium (depending on when I stop adding) gets blown into the tanks and is part of my budgeted amount of He to add.

Not rocket science and you can get "close enough" pretty easily. I do recommend a He analyzer as you are mostly taking a series of educated guesses and its good to confirm you are in the plausible range. But a He analyzer is 10% of the price of a booster + drive gas compressor + water seperation/filteration.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
Tuna
Getting To Know Folks
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:10 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by Tuna »

Masterline is out of my price range. I was looking at an AGT-32/62 on ebay but it's not oxygen clean and that is getting up their in price too. I don't mind putting HE in my air compressor but it's the O2 that's the problem.

Lots of good information on here.. Thanks!!!
Tuna
Getting To Know Folks
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:10 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by Tuna »

Masterline is out of my price range. I was looking at an AGT-32/62 on ebay but it's not oxygen clean and that is getting up their in price too. I don't mind putting HE in my air compressor but it's the O2 that's the problem.

Lots of good information on here.. Thanks!!!
User avatar
pensacoladiver
I've Got Gills
Posts: 1350
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:00 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by pensacoladiver »

If you decide to look at hydraulics international boosters, give me a PM, I know a guy....

I got a deal on a group buy and am on the hook for one more.

I do the same as Richard, pump straight helium through the compressor. I use a HUGE trash bag and can get the supply bottle down to zero psi before the bag collapses and I have to shut down the compressor.

My filters hold 200 psi of helium when filling a set of hp100 dubs. I just shut if off 200 psi short and start cb 32 percent on top.

Works perfectly.
User avatar
cofford
Aquaphile
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 11:32 am

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by cofford »

I bought a Sprague booster for $500, O2 cleaned it myself, and called it good. I can't recommend using it for O2, but I vented the space between the pressurized sections to ambient and have had no issues. YMMV.
Powered by Puppies and Ice Cream.
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by CaptnJack »

Tuna wrote:Masterline is out of my price range. I was looking at an AGT-32/62 on ebay but it's not oxygen clean and that is getting up their in price too. I don't mind putting HE in my air compressor but it's the O2 that's the problem.

Lots of good information on here.. Thanks!!!
I switched my 2x 250 cf O2 bottles for 4x 125 cf O2s quit awhile ago. The costs are slightly more per cf but for 5 years I filled my AL40s of O2 with a mere cascade. 2100 psi (realistic max) in an Al40 is ample for all my <200ft diving. For the rare dive I wanted more I took them to a shop. 1100psi to make a EAN50 fill was easy too. The dregs I CBed into 32% and then I swapped the cylinder so I always had fullish ones on hand.

I have since bought a HI3 and the price was fine ($750 used) and its fairly easy to service. But its dinky and you wouldn't want to PP a set of doubles with it. It will fill an al40 but forget about scavenging a supply bottle to do it. As a single stage booster, its way better with a goodly supply pressure feeding it, >1200psi supply to make 2800-3000psi O2.

Are you continuous blending nitrox already?
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
Tuna
Getting To Know Folks
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:10 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by Tuna »

I do blend nitrox now.
I bank air and 32%.
I may have to go back and glue my mixing stick together so I can feed the He into it without blowing it apart..


COFFORD Said he bought a Sprague Booster, was that a new or used price.. Has to be used??
"I bought a Sprague booster for $500"
User avatar
CaptnJack
I've Got Gills
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:29 pm

Re: What O2 booster??

Post by CaptnJack »

What's your booster budget?

Obviously you can make due without one or make what you end up with work more or less...
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
Post Reply